Re: [Council] Community Awards: final results
 

Have you noticed how often you attack me for not using my N9?

Did you even read what I wrote?

I didn't attack you or make any statement against you, I used you as an example and you chose to ignore that.

I said numerous times you are deserving of the N950. Please pay attention to what I write instead of what you want to read.

Let me make this simple, irrelevant to what is, to help the success and longevity of this community, giving devices to those that are making things happen for the Harmattan camp would have been best.

Arguing with each other is pointless, but arguing with Woody is even worse.

To Estel: I don't read anything you write. You may mean well, but you are way too aggressive for a forum. The only cool headed counselors that are involved with the current council discussion here is ivgalvez and SD69. You and Woody are too combative for your own good.

Re: [Council] Community Awards: final results
 

I agree with all of this, but how does someone like itsnotabigtruck get an N9 from Nokia when he is writing programs like inception that aren't officially approved?

Do you see the flaw in that logic?

This was his only opportunity in that regard.

Maybe you should give your device to him....

Re: [Council] Community Awards: final results
 

But...he...already...has...a...development...devic e.

Why don't you give him one of your N9s?

Re: [Council] Community Awards: final results
 

He never received a development device... The only N9 he has is the one he spent money on....

I wasn't given my N9's by Nokia or some councilors... I had to pay hard earned cash for those...

Re: [Council] Community Awards: final results
 

But the crux of you argument is that these magic 'dev kits'* are in the hands of undeserving non coders who will not further Harmattan. You cite eyes and itsnotabigtruck as your examples. They have development devices already. They do not need more development devices in order to do what they do.

If you were however arguing that they deserve an award as recognition for their contribution then you might have had a point, but I just told you about it so you cant have that point, it is mine.

Are you implying that I am undeserving of a community award? Are you suggesting I should return my prize in disgust and rescind my maemo.org account?



*The notion of a 'dev kit' for harmattan no longer exists. Real Harmattan hardware is now available nullifying the N950s value as an exclusive Harmattan development device. In fact, with the N9 available the N950 is now a poor substitute.

Re: [Council] Community Awards: final results
 

I am arguing just that which is bolded.

They should have been given devices for Major contributions to the Harmattan community.

If at least itsnotabigtruck got a device. I would be silent and drop my complaints.

No not at all.

I am stating that the way these people were chosen was not fair. Itsnotabigtruck has made overclocking possible on the N9/N950, (I have tested both out)

As well as Mohammadag's unrestricted system UI, which so many people are lauding right now.

Without his inception (which is more efficient than open mode) we wouldn't have a work around for aegis like we do now.


Let me answer this separately, yes, I fully agree with this in some regards.

The N950 is not a practical daily phone, but as a test bed it is still amazing.

Edit: Last 2 lines added.

Re: [Council] Community Awards: final results
 

I don't know about Arie's position, but you should be able to hold on to your prize by virtue of the fact that you didn't have a conflict of interest.

The only Harmattan/Maemo device I have is an N9 that I paid full price for. Arie's correct in that this competition was the only way I (and others) could possibly obtain any sort of dev./award device based on non-conventional application work. However, all of that is beside the point that judges cannot possibly award themselves, or each other, with any objectivity at all.

Also, it would be nice if people on both sides would debate this with a bit more civility. :|

Edit: adjustments for clarity

Re: [Council] Community Awards: final results
 

Really? e-yes says he's not supporting the n950 in nitdroid since he won't get one but I guess you know better and he doesn't need it. I would say the n950 is a good development device because I use the terminal a lot and the onscreen keyboard and ssh via wifi is crap compared to a hardware keyboard. But, I guess I must be wrong. I should just believe everything you say, right?

Re: [Council] Community Awards: final results
 

Wtf. Are you high?

Re: [Council] Community Awards: final results
 

vi_ keep it civil. Do not attack Creamy Goodness, he is an esteemed member of the Maemo/Harmattan Community.

What he says has a lot of valid points.

Please consider looking at his side of the story before you make such comments.

Re: [Council] Community Awards: final results
 

@ZogG: You state that you didn't follow the submissions one by one. In fact you did, but too late. The councilors had their submission there and there was enough time to object. Checking the list and being unsatisfied with the results is easy.

@Everybody: There was a conflict of interest. Reading the submission list I was certain that all council members who nominated themselves will receive a device. I even tried to make a prediction for the results in a spreadsheet marking those I thought would get a devce in a blink and all the submitting councilors are in that list. The only reason I didn't object even though I saw it, was that they were the only ones in the list who had a democratic right for it. They have been chosen, exactly because of their past deeds by the community to represent it
I can argue forever for any other person in that list that he should, or not, receive a CA. But not for the council, as they have the absolute proof. The community votes.

And up to now, in this thread, nobody has claimed that the members of the council are unworthy of a device. All the discussion is a matter of procedure. If we did change the procedure and we do agree that council members deserve a device for their deeds, would the actual, tangible result be significantly different? No. The only difference would be that Woody would have gotten a device, and somebody else wouldn't.
So let's stop this discussion now unless someone comes here and points a council member who does not deserve a device by name. And before someone does that, please think what it does mean for the community and the democratic process.

Re: [Council] Community Awards: final results
 

No. But I seriously wonder why the community device program awarded you a device, since nobody wants to update the wiki or provide minutes. You speak in a very condescending manner to anyone that you don't agree with. I sure wouldn't have voted for you.

Re: [Council] Community Awards: final results
 

Only have a few minutes, so I'm replying to what I can:

I've already cited the meeting minutes where this was discussed. It was also stated in the TMO thread on this topic

It was, on many occasions. Both on TMO, in IRC, and in council meetings.

I agree on both points. To clarify, the reason I felt exempt from that was because I have just started in my role as Council, and this was for past contributions. :)

Re: [Council] Community Awards: final results
 

I don't think you deserve any award. For past activity, but more important, your award submission. It was repulsive. You're the resident smart aleck - good job.

I've reported two people in two years for harmful behavior on this forum. You are one of them (although I will say your behavior did improve smartly once the award program began :) )

Re: [Council] Community Awards: final results
 

Re: [Council] Community Awards: final results
 

AND THAT'S MORE USEFUL THAN INCEPTION HOW?!?!?!?!?!?!

Maybe I'm blind, but come on how is that possible.

Re: [Council] Community Awards: final results
 

I disagree to some extent. My decision was partially based on conflict of interest, in that I did not merit an award and knew if I applied that my current position could have been cause (eg a "pity" vote).

Most on the Council have been very active community members in their own rights, both on Council and off. To say they could not apply because they volunteered to take on one of the hardest jobs you can take for this community would be wrong.

False. The rules and questions about this were in the TMO forum well before Council elections occurred. For example, this is part of a thread that started in April, dated May 5th. I'll note to you that elections for Council happened May 17th through the 23rd.

This was not something put in after Council was in place, but was actively discussed before the event.

And you know this how? Telepathic abilities? Spy drones? I note again, if it was *just me* voting, there would be only 3 differences. Are you so sure that e-yes, or yourself, would have been in that 3?

Re: [Council] Community Awards: final results
 

Damn well we are, you know as well as the rest of everyone else that e-yes and itsnotabigtruck are well deserving of Community Awards.

Re: [Council] Community Awards: final results
 

A satisfactory compromise from my point of view would be if the council members in question would agree to return the devices to the council if they ever leave their posts.

Re: [Council] Community Awards: final results
 

Just like Nokia loaned out the original N950's?

Come on, let's be honest, no council before was given awards and this council didn't deserve them either.

Re: [Council] Community Awards: final results
 

Estel stated that he'd "discuss" a change in protocol in a TMO post dated the day after the program was announced: the change that allowed every councilor who wanted one to claim a prize for himself. No announcement was made, and few noticed - until now, after the damage has been done and the motivations have been made clear.

Re: [Council] Community Awards: final results
 

No disrespect to INABT, but he's been a member here for 4 months, and while Inception is huge, if I had to vote for a worthy home for a dev device, it would have been elsewhere.

On the topic of e-yes, yes this guy is a genius, but is there really a need for Android on the n950 (the argument put forward earlier)? I mean seriously WTF?

Re: [Council] Community Awards: final results
 

It's not just a test bed or developer device. It is a practical
daily phone, the same way as N9 or N900 are.

Re: [Council] Community Awards: final results
 

Inception is big enough to make aegis obsolete, of course it's huge.

E-yes, along with itsnotabigtruck deserve devices.

They are both doing grey area things and this was their only way to get a free device from Nokia.

Re: [Council] Community Awards: final results
 

It's not, I have used mine many times and it is lacking in solid stable cellular reception.

Re: [Council] Community Awards: final results
 

A warning to the new members on this thread, the usual trick on here is they group up on you and when you got enough of the people in dispute online they will start the charade in force, be strong and stick to your guns.

If youdont they will try to walk all over you, take note of the thanks on these people it will give you an idea who the "group" are.

Re: [Council] Community Awards: final results
 

calm down abill_uk it is not the new world order :D

EDIT : but you got a good point ;)

Re: [Council] Community Awards: final results
 

Well, maybe over the years he's helped more people than itsnotabigtruck. itsnotabigtruck & e-yes are at a big disadvantage because their contributions probably annoy Nokia. The one hope for them getting a real reward officially from the community was this competition, so of course some of us expected them to get something from it. It's not the end of the world, though. I don't really want to make a fuss about the decisions made, it's not possible to satisfy everyone. If I get another n950 I will send it to one of those guys for sure though.

Re: [Council] Community Awards: final results
 

Me and you both.

Itsnotabigtruck deserves an N9 or N950.

Re: [Council] Community Awards: final results
 

A> Please stop spreading FUD.
B> Stop changing your story.

Perhaps if you actually read the e-mail, and the follow ups to it, you would see the truth. (No, really... I took the time to find it, so please, at least read it and it's replies...)

While you're reading it, notice the date. Your previous statement that:

Is WRONG. This "change" happened in April, weeks before Council elections, and over a month before submissions started. Estel was a candidate for Council at that point, one of 7 at the time. Aries was also part of the nomination group

It was re-discussed at least 3 more times, on TMO, in IRC, and at Council meetings to make it widely known, and to completely clarify that the decision, made in April, months before, had not changed. And in fact, Arie took part in this discussion. So to claim it was an unknown until now? Really? It was known by all candidates, whom all chimed in on this topic in early May.

Edit: I think I see your confusion now. You seem to think the "announcement" Estel is talking about is his announcement as Council about CA. It's not. It's the announcement by Quim of the award contests back in April. But then you'd have to involved in the community to know that I suppose...

Re: [Council] Community Awards: final results
 

I am trying to propose a compromise; ulfimate justice is not possible. Make up your own proposal if you wish.

BTW: I'm not reading Abills posts, so no agreement or disagreement with him should be assumed by anyone.

I think that papering over tbe disagreement and moving on is the best thing to do, unless someone feels that their 200 votes makes them all-powerful and not needing to make a deal.

Re: [Council] Community Awards: final results
 

Well we agree on one thing, it seems we've found common ground, now tell me why was vi_ given an N950 over itsnotabigtruck or e-yes?

Re: [Council] Community Awards: final results
 

You want minutes? I gave them to you already, in the form of the process we used.

What you really want is exact, personal discussions on each person, which frankly no... you won't get. You don't get that at most competitions. Do you see the individual votes for every contestant, and the reasoning for it from each judge at every competition you see? This is not American Idol or Dancing with the Stars.

Re: [Council] Community Awards: final results
 

And I saved the best for last... (or rather put all of one persons stuff into one large reply).

Then accept the winners as they are. As I noted, only 3 in the list would have been different, and none would have been people you've championed for here.

And N9 only runs Harmattan, right? It can't possibly run other flavors of OS. Perhaps his goal is to work elsewhere in the community around N9. Or perhaps he'll just use it as a phone, like the thousands of other people out there. Wouldn't that be something...

Because he's deserving. Period. That was the merit of this competition. As for the FUD about this being "one of the last kits", I'll not there are 3 other competitions upcoming, ALL of which have plenty of devices.

No.. he was quite calm and collected actually. He articulated his concern, based on things people actually said. He made no assumptions, and didn't attack people personally as you've been doing.

He's wrong in thinking (like you and so many others here) that this was an award for future work, or for potential help to a specific community. But other then that, he was quite nice about his concerns.

He also didn't claim he was the grand puhba of Harmattan, or that disagreeing with him implied I was some how taking a dump on everyone with an N9 in their pocket... Just saying...

Re: [Council] Community Awards: final results
 

A> Stop demanding things.
B> I and at least one other Council have already said we will not be discussing or answering anything in the form of "why didn't X get one over Y". This is a dead horse, and a dead end.

Have a nice weekend. :)

Re: [Council] Community Awards: final results
 

Why would you ask me to compare to the real world and at the same time you refuse to do whats done on most of the real world competition.

Re: [Council] Community Awards: final results
 

It has been said that current members of Council need up to date devices to properly represent the membership. My proposal, that ownership be returned to Council when a recipient stops being a member of Council, is specifically designed to respond to that argument.

Re: [Council] Community Awards: final results
 

Did this ever happen? I thought the main worry was that previously Fremantle devs would sway to Harmattan.

Re: [Council] Community Awards: final results
 

Since this is an open community I don't see why Community Council have problems to disclose the method used to rank and select winners.

The "no I wont let you know why we choose X" answers are not really helping at all. I think the people just ask for a transparent process and it shouldn't be hard to do that.

Re: [Council] Community Awards: final results
 

I frankly doubt that answers on why x was chosen over y would be that informative, or quell any controversy.