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-   -   [Council] Community Awards: final results (https://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=85003)

abill_uk 2012-06-23 01:36
Re: [Council] Community Awards: final results
 
See what i mean ? you now got a trio going and the reason Woody has stepped back in with his condescending rude attitude is because he has people now backing him so to give him the courage and the rest follow him.

(like the wording in red as if he is laying the law down here but oh hang on a minute he is council he can do this and get away with it ? because his pals have stepped in to help him)

The facts are that quite a few people are upset by this council and the way they have conducted themselves from the off by giving themselves the prized gifts that real developers on here are just not going to get.

This council really do need to do something to rectify the problems or they will not be looked upon on this community in a good way.

I suggest someone starts a thread with a voting to either get the council to do something about the rigged prize process and to see if the community members wish to have another election to sort this out once and for all if it can not be resolved but i tell you this council if it does not do something is finished and will gain no respect at all from here on from me and most likely a whole lot of others too.

This mess will for sure tarnish this community if it is passed over with no action.

itsnotabigtruck 2012-06-23 01:44
Re: [Council] Community Awards: final results
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by geneven (Post 1225999)
It has been said that current members of Council need up to date devices to properly represent the membership. My proposal, that ownership be returned to Council when a recipient stops being a member of Council, is specifically designed to respond to that argument.
In a matter of weeks there won't be a council, and no one will be returning anything to anyone. Such a plan wouldn't be much of an improvement.

Quote:
Originally Posted by woody14619 (Post 1225989)
You want minutes? I gave them to you already, in the form of the process we used.

What you really want is exact, personal discussions on each person, which frankly no... you won't get. You don't get that at most competitions. Do you see the individual votes for every contestant, and the reasoning for it from each judge at every competition you see? This is not American Idol or Dancing with the Stars.
Meeting minutes and "the process" are two very different things.

Quote:
Originally Posted by somedude (Post 1225993)
Why would you ask me to compare to the real world and at the same time you refuse to do whats done on most of the real world competition.
Dead on. No competition that even pretends to have some level of legitimacy allows the judges to claim the awards for themselves.

It's a shame those involved aren't interested in rectifying this in a dignified fashion.

abill_uk 2012-06-23 01:51
Re: [Council] Community Awards: final results
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by woody14619 (Post 1225992)
A> Stop demanding things.
B> I and at least one other Council have already said we will not be discussing or answering anything in the form of "why didn't X get one over Y". This is a dead horse, and a dead end.

Have a nice weekend. :)
WOW never in all my time on this community have i ever seen such selfishness from a what should be a respected council and community member !!.

Woody he is only asking for answers and not demanding anything for gods sake what is the matter with you huh.

I tell you what if this was my answer you have just given i would be in deep shitt over it and probably get banned but YOU will probably get away with it no doubt.

This whole affair is now getting sick and with this kind of talk from a member of council on this community where is this all going???.

I now formally ask Reggie to look at this because i feel it is disgusting talk from a council member of this community.

Arie 2012-06-23 02:01
Re: [Council] Community Awards: final results
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by woody14619 (Post 1225992)
A> Stop demanding things.
B> I and at least one other Council have already said we will not be discussing or answering anything in the form of "why didn't X get one over Y". This is a dead horse, and a dead end.

Have a nice weekend. :)
I am done with you, you are an utter joke and disrespect to what maemo.org stands for.

I want you officially removed as a council member.

This kind of response is not appropriate, you contradict yourself and then take to putting me down?

SD69, you still have my respect as a council member, as a Councillor, do something about his behavior, he is not giving a good showing on how people in power should behave.

geneven 2012-06-23 02:11
Re: [Council] Community Awards: final results
 
I don't think anyone has the right to say "I want you removed as a council member" and therefore have them removed..
My goodness, I have rarely see such a pack of egotists.

Arie 2012-06-23 02:15
Re: [Council] Community Awards: final results
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by geneven (Post 1226034)
I don't think anyone has the right to say "I want you removed as a council member" and therefore have them removed..
My goodness, I have rarely see such a pack of egotists.
You don't get the point of what I have said, pay extremely close attention to what I have said, it will become clear.

His behavior is not right for someone in power.

gerbick 2012-06-23 02:18
Re: [Council] Community Awards: final results
 
Let's all take a break, pull back and calm down.

And btw... I'll gladly take a N950 if you have a guilty conscience. I'll even pay for the shipping.

I'm serious. The completist in me needs to complete the Maemo/MeeGo set.

thedead1440 2012-06-23 02:22
Re: [Council] Community Awards: final results
 
let's calm down a bit here...Arie didn't mean it in an offensive way...what he's trying to imply is that although woody is Council he should be maintaining civility of the highest order especially when there are ppl (both esteemed and new) against the Council's decisions...

I think its sad that it has to come to the point where the Council feels that this is a dead horse and dead end when some further explanation is being seeked which may or may not be provided by the Council. We respect them for their decisions but in an open community I think further transperancy in decision-making would do nobody harm...

Estel 2012-06-23 02:32
Re: [Council] Community Awards: final results
 
Arie, honestly, You really think that You can "demand" here anything? If I recall correctly, you've been candidate for Council, and wasn't elected. Thanks goodness for Community wisdom :)

honestly, i don't know who You're - as per my knowledge, You're not developer, NOR important Community contributor for maemo.org, Mer, Harmattan, or whatever. Not that it change anything, anyway - if *You* think Woody isn't good Councilor, don't vote for him in next election. Instead, chose someone, who will suit Your taste (i.e. apply for Council, then abandon maemo at first sign of Nokia collapsing).

BTW, You've also turned out to be ridiculously unreasonable person - to the point of troll showing here and there, shouting loudly, *not* reading answer, and demanding things. Welcome in my ignore list - I'm sure You will feel comfortable with few "individuals" there.
---

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZogG (Post 1225903)
Ibut do not check all maillist and tmo posts, it doesnt mean it's my fault.
No, it is Your fault. Sorry, one of differences between meritocracy and - wrongly understood - democracy, is that here You don't choose representatives, then sit on your sofa without caring about anything for next 4 or 5 years (because you've already chosen someone to blame for your laziness). If You can't get CA rules from April till now - discussed and announced via mailing list, TMO, and IRC - it's Your freaking problem. Period. Shouting now, no matter how loud, won't change *single* thing.

Same apply for geneven proposition - sorry mate, there was time, when whole concept of CA (who will decide, why, and how criteria will look like) was decided, and You "ingenious" idea of passing devices every 6 months to new Council could be proposed there. Frankly, I'm sure it wouldn't meet *any* positive feedback - as it's impractical, and, honestly, quite pointless - but anyway, You had right to propose it.

Then. Not now.
---

And, again - despite fact, that ones still not getting it, just don't want to listen - CA awards are not meant to boost xyz development, at least, not directly. CA awards aren't tool to help council/JoeTheBastard/whoever in his role for the Community - again, at least not directly. etc, etc.

Have complains about CA merit now, after project is essentially finished? Really awesome timing, feel free to direct them to /dev/null now.
---

For everyone that want direct answer on "why person x was awarded, and person y not" - no problem fellas, here is Your answer:
"Because Council in it's discretion - as per CA rules - decided that this person's Contributions to Community were big enough to receive prize".

It's quite universal answer, so fell free to use it anytime, when You're wondering why someone actively contributing to community for years, got award over guy registered 4 months ago and being "known" for one random project (or not). You can even memorize this answer, as You *won't* be getting any other. Period.

/Estel

Ps.

If this thread will continue to be "outcry" from 4 - literally, 4 people - who are either sad that they haven't received "freebie" (isnotabigtruck, I'm looking at You - BTW, Your behavior proves even more, that You shouldn't get *any* CA award), is sad overall, no matter of topic (Arie), don't want to participate in Community discussion, but want to decide about everything - most likely, after it's made already (ZogG, BTW, another example of someone sad for not getting device?...), or doesn't necessary know what want already (Creamy), it will only result in closing this topic.

every single argument have been said already, at least 8 times. If You don't have anything new to add, don't write. You do - don't get mad, when mods will take care of this sh|tstorm. you don't want to congratulate winners - your problem. But don't expect, that we will be wasting time, to repeat same thing over and over, to satisfy few angry kids.

/Estel

geneven 2012-06-23 02:33
Re: [Council] Community Awards: final results
 
Arie:

At your request I went back and carefully read about the last 20 of your posts. My opinion stands.

itsnotabigtruck 2012-06-23 02:37
Re: [Council] Community Awards: final results
 
We all need to keep a cool head - doing otherwise isn't helping anyone's case. However, it's certainly the case that having a seat on the council comes with an expectation of behavior beyond reproach. That's the problem with both the responses on this forum thread, and the awarding of the phones in the first instance.

Since woody14619, in any case, decided against nominating himself for an award, I'd like to see Estel/SD69/ivgalvez/nieldk, as well as Mr. Gil, get involved.

As long as Nokia hasn't actually shipped the phones, it's not too late. It's only expected that those that stand to benefit from the status quo disagree.

Arie 2012-06-23 02:46
Re: [Council] Community Awards: final results
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by geneven (Post 1226042)
Arie:

At your request I went back and carefully read about the last 20 of your posts. My opinion stands.
Geneven, why argue with people who are fools? It's clear that woody and estel are fools, I have no intention of arguing anything logical with either of them, btw, estel has been on my ignore list for awhile, woody, is next, two Councillors... that's impressive.

sifo 2012-06-23 02:50
Re: [Council] Community Awards: final results
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arie (Post 1226044)
Geneven, why argue with people who are fools? It's clear that woody and estel are fools, I have no intention of arguing anything logical with either of them, btw, estel has been on my ignore list for awhile, woody, is next, two Councillors... that's impressive.
now you need to calm down would you if i send you an N9 ?.
no offense man but respect should always be an existing thing :o !

Arie 2012-06-23 02:52
Re: [Council] Community Awards: final results
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by sifo (Post 1226046)
now you need to calm down would you if i send you an N9 ?.
no offense man but respect should always be an existing thing :o !
Yes, since both woody and estel have been extremely respectful of me right?

sifo 2012-06-23 02:54
Re: [Council] Community Awards: final results
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arie (Post 1226047)
Yes, since both woody and estel have been extremely respectful of me right?
if they were not then you dont need to do like them ;)

Arie 2012-06-23 02:57
Re: [Council] Community Awards: final results
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by sifo (Post 1226048)
if they were not then you dont need to do like them ;)
Since I am a Councillor, I don't have to be at a higher standard than most.

itsnotabigtruck 2012-06-23 02:58
Re: [Council] Community Awards: final results
 
Please, drop it! This constant provocation isn't getting anyone anywhere.

I find it curious that you'd like to talk about "meritocracy", Estel. I'll leave it at that.

GeXX 2012-06-23 02:58
Re: [Council] Community Awards: final results
 
Can't we all get along...

Sent from my Razr Maxx which isn't a dead platform.

sifo 2012-06-23 02:59
Re: [Council] Community Awards: final results
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arie (Post 1226050)
Since I am a Councillor, I don't have to be at a higher standard than most.
it is ok but what would change after all ? of course they are not giving the awards back ;)

Arie 2012-06-23 03:01
Re: [Council] Community Awards: final results
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by sifo (Post 1226053)
it is ok but what would change after all ? of course they are not giving the awards back ;)
More transparency, and the Councillors shouldn't be so agressive, they aren't dealing with former taliban fighters...

We are people and when we question we aren't looking to harm, we want clarity.

This situation had none of it.

geneven 2012-06-23 03:05
Re: [Council] Community Awards: final results
 
Actually, I have a lot of respect for both of them. I voted for one, but not the other, and I won't say why.I had a lot of hope for this council, but not much now.

GeXX 2012-06-23 03:07
Re: [Council] Community Awards: final results
 
Soo.. You are all fighting over a dead platform, made by a company who's ceo is good at dodging flying chairs? You all should rename this forum wp8 and call the council Steve Balmer Council with all the *****ing and whining going on.

Arie 2012-06-23 03:07
Re: [Council] Community Awards: final results
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by geneven (Post 1226055)
Actually, I have a lot of respect for both of them. I voted for one, but not the other, and I won't say why.I had a lot of hope for this council, but not much now.
Let me take a guess, you didn't vote for Estel.... You're not the only one.

sifo 2012-06-23 03:08
Re: [Council] Community Awards: final results
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arie (Post 1226054)
More transparency, and the Councillors shouldn't be so agressive, they aren't dealing with former taliban fighters...

We are people and when we question we aren't looking to harm, we want clarity.

This situation had none of it.
yes you got a good point with that but opps we are late ! for real why not saying anything when the councilers nominated themselves ? well for me i get shocked when i read that in the mailing list "how could they be nominated and they are the judges " then i had a headache and went to sleep :D

Arie 2012-06-23 03:09
Re: [Council] Community Awards: final results
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by sifo (Post 1226058)
yes you got a good point with that but opps we are late ! for real why not saying anything when the councilers nominated themselves ? well for me i get shocked when i read that in the mailing list "how could they be nominated and they are the judges " then i had a headache and went to sleep :D
They're treating me like a former taliban fighter, I couldn't care less what they say anymore.

thedead1440 2012-06-23 03:10
Re: [Council] Community Awards: final results
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by geneven (Post 1226055)
Actually, I have a lot of respect for both of them. I voted for one, but not the other, and I won't say why.I had a lot of hope for this council, but not much now.
that's the sad part...why does the council lose respect of the community? due to their flawed procedure and subsequent defences...Arie raised some valid points...even in the discussion thread for CA some ppl raised the issue of mailing lists not being the place to discuss the awards but they were more or less shut up with how TMO was a place with 50+ pages and whiners...

If this issue was very publicly raised i don't think the Council would have got the community's acceptance in applying for themselves too...anyway thats my 2pence and not an attack...

thedead1440 2012-06-23 03:19
Re: [Council] Community Awards: final results
 
i'd like to pose a question to everyone...while we all know what has happened was not to everyone's liking...what are the solutions that could rectify the matter? maybe if we present a compelling case to the council on the basis of an agitated community, they might be cool-headed and think it thro'

sifo 2012-06-23 03:24
Re: [Council] Community Awards: final results
 
im so sad i didnt won i nominated my self man i made the test-script :'(
:p after i checked some applies of the winners i got over heated for some :D

itsnotabigtruck 2012-06-23 03:24
Re: [Council] Community Awards: final results
 
To get back to the point...

Quote:
Originally Posted by itsnotabigtruck (Post 1225858)
This situation is the essence of a conflict of interest, and the only acceptable solution at this point is for the awards to the councilors, at the very minimum, to be cancelled. Anything else is to render the whole matter a farce. I don't understand how anyone on this forum could find it reasonable to allow the judges of a competition, one intended to acknowledge valuable contributions to Maemo (including Harmattan), to loot it for their own personal gain.
No one from the council has attempted to defend such an action - only to present it as a fait accompli that can't be changed. That isn't the case, and no one should stand for it.

This isn't about netting myself a phone - now that I'm involved in the dispute, claiming I should have received one would be to render myself a hypocrite. What it is about is correcting the situation and making it apparent that this "council" puts itself ahead of the community it claims to represent.

Quote:
Originally Posted by thedead1440 (Post 1226061)
i'd like to pose a question to everyone...while we all know what has happened was not to everyone's liking...what are the solutions that could rectify the matter? maybe if we present a compelling case to the council on the basis of an agitated community, they might be cool-headed and think it thro'
Cancel the awards to the councilors and:
  • Call a popular vote to select the recipients, or
  • Reapportion them to the coding competition, or
  • Award them to Harmattan contributors, who were categorically ignored by the judges, or
  • Anything besides this

sifo 2012-06-23 03:42
Re: [Council] Community Awards: final results
 
@itsnotabigtruck

are you gonna take the award back if you were insted of the coucilors you are talking about ? i guess not and nobody gonna do such a thing unless he knows the he will be dead in the next day :D

thedead1440 2012-06-23 03:48
Re: [Council] Community Awards: final results
 
sifo, why not? i mean if you can see the community being agitated with the council's decision i'm sure anyone in their shoes would like to take a step back and think of their duty to the community above themselves...

i think the council didn't expect opposition and now that they faced it initially with just some complaints they went into defensive mode...i'm sure if the council think over this in a calm and collective way they would be willing to hear the community out and maybe not only rescind their awards but all the awards and ask the community for what procedure should be followed instead.

Arie 2012-06-23 03:48
Re: [Council] Community Awards: final results
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by sifo (Post 1226066)
@itsnotabigtruck

are you gonna take the award back if you were insted of the coucilors you are talking about ? i guess not and nobody gonna do such a thing unless he knows the he will be dead in the next day :D
http://lists.maemo.org/pipermail/mae...ay/005266.html

itsnotabigtruck 2012-06-23 03:51
Re: [Council] Community Awards: final results
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by sifo (Post 1226066)
@itsnotabigtruck

are you gonna take the award back if you were insted of the coucilors you are talking about ? i guess not and nobody gonna do such a thing unless he knows the he will be dead in the next day :D
It's impossible to know the outcome of a "what-if" scenario, but I would never allow myself to be eligible for a competition I was organizing. There's a reason no contest is ever run that way.

If each phone is valued at $400 - a reasonable value given the current online prices - the council was responsible for $10000 worth of merchandise in this one program. The phones that the council reaped for themselves were worth $1600. While that isn't a massive sum, it's far more than enough to demand accountability. The council has shown anything but that.

sifo 2012-06-23 04:04
Re: [Council] Community Awards: final results
 
i think after a while im gonna hear " this counilore got another account in maemo.org and get himself 2 awards :D"

@itsnotabigtruck Arie

both of you right :)

Estel 2012-06-23 04:17
Re: [Council] Community Awards: final results
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by itsnotabigtruck (Post 1226063)
To get back to the point...



No one from the council has attempted to defend such an action - only to present it as a fait accompli that can't be changed.
False. Just carefully reading adversaries responses, would bring You to my 1st post int his thread, where I've written - from memory - that meritocracy won, because - as suggested by the Community - we were judging people Contributions by merit, not by fact that someone is/was/was candidate for Council. For same reasons, we were not considering if someone is black, white, or magenta, or do many typos, while writing posts ;)

BTW, it's quite funny, that 4 people mentioned by me earlier - who are making this whole noise - would like to actually *punish* people volunteering for Community, by banning them from CA program.

*Of course* It was also mentioned earlier. But, why I'm writing this? "Trolling 4" aren't reading responses, anyway. This sole fact doesn't seem to change, no matter if in last trolling attempt, they've just throw accusations left and right, or tried to sound more reasonable.

/Estel

Ps.

Why the hell, You though that it was fait accompli? I see it as way that turned out to work very well. It seems, that majority agree or doesn't care, and you're not entitled to call it fait accompli just because You and other 3 frustrated guys are not satisfied.

and, before You ask - *no*, we're not going to make precedences, by giving answer to demands of those that shout louder, for long enough. It was already said, that detail + and - of every candidate considered by Council won't be released, and process *won't* be reverted/started from scratch/whatever. Like it or not.

Considering current situation with Nokia, we have *much* more important things to do. I'm sure that our - Councilors - contributions will be judged by Community, on next voting (if any of us is going to start again, considering amount of hard work being Councilor require). Then it will be Your time to try "negative marketing" ;) If You haven't noticed, I couldn't care less - first of all, i believe in wisdom of Community (as a whole). Second, Councilor or not, i'll continue with my projects contributing to Maemo, this way, or another.

Happy flaming, kids. Take Your time.

/Estel

itsnotabigtruck 2012-06-23 04:21
Re: [Council] Community Awards: final results
 
You're only serving to prove my point.

I would also suggest you read the definition of fait accompli; it seems that what I said and what you think I said are two different things.

sifo 2012-06-23 04:24
Re: [Council] Community Awards: final results
 
@Estel

i knew you were writing another newspaper while we posting i was waiting for your answer :)
good points too

./sifo

Arie 2012-06-23 04:26
Re: [Council] Community Awards: final results
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by sifo (Post 1226080)
@Estel

i knew you were writing another newspaper while we posting i was waiting for your answer :)
good points too

./sifo
If I ever meet you, I'll buy you a beer, you're a cool dude.

Estel 2012-06-23 04:28
Re: [Council] Community Awards: final results
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by itsnotabigtruck (Post 1226079)
You're only serving to prove my point.

I would also suggest you read the definition of fait accompli; it seems that what I said and what you think I said are two different things.
Not exactly - I just wanted to highlight, that You're trying to show it as something that happened, without any respect for others seeing it as best consensus.

Anyway, feel free to believe in whatever You want - I'm also convinced even more, that our selection of winners was very good, and saved Community for donating devices to few unresponsible and unreasonable people.

I'm sure, that You enjoy this fact as much as I do :) This thread is more or less dead to me, anyway.

/Estel

Ps.

And please, stop imposing, that "being councilor mean You need to act <whatever". I appreciate input, and I always *listen* (read) reasonable advices with much interest, but, like it or not, I'm going to realize my vision of being Councilor. Community will judge that, [i]if[/] I'm going to candidate next time.

Furthermore, during being a candidate, I've told - many times - that I'm not going to pretend, that I'm someone else, if I win election. Even better, I've ensured, that Community will be aware of both how I Communicate with productive, reasonable people, and how I answer to trolls, on threads,where every single sentence was rephrased 8-10-12 times, already.

But how can You know that? You're member since 4 months, trying to force Your vision of how Community/council/everything should work. and, of course, who should *not* receive devices from CA ;)

sifo 2012-06-23 04:38
Re: [Council] Community Awards: final results
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arie (Post 1226081)
If I ever meet you, I'll buy you a beer, you're a cool dude.
OFF than OFF TOPIC

thanks and i will do the same but you buy first :D


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