Re: Nokia's Backup Plan
 

Nokia lost indeed a lot of its glory. Elops "burning plattform"-statement just prepared their "ecosystem" (meaning partners, shareholders) to change to Windows Phone. The problem I see is, that WP is not a good system, the problems I see is a) that Microsoft has no clue what they are doing (I predict W8 to fail - to big of a change and since WP8 is linked to W8 it's gonna fail aswell) b) Nokia used to be known for its inventions - now they ended up as a OEM...
The plan be I see is ditching eflop and go back to any *nix based device. MeeGo is a good system, but their are lots of other promising possibllities out their (maybe the two CEO striken companys Nokia and HP get together and well cure eachother). Anyway I just went and bought another N900, it is a great device and imho the only free option right now (yes Android is open source but don't be fooled - it's way too close to google).
For now please stop dooming Nokia and see how it's rolling on... Yes they made some pretty ******* decision, but Nokia is still a name and since handhelds are not their only business, they still got time...

For the sake of the community and iventions like QT let's hope they start build different devices soon. Remember even if the rumors are true and they have to wait 3 years to manufacture new devices: One year already is over and to invent a new decent device (in the way Nokia always did) takes a lot of time - the Purreview 808 just proofed that they are still inventing.

So sit back, enjoy the ride and buy some Nokia stocks 8-)


My two cents,
blck

Re: Nokia's Backup Plan
 

Anything can happen, but some things are more likely than others.

Palm: Nice devices, **** OS but fast and light. Market share, maybe 1% globally? Key ecosystem: apps, PIM

WM: Same as Palm

Symbian: Same as Palm, but has developed into a rather nice OS, too little too late though. Key ecosystem: Maps, apps, PIM

Android: Key ecosystem: Apps, maps, search, Google analytics, hacking community.

Apple: Key ecosystem: Apps, Music

Baidu: Key ecosystem: Sky storage, sky integration.

RIM: Key ecosystem: Corporate mail, corporate messenger. corporate .... RIP

Maemo: Piggyback on Symbian. Key ecosystem: piggybacking

Tizen: Key ecosystem: ??? web?

WP: Key ecosystem: personal communication ++, failed by poor OS.

WP8: Key ecosystem: Personal communication, tight integration with MS PC/Tablet, maps, PIM, music, movies, apps, sky storage and integration, corporate service ++, integration of games (PC/Xbox)


I hate to admit it, but WP8 may actually be it (from an ecosystem point of view). WP8 tries to include everything. NT is also a capable OS, and the UI is excellent (boring but excellent). Samsung, Nokia, HTC and Huawei making devices. We will see, they have an awful lot to catch up, and it may be too much even for MS.

Samsung, HTC and Huaway produces what? 80-90% of all Android devices. Still they believe in WP8 enough to make several devices each. Nokia has gone all in. They can't all be complete idiots even if Elop is. What I mean is that Elop may be a complete jerk, WP7 may be a complete fail, Maemo could have been so much more etc etc. Still, looking with objective eyes, the potential upside with WP8 is larger than with any other real or perceived ecosystem.

The Asus Nexus 7 has shown two things: 1 Apple and MS will have to work real hard to compete. 2 It will be impossible for Samsung and any other to compete with Asus/Google on those terms making Android tablets. Google may actually have shot themselves in the foot with the Nexus 7. It's the beginning of the end. From now on it is all about price, not technology or features. It will be interesting to see what the Surface brings to the table in the form of real value.

Why bother? Nokia is sure to launch one super cool WP8 PureView, and that is all that's needed, then Nokia is back. In a parallel universe it runs MeeGo. In yet another parallel universe it runs Symbian (hmmm :rolleyes: ) or Android.

Re: Nokia's Backup Plan
 

I am interested in seeing how the new Firefox OS (BoottoGecko) turns out...would be interesting if Nokia used that as a back up. (doubtful)

Re: Nokia's Backup Plan
 

WP8 does indeed look like it could be a hit...on paper...it's capable...buuut the question always remains...will anyone buy into it. The majority is so deep into the Android and iOS ecosystems. It's expensive for many to switch now if the advantages of a new platform doesn't surpass or at least equal the loss they incur on themselves, myself included.

Re: Nokia's Backup Plan
 

I'm not seeing what you guys are seeing in WP8, and I say that with WP7 as my daily use phone.

What I saw didn't really bring that much to the table. Customization is nice. But it won't sell me. The hardware is better, but even that won't sell me.

Native code though... that is a selling point.

Re: Nokia's Backup Plan
 

Tend to agree.
The key is that, for the average end user, what's under the hood is irrelevent.
Certainly native code provides benefits for those who do more than make/take calls, send emails, tweets and play games, but given the recent stats, even telephony is the least used aspect of modern smartphones.

MS's drive (through Nokia and others) into the mobile market is all about the aspect of the "ecosystem" that is most important to the manufacturers/OS providers and most ignored by end users: revenue through advertising.

Nokia have had an app market and a range of integrated systems through mapping etc, but their capacity to generate revenue through advertising has been limited by the nature of their OS and market design. Nokia mobile OS development has traditionally been focussed on the end user experience.
The likes of WP and android are purely focussed on integration of advertising revenue throughout all aspects of the User experience, be it through apps, web search or data mining by using linked services.

The challenge for Nokia with any "Plan B" will be how they develop a market based on the same business model that they are competing against.

Re: Nokia's Backup Plan
 

There is a lot to like about wp8. wp7 is already incredibly smooth, and building up to wp8, it will only get better. Pureview camera, and the enlarging ecosystem, will help NOKIA regain its stock value.

Re: Nokia's Backup Plan
 

The fact that you have to purchase a new phone means that they will have to be in the market for a new phone. Nothing will persuade people to buy another Nokia Windows Phone with that hanging over their head - the last version(s) didn't upgrade, won't upgrade.

Lack of upgrade path makes it too much similar to past Nokia exploits. "Buy our next, greatest thing" when greater, better things already exist and will exist.

Re: Nokia's Backup Plan
 

Its going to hurt NOKIA, no doubt, but what is the alternative? Meltemi and Meego are not competitive, Symbian dinosaur is dead. Beggars cant be choosers. I think that NOKIA is still in better shape than RIM. Way better.

Re: Nokia's Backup Plan
 

Not WP7? At this rate, the hurt for Nokia needs to stop. It hasn't.

RIM owns QNX. I'd say they actually might have the upper hand as well as a true, in-house Plan B. And they're well known in the enterprise circles as well as have a messenger service that people actually like and use.

Re: Nokia's Backup Plan
 

RIM owns QNX, just like N9 owned Meego. None are good software firms

Re: Nokia's Backup Plan
 

letme live with own fantasy world along with my n9 for abit longer :mad:

Re: Nokia's Backup Plan
 

Your analogy is way off my man.

Erm... Intel and Nokia worked together to make MeeGo, now defunct.

RIM works with nobody to make QNX (now).

Re: Nokia's Backup Plan
 

My analogy is on target. RIM and NOKIA cant do software like ios, windows and android. Compared to the trio, RIM And NOKIA are 1950s cadillacs

Re: Nokia's Backup Plan
 

oh yeah, nokia cant do software, that must be the reason why symbian is outselling wp so long after it has been killed and why 808 will certanly sell better than any wp dumbphone out there

Re: Nokia's Backup Plan
 

Troll much?

Seriously dude... you're saying that WP7, which was billed as a rewrite, that's actually sitting on top of WinCE and still cannot multi-task like QNX based Playbook OS (by RIM) is a superior product to Maemo/Hildon and MeeGo/Harmattan?

Seriously dude? I can't take that serious even on my worst day.

Based on what criteria? Real world criteria man... not "just because"

Re: Nokia's Backup Plan
 

I find to my surprice I am using my Lumia 800 more and more. For web the L800 is much better than the N9, so much that it weigh up for all lacks of features. The tight integration and the fluent UI make a really good experience. In that respect WP7 is a better plan B than MeeGo.

But, my point is that what make phones sell isn't necessarily connected to how much it is used. Maps may not be used that much, but it is a great selling point. People want it even though the may only use it a handful number of times.

Re: Nokia's Backup Plan
 

There is one thing that WP8 will bring to phones in droves, particularly as much has been made of the fact that it and Windows 8 are built from the same base. Security holes.

How will the general population react if they find the same stream of security patches they've grown used to on PCs suddenly being required for their phones?

I know I'd react poorly.

Re: Nokia's Backup Plan
 

He got a point. If Nokia had managed to make Symbian and Ovi a nice experience, Nokia wouldn't be in trouble. The N97 and edof didn't help, but the main problem was software. Same with RIM. Even today they simply cannot make international versions that doesn't make you laugh, it's worse than Chinese translated cheap junk.

Rim is pure junk IMO, nothing of value.

Re: Nokia's Backup Plan
 

So sayeth the man that sang BadaOS praises. Can't take it serious yet.

Re: Nokia's Backup Plan
 

How do you define 'trouble'?

Before Elop destroyed Symbian's marketability NOKIA's sales of Symbian phones was still growing as was the ASP.

On top of that, in terms of revenue, Ovi was bigger than the Android market place and still growing. In fact everywhere other than North America Ovi was bigger than Apple's app store too.

The 'trouble' NOKIA were in before adopting WP7 was a mere trifle compared to the ever accelerating nose-dive they're in now.

Re: Nokia's Backup Plan
 

I agree with you here, it seems to me the simplicity of Boot2Gecko (Linux kernel + browser) should make it make it easier to shoe-horn into a device PDQ, especially if Mozilla have done most of the HTML/JS and NOKIA only need to apply a bit of CSS to get up and running.

Re: Nokia's Backup Plan
 

Nokia was toast long before Elop. When the iPhone came, and later Android, the Nokia "body" gave up. Only OPK and some other high ranking stupidity actually believed Nokia could compete. Nokia should have gone Android when everybody else did.

As it happends, Android is soon spread so thin due to fragmentation, it is no longer sustainable. But Android and Maemo would be a fine combination.

Re: Nokia's Backup Plan
 

Plan B is: get Meltemi from the shelves and give it to the Meego\N9 Team

That will happens even if win8 susses "it will as I cant see any reason why it wont! even though I love meego\linux more"


Other than that, I cant see any B plan! as Android can't do any better for Nokia than WP

Re: Nokia's Backup Plan
 

There is no plan B for Nokia. It's too late for that. If W8 fails then Nokia fails. Even switching to Android wouldn't help much since it needs time to be modified to look more Nokia like.

They made the worst mistake they could in 2009 by not improving Maemo5 and setting it with the highend devices. Maemo5 needed a little more fluidity and a little better telephony to rock this world. Add to this Symbian in the middle and S40 as low end. Nobody would be able to beat that combination. Now imagine middle 2010 or early 2011, Nokia introduces tablets based on Maemo5. Have you seen a better OS for tablets? I haven't. Even now Android 3 and 4 for tablets reminds sometimes of Maemo5 but it's multitasking is a joke. A pathetic joke.
We're in the middle of 2011 now, Nokia N9 is out. Everyone is amazed by the swipe UI, but there are not enough apps for it. Nokia realizes that and makes something like alien dalvik to port apps from Android to Maemo6. Nokia's on top again.
2012, first Pureview phone is out, next boom in the phone market. Then first dual core Meego phones are released. UI has no hiccups whatsoever, app store is full of apps, symbian is being slowly ditched away to make place for Meego only. Meltemi is getting ready for launch to replace S40. During that moment Nokia while still being on top has a lot of cash so they hire 10 000 people to work on new kind of batteries, in a year time Nokia phones will last 7days without charging and pureview will be minimized so it can fit in a 12mm thick body. Nokia has: best OS, best camera, the biggest amount of apps, best batteries. Now how can you beat that? No way.
But it's already way to late.

Re: Nokia's Backup Plan
 

Re: Nokia's Backup Plan
 

You are looking at this the wrong way. From a directors prespective a backup plan might not be a new OS or even a new product. It could be a split up, sale of the whole or parts of the company.
Can also be a merge of some kind. Plese look at a wider persective. you are so focused on Oses that you forgets about the business.

Re: Nokia's Backup Plan
 

OK, Plan B:

http://www.newtyresquick.com/images/...ELIITA.600.jpg

Re: Nokia's Backup Plan
 

There's no such team to give it to. They've sacked all their Maemo/MeeGo/Meltemi/Linux-in-general people.

Re: Nokia's Backup Plan
 

Listen up children. Case is closed. Android is Plan B:

Nokia Plan B

I mean, it's obvious. There are no other alternatives.


Update: original source apparently. Maybe some Fins can translate for us?

Re: Nokia's Backup Plan
 

I think Android is Plan A.

Re: Nokia's Backup Plan
 

PR 1.3 gets released and now this? REALLY?!?! :mad:

Re: Nokia's Backup Plan
 

I wouldn't put much faith in GSMArena dong anything more than adding speculation to the original story.
the Finnish article I read said he was very cagey about giving any answer when pressed on the topic.
I'd like to see GSMArena post a link to the section of the interview....

Re: Nokia's Backup Plan
 

Android is NOT plan B according to Siilasmaa. Reporter asks what Nokia will do if Windows Phone fails and Siilasmaa responds that they have plan B like every good company has for every situation. Before that Siilasmaa said that they carefully evaluated Nokia's own operating system, WP7 and Android and after months of research they landed on WP7 because Samsung was already the king of Android phones. He never says exactly what the plan B is (which is understandable IMO).

That's my quick and overall translation from the video.

Re: Nokia's Backup Plan
 

The facts are that besides ios and android, there is only windows left to jump on. Nokia wants to be known as the windows phone, just like Samsung is known as the android phone. Makes business sense. Meego and symbian can not compete with the big boys. In UK, operators don't want 808 because it's Symbian. Nokia made the right decision out of all the bad choices they had.

Re: Nokia's Backup Plan
 

If you have some supporting evidence share it with us.

Re: Nokia's Backup Plan
 

On one of their "Five Businesses"
Nokia needs to step up its location based services in the US, even on the LUMIA/WP7. I think the rest of the world they do fine. Maps here are outdated and POIs merely a quarter of what Google reports.

Re: Nokia's Backup Plan
 

The UK carriers don't want an unsupported OS, that's why they dropped Symbian as soon as Elop made his announcement in Feb 2011 and it's why they wont offer it now.

The way you try to turn it upside down is ridiculous, in January 2011 every UK carrier was offering Symbian phones.

I've read T-Mobile in Germany have now dropped WP7, I wouldn't be surprised to see UK carriers follow suit there too.

Re: Nokia's Backup Plan
 

Atleast they should have looked at the competitions and said, " the symbian doesnt provide the same User Experience as other flagships, we need to fix it now"
Apple got AT&T what Nokia couldnt, mass consumption of Cellular DATA.

Re: Nokia's Backup Plan
 

lol
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