Re: Nokia's Backup Plan
 

I'm totally playing devil's advocate here...

The N97. It was the first response post iPhone release and it was rather weak. Comes with Music, bringing back NGage only to kill it again, then re-marketing things as Ovi when the rest of the world thought it an odd word - looks like ovary thus eggs, or the middle of bovine, thus cow in English, but made perfect sense if you were Finnish or willing to reason why it was named Ovi - and to be honest those responses were seen by many (myself included) as clutching at straws.

Now, the "decline" from 2007 and so forth is centered around the so-called arena of smartphones that had music, video and games as well as PIM type applications for your smartphone. Ovi was actually bigger than Android's market in many respects (transactions, apps, developers) for a while... but their offerings seem to not have 3rd party support for why we're here - Maemo.

Maemo was billed as their top level OS, yet the N900 was a meager seller compared to the N95 variations (read: speculation since the N95's numbers were actually known, but not the N900) and then the N9 managed to inherit a new CEO that marketed and sold it in Kazakhstan and not many other "first world" areas directly at the same time as the Nokia distribution channels were being dismantled.

But this all came after only two Nokia stores were opened in the US, while Apple had laid claim that most of the US population was within 100 miles of an Apple Store via strategic placement. This is after placement of iTunes, procurement of media and all from a company headed by a guy that's never done one cellphone in his life.

Nokia should have been ahead of the game there. But this is the North American market. Let's look to Europe. The issues with the initial N95 running out of memory carried over to the later variants, which was met with an still overpriced N97 that basically was panned as a mediocre phone. That was the first iPhone response from Nokia (reminder).

Nokia then comes out with the N8, taking almost 2 years to get Symbian to the point it was touch screen friendly in a way that most modern phones would be - Belle if it came out in 2008 would have killed, but it came out in 2011 a bit late imho - and Nokia just seemed like that leviathan that couldn't get things together. Meanwhile, Maemo was started and stopped 5 times, MeeGo came out and wasn't pushed by even Intel into the handset area with Nokia being the only handset manufacturer to truly build something - LG cancelled out - and then the N9 came out.

Truly a remarkable phone, but it could now be seen as too little, too late because Elop was in place, the foibles of the many restarts of Maemo had taken their toll and our favorite mobile OS was now an esoteric choice second to Android and iOS. All of the above were in motion since 2006 really (earlier if you include the 770) and not handled well.

That's my take. I'm quite sure this wall of text will be greeted with tl;dr so allow me to summarize: Nokia wasted their lead in tablets as well as delivering content to smartphones, didn't quickly respond to the iPhone (scoffed it off) and now are paying for those decisions under OPK by opening the door for somebody like Elop to walk in.

They should have thought things through a bit better and didn't. Sadly, they even had the tools to make things better.

Re: Nokia's Backup Plan
 

@gerbick
I now exactly what you mean about NOKIA dropping the ball when it came to Maemo, so much potential squandered only to be resurrected and squandered again.

I never really understood why Symbian didn't get Hildon either, I guess there was a reason but imo it's a shame NOKIA didn't make it happen.

Don't get me wrong I'm not suggesting for a minute that NOKIA isn't guilty of a few howlers but I haven't seen anyone point to some concrete evidence that suggests Symbian sales were just about to collapse without Elop's intervention.

I do know if I were the head buyer at Vodafone or O2 on Feb 11 2011 I would have immediately phoned my contact at NOKIA and told them they could stick any open orders for Symbian phones right where the sun doesn't shine.

Re: Nokia's Backup Plan
 

I don't know if people forget way too fast, but only two years ago there were discussions about Nokia constantly being unable to execute - anything really. Their store was a mess, the Nokia PC applications for the store and music was a complete mess (and still is), several different sync programs, the N8 that never came, Symbia^3 that never came, etc etc. and last, but not least, the N9 that never came, and when it finally came, Elop has just entered the scene and axed it for all practical intents.

For a brief, but very accurate analysis of what went wrong (and right) read this:
http://www.allaboutsymbian.com/featu...d_right_an.php

Re: Nokia's Backup Plan
 

Dont know much bout RIM but BB10 and qt integrating looks nice until latest rumor about microsoft buys RIM. And also latest annoncement from nokia may very well have hurted RIM in Qt maybe one of the reason why BB10 comming until q1 2013 if it even will be released :(

Re: Nokia's Backup Plan
 

I owned the 7710. When I subsequently bought the 770, my first IT, I couldn't believe the family resemblance between the two. Series 90 for the 7710 was a very clean full touch (including stylus) interface.

Of course, shortly after releasing the phone, Nokia announced the 7710 was the first and last of the Series 90. They've been doing this "kill it before it has a chance to be successful" thing for a while.

The 770, the N800, the N900 (all of which I've owned) seemed to be worked on by "off in a corner" teams - without the full backing of the company.

The N9 is worse. The company seems to have gone out of its way to prevent success.

A company of great people (well, once it was) with great ideas (all those concept phones) some great products and surprisingly inept management.

Re: Nokia's Backup Plan
 

That's why I am having a problem showing too much remorse.

Re: Nokia's Backup Plan
 

Next time can you do that before the wall of text? ;)

truth spoken, really

Re: Nokia's Backup Plan
 

I completely agree with your assessment, but don't understand why then you say that NOKIA had options other than android or windows? Your thesis here is completely in tune what I am saying, and that is that so called execution, is really lack of software optimization and lack of caring about what customers want. This is exactly why they ditched their own engineers in favor of software centric windows. Nokia just can't finish what they start. They lack that hard earned and hard fought perfect finish. Perhaps they were visionaries with Maemo, but they can't finish their visions.

Re: Nokia's Backup Plan
 

And yet, despite all that, the sales of Symbian phones kept increasing. Imagine the potential if they'd put some of those things right.

I hardly ever bother with NOKIA's PC application, I have OTA updates, USB mass storage for uploading/downloading music, videos and pictures (plus of course there's full bluetooth connectivity to any device) and I can install apps direct from the SD card using Symbian's file manager.

I disliked iTunes more than I disliked my iPhone, that was another reason I returned to a Symbian handset.

Re: Nokia's Backup Plan
 

Instead of looking to Android and Windows, they should have stayed on a very focused path and grow the media, content, desktop interaction of Maemo. I've never used Nokia Suite, don't intend to either. But it's not about me... it's about the user that has to be shown pretty colors and announcements that a <insert something new here> is out or coming and give them an easy way to take their money.

iTunes does just that. Nokia should have been worrying about the less than savvy folks, they have the most dispensable income. Instead, they restarted Maemo when they should have been doing the refinements we saw in Maemo 5 and Harmattan way back in 2008.

But to do that, they'd have to have funded it. They didn't. Can't refine Maemo or Harmattan if you're not funding it. You can't refine your desktop app if you're only reacting and poorly funding it.

All of the funding went to Symbian. Android is not an option. A year later, WP7 was a bad option. They should have funded Harmattan more.

I agree.

Mark your calendars folks.

Re: Nokia's Backup Plan
 

Did Nokia kill off that futurist team as well?

It seems to me that the Chair is talking BS.

It would be relatively easy even at this late stage for Nokia to come and take back the market from Apple and Android.

People don't care what OS is on their smartphones. They just care that it can do what they want (not much it just has to be accessible), that it looks good and that it makes them look good.

This is how Apple went from selling Macs to taking over the world with a portable music player.

But Nokia don't have any options left apart from a late jump into Android, backing Tizen or BB10, or trying to resurrect Meego with all their expertise sacked. So I think it's BS to keep the shareholders happy.

Re: Nokia's Backup Plan
 

:confused:

Re: Nokia's Backup Plan
 

I agreed with Lumiaman and that's unprecedented, thus mark your calendars.

Re: Nokia's Backup Plan
 

its time for nokia to create new operating system on its own

Re: Nokia's Backup Plan
 

Why? They just got rid of 3 (Symbian, Maemo and Meltemi) for WP7, which dead ends and is not upgradeable to WP8. And don't forget they bought Smarterphone last year.

Wait. In one fell swoop, Symbian, Maemo/MeeGo, Meltemi and Smarterphone have died in the last year basically. Wow.

Re: Nokia's Backup Plan
 

look nowadays everyone is dying for more apps like android or windows i guess. and nokia is not good in that. symbian? it sucks buddy i agree with symbian 3 and they baught n900 but n900 doesnt hav anything official like no proper games like specially made for n900. we cannot go on hacking everything for phone. there must be some discipline and u nokia launches a phone then its his responsibility to look after it and get apps for it.

Re: Nokia's Backup Plan
 

m@ke$$h!t just wrote off 6.4 billion small change for their search fiasco
in 10 years at most nobody will even remember m@ke$$h!t

Re: Nokia's Backup Plan
 

facts..........

great contribution from NOKIA to m@ke$$h!t sales, huh >¦-)
nota bene, 2011 includes LostDOS imMobilized as well, which NOKIA never sold...

thnaks Flop ¦-))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))

Re: Nokia's Backup Plan
 

Producing what users see as an "operating system" takes a long time, even if funding isn't a problem. The development of core OS, user interface, development tools and applications just takes a lot of time because it all builds on top of each other, and that isn't even taking third-party software ecosystem and cloud/internet services into consideration.

With all the innovation in the mobile space and all the added functionality it makes it harder and harder a for a new Operating system to gain any sizable market-share.
I would say that establishing a new OS takes at least 4 years.
Nokia just pushed the reset button on vital parts of the OS too many times (possibly with very good reasons, as in: "our current implementation sucks" )

Whatever you say about microsoft, the development of the mobile OS was much more organized and better thought out.
A large part of the user interface was established with the Zune HD in september 2009. The phone applications stack, development environment and store infrastructure were started with Windows Phone 7 in 2010 and refined in 2011. And we (probably) will see a more modern core OS and much more cloud services integration with the Windows Phone 8 release this year.

I haven't actually used a Windows Phone on a day-to-day basis, but the UI is very smooth and I think the entire OS looks beautiful.
And everyone that I know that do use a Windows Phone device are very happy. A good start to build your market-share.

Calling WP7 a "dead-end" might not be true. It very much remains to be seen if WP8 will come to low-end devices in the short term. I would not be surprised if Nokia/MS will keep WP7 for low-end devices during 2013.

Re: Nokia's Backup Plan
 

By dead end, it means that a current gen WP7.5 device cannot be upgraded past 7.8 to 8.0.

WP7 is still built on top of WinCE whereas WP8 is built around the NT kernel.

Re: Nokia's Backup Plan
 

Yea, that was a real downer. Looks like they architected WP8 HW to fit NT instead of modifying too much on the NT kernel.

I have a theory of what has happened. It's all about the ecosystem. The Lumia WP7.X had one main purpose, and that was to spread the MS ecosystem throughout Europe and Asia. To build the basic infrastructure so everything was ready for WP8, Surface and WIn8. And I mean everything, HW, music, movies, apps, cloud services and so on. Pre Lumia, the MS ecosystem existed only as patches here and there and wasn't all that good. With Nokia came music and maps among other things, and MS has pumped up the volume 100 folds. More than 100k apps is also a direct result of the Lumia series.

Apple have such an ecosystem, Google has not. When WP8/Surface/Win8 comes in a couple of months, it will come everywhere, on a global scale with full ecosystem support from day 1. It will be a deluge. The Lumia 610 will be a key element in this, a cheap 150 € phone that takes advantage of all this, and it's not even WP8. And cheaper WP7.X phones is still to come, along with high end WP8.

I understand now, there is no need for a plan B. Plan A is fool proof. End of discussion !!! :D

On a side note, I have actually bought myself a 610 today as well :) It will be a gift eventually, but christ, have I turned completely to the Dark side ?? :eek:

Re: Nokia's Backup Plan
 

Be a man, buy the stock!

Re: Nokia's Backup Plan
 

then you are a stupid man

Re: Nokia's Backup Plan
 

Even a stupid man can grow big potatoes.

The problem for Nokia is not over. They may get some solid WP8 products out, but the low end is shaky. WP7 may be pushed lower, but there is a limit.

They will have to shrink further, Nokia is still too large. How are they going to do that? I see some huge cuts in the "next billion" coming soon.

Re: Nokia's Backup Plan
 

Re: Nokia's Backup Plan
 

What is this, I don't even...

But really, you expect people to take you a least bit serious, writing like that?

Re: Nokia's Backup Plan
 

Really? I thought they did rather well in the lower-end and mid-range smartphone segment and the ultra-cheap dumb-phones. The Lumia 610 is sold in the 150-170 euro price range, and it looks rather good compared to similar priced Android phones.
The Lumia 800 is dropping in price rather nice and competes with the iPhone 3GS (together with some very nice Samsung phones.)
Also the ultracheap Nokia 100 is everywhere and a lovely dumb-phone for 20-30 euros.

Nokia currently doesn't have any real "high-end" phones. Lumia 900 and pureview 808 have some high-end features (LTE/camera) but both are seriously lacking in others. That is definitely the biggest problem.
Maybe Nokia also doesn't have clear plans for the 50-100 euro range, but the competition also don't really have any really good products in that price range imho.

Re: Nokia's Backup Plan
 

You got to take some risk in life. No risk, no payoff

Re: Nokia's Backup Plan
 

I´ve wrote this at twitter ( @Bet1nh0 ):

"I think ... JollaMobile = Nokia's Backup Plan"

1 - Nokia is a "phonemaker" ;
2 - Software isn´t your bussiness ;
3 - And the "softwaremaker" ( Microsoft, Accenture, Jolla )

Re: Nokia's Backup Plan
 

Ever wonder who made symbian all this years?

Re: Nokia's Backup Plan
 

And I really don get why the **** tdid they buy smartherphone? Talk about burning money...

Re: Nokia's Backup Plan
 

yes YOU will ;)

Re: Nokia's Backup Plan
 

I am sure there will be PLENTY of followers who will buy W8 stuff. Because most people are followers.

No doubt in that. But the most stupid is those people who buys WP products comming from Nokia.

If you want a WP phone go for somne other company. Because Nokia are loosers and should die. Reason: They didnt take the fight! And the board are a bunch of fools who deserve to get fired ASAP.

Personally I go for a smaller company and hope they success and can release some cool geek device atleast once a year.

Re: Nokia's Backup Plan
 

I know that. Everybody around the world.

But Stephen Elop did not remember that... a lot of CIOs and CEOs around the world think like him.

I have studied cases like Nokia and they do that, when an enterprise has problems with OPEX.

They prefer to increase CAPEX and decrease OPEX.

Re: Nokia's Backup Plan
 

hard to believe their are still ppl idiotic enough to believe in....that


¦-))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))

Re: Nokia's Backup Plan
 

I still think the writing was on the wall back in 2010 when J Allard wrote his now infamous goodbye note...

Seems like Ballmer finally listened.

Re: Nokia's Backup Plan
 

:confused::rolleyes:maybe i should have read it too before posting it, huh:rolleyes::confused:

thanks for the anecdote!