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-   -   JollaMobile : Jolla continues Nokia's excellent work on #MeeGo based smartphones (https://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=85315)

mikecomputing 2012-08-05 17:21
Re: JollaMobile : Jolla continues Nokia's excellent work on #MeeGo based smartphones
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by shmerl (Post 1247873)
Mer is a fork of the MeeGo code base. Is it not? It's not a from scratch project.
hmm..
fork to me is when you clone repositorys and change stuff and loose ncompability with upstream?

shmerl 2012-08-05 17:23
Re: JollaMobile : Jolla continues Nokia's excellent work on #MeeGo based smartphones
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikecomputing (Post 1247878)
hmm..
fork to me is when you clone repositorys and change stuff and loose ncompability with upstream?
Well, forks can have different variety. You can copy part of the code, while not some other part. At least partially it's a fork. May be Stskeeps can clarify the actual relation between Mer and MeeGo project code wise. And not all forks are supposed to lose compatibility as well. Fork just means a parallel development / cloned codebase for whatever reason.

timoph 2012-08-05 18:10
Re: JollaMobile : Jolla continues Nokia's excellent work on #MeeGo based smartphones
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by shmerl (Post 1247879)
Well, forks can have different variety. You can copy part of the code, while not some other part. At least partially it's a fork. May be Stskeeps can clarify the actual relation between Mer and MeeGo project code wise. And not all forks are supposed to lose compatibility as well. Fork just means a parallel development / cloned codebase for whatever reason.
I'd rather call it continuation of MeeGo since the original project is dead. In any case that's just semantics, the main point is that the code and the idea lives on with Mer.

shmerl 2012-08-05 18:48
Re: JollaMobile : Jolla continues Nokia's excellent work on #MeeGo based smartphones
 
Yes. So it's somewhat confusing to say that Jolla is based on Meego and Mer (like Wiki says now). I'd say like Stskeeps that it's based on Mer and continues MeeGo spirit.

slaapliedje 2012-08-05 18:58
Re: JollaMobile : Jolla continues Nokia's excellent work on #MeeGo based smartphones
 
Some examples of forks that I can think off the top of my head;

Nessus -> OpenVAS
The fork was because Nessus decided to become more commercial and / or stopped accepting code from the community. (I might be remembering that a little wrong)

Nagios -> Icinga. Nagios didn't want to change it's look, felt like they wanted to commercialize it and stopped accepting patches for bugs, so Icinga was created.

Redmine -> Chiliproject
Not entirely sure on this one, but it looks like a lot of Chiliprojects goals are to revamp the interface of Redmine. This particular case, I don't think they should have forked it, and instead just helped out with the main project.

MeeGo -> (current) Mer.
From what I understand of it, Mer was a project before MeeGo, right? A project to bring Maemo to other platforms, but then MeeGo came about and it seemed to fade away for a while, then MeeGo had Nokia leave the project, then Intel, and now Mer takes over where MeeGo left off.

Pretty sure I got all of that right. But if not. Meh :D

slaapliedje

shmerl 2012-08-05 19:20
Re: JollaMobile : Jolla continues Nokia's excellent work on #MeeGo based smartphones
 
Well, Mer did exist before Meego being based on Maemo efforts, but it redefined itself after Meego later.

And an example of fork with maintaining compatibility is OpenSolaris -> illumos.

don_falcone 2012-08-05 19:45
Re: JollaMobile : Jolla continues Nokia's excellent work on #MeeGo based smartphones
 
XFree86 -> X.org
OpenOffice -> LibreOffice
GCC -> EGCS (-> GCC)

Dave999 2012-08-05 19:56
Re: JollaMobile : Jolla continues Nokia's excellent work on #MeeGo based smartphones
 
Build a comercial phone with mer is really intressting and strange. How will that succeed?

Im waiting for announcment.

specc 2012-08-05 20:08
Re: JollaMobile : Jolla continues Nokia's excellent work on #MeeGo based smartphones
 
The only hope for Jolla is to be able to create something that, on some level, is interesting for Baidu in their OS.

Dave999 2012-08-05 20:15
Re: JollaMobile : Jolla continues Nokia's excellent work on #MeeGo based smartphones
 
I hope they have some cool things up it sleeves. The OS alone will not do it. Its all about Elops favorite word: ECOSYSTEM.

Im still waiting. Will be an awasome announcment.

shmerl 2012-08-05 21:09
Re: JollaMobile : Jolla continues Nokia's excellent work on #MeeGo based smartphones
 
What is strange there? It's a sane thing to do. Mer gives potential for collaboration and they don't need to reinvent the wheel in the N-th time with the infrastructure. They need to focus on their innovative part - the user experience.

On a side note - I just saw something about webOS working only with Linux 3.3 and higher. Will Jolla try to build Mer with Linux 3.2, or 3.4 and etc.? Why should they be forever stuck with 2.6.x?

Dave999 2012-08-05 21:20
Re: JollaMobile : Jolla continues Nokia's excellent work on #MeeGo based smartphones
 
Whats strange? Jolla lives and dies with mer.

RX-51 2012-08-05 21:32
Re: JollaMobile : Jolla continues Nokia's excellent work on #MeeGo based smartphones
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave999 (Post 1247953)
I hope they have some cool things up it sleeves. The OS alone will not do it. Its all about Elops favorite word: ECOSYSTEM.

Im still waiting. Will be an awasome announcment.
ECOSYSTEM - one of the most overrated things imho.

shmerl 2012-08-05 21:36
Re: JollaMobile : Jolla continues Nokia's excellent work on #MeeGo based smartphones
 
Not exactly. Mer is created to survive vendors' failures. Unlike MeeGo which was too dependent on the main players (Nokia and Intel) and died (as a project) the moment they pulled the plug. Not that we should anticipate any such failures, but Mer should be ready to deal with them. Let's hope Jolla and PlasmaActive will have success with Mer.

aironeous 2012-08-05 22:07
Re: JollaMobile : Jolla continues Nokia's excellent work on #MeeGo based smartphones
 
Just googling recent Jolla items
Jolla opening new office in Oulu, Finland

Already posted Jolla answers by nokiablog but I find this easier on the eyes
Is this the Jolla facebook page?
The Vivaldi tablet uses mer core and Plasma active two

Sort of off topic:
this shows how much money it cost to sell a Lumia
808 demand is exceeding supply LOL

windows phone is such a fail IMO oh well

aironeous 2012-08-05 22:40
Re: JollaMobile : Jolla continues Nokia's excellent work on #MeeGo based smartphones
 
Can we install Mer and active plasma on our N9's?

Here http://plasma-active.org/ at the bottom left of the page it says it has been installed on the N950

And on the get it link it has arm and meego instructions

Is this it https://build.pub.meego.com/project/...runk%3ATesting

Here is a talk about plasma active and open source and a LOL at Nokia http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DjiyC...eature=related Listen at 23:15 he talks about how Nokia cannot close down QT

So I am getting from Jolla's comments that they are going to use plasma active or collaborate with them or do something similar.

bennypr0fane 2012-08-05 22:42
Re: JollaMobile : Jolla continues Nokia's excellent work on #MeeGo based smartphones
 
I really love this answer:

"How does Jolla mobile ensure that their hardware design is going to stand out?"
"Considering the current trends in the mobile marketplace, it is not that difficult to stand out when it comes to hardware design."
:p

Hurrian 2012-08-05 23:31
Re: JollaMobile : Jolla continues Nokia's excellent work on #MeeGo based smartphones
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by shmerl (Post 1247964)
On a side note - I just saw something about webOS working only with Linux 3.3 and higher. Will Jolla try to build Mer with Linux 3.2, or 3.4 and etc.? Why should they be forever stuck with 2.6.x?
It depends on the SoC they're using, as some HW vendors are glacially slow in terms of releasing new kernels for their boards (NVIDIAAAAAAAA!), while some are better than others (TI) in keeping up with recent kernels.

(Speaking of which, I heard there's a mythical 3.0 patch series for RX-51 board support.)

The way things look, the ex-Nokia team is probably going to keep using TI OMAPs in their devices. Let's just hope they don't include stupid amounts of closed core components such as DSME, BME, libcal and the like.

Lumiaman 2012-08-05 23:54
Re: JollaMobile : Jolla continues Nokia's excellent work on #MeeGo based smartphones
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by danramos (Post 1247798)
Wait.. are you talking about Maemo or Windows Phone? You MENTIONED Maemo but Windows on mobile has been a work in progress for FAR longer than five years and it's still failing to complete with competitors--but everything else you're saying fits the questions we all have about Windows Phone perfectly except they're producing.. and nobody's buying.

Jolla, on the other hand, has only just started up--so they have some benefit of waiting to see what they release as their first foray. Microsoft and Nokia, not-so-much at this point.



I love Silicon Valley in a personal way. As someone who lived and worked in Silicon Valley for a number of years. I might be qualified to point out what someone who isn't from Silicon Valley already pointed out to you correctly despite lacking my experience: You don't have to be from Silicon Valley to make a product and one that might be better. More importantly, if you're calling Microsoft or Nokia a Silicon Valley company, you're sadly mistaken.

-----

To everyone: Please stop responding to off-topic trolling if you want it to end. Let me remind you that you already know his positions.. why bother arguing or trying to convince somebody that acts like they have an inflexible opinion and possibly an agenda against the very thing you're talking about? Don't ban him--he hasn't done anything bad in actuality.. Just ignore his posts and let the rest of us read and shrug them off. It's just common sense but sometimes I think people need to be reminded.

Personally, I don't mind his posts. It gives me some post history to look back on to see how miserably incorrect he's been so far and it's a source of mild amusement--like looking back at wildly incorrect sports bets and movie reviews that never quite matched public opinion upon release.
Damnramos, Out of all the Stalinist and McCathy supporters here, I salute your appreciation of freedom to express opinion. With regards to offering answers to my questions, you are completely off the mark and ramble in 20 different disconnected directions.

What I meant by Silicon Valley are android and iOS. Last time I checked, WP headquarters are in Seattle and Nokia is in Finland. And why do you deviate from Maemo to Windows? Both have missed their mark, but this thread is about Jolla and not Windows. So stop derailing the topic and trolling.

The skepticisms around Jolla are healthy both for Jolla and for the aficionados. Even Quim tweeted that he HOPES, they have learned from their mistakes on Harmattan. Maemo did not succeed, nor did N9 for obvious reasons. N9 was meant for the masses and OS on N9 is still beta. Harmattan apologizers will scream that they werent given enough resources, etc. etc. Who knows? Maybe they WERE given enough resources but didnt deliver competitive product and were cut. Perhaps same happened to Meltemi. N9 was good for <1% of the population (geeks, open source enthusiasts or whatever), but theirs wasnt a competitive product for the 99% out there.

Jolla wants to make products for the mass market. They didnt deliver under NOKIA flag. Will they deliver under JOLLA flag? Lets look who is under the Jolla flag. The leadership came from the defunct unit at NOKIA, and the core group of engineers and designers also came from NOKIA. Why should I trust that they will deliver a competitive product? What has changed for them? I am sure that their budget at NOKIA was greater than 10 million they have now. So the healthy skeptic in me will say why will changing the flag, from NOKIA to Jolla, change the leadership style, their weaknesses (or strengths) and morph them into something better. And why will they with pitiful 10 million succeed? All I hear is irrational exuberance without analysis to back up this exuberance.

All we know right now is that Jolla can tweet. That is all. Hopefully by the end of the year we will know what they got in store.

shmerl 2012-08-06 00:44
Re: JollaMobile : Jolla continues Nokia's excellent work on #MeeGo based smartphones
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by aironeous (Post 1247995)
Can we install Mer and active plasma on our N9's?
You can out of curiosity. There is a demo from Vgrade, running Mer/PlasmaActive on N950. But it's not very usable. PlasmaActive didn't yet work on the handset design. It's suitable for tablets, not for handsets really. I hope in the future PlasmaActive will get up to the point of working on the handset design, and there will be truly open and well designed UI for handsets as well, running on top of Mer. (We still don't know what UI will Jolla use, but there is a chance it'll be closed, if they'll follow the Harmattan approach).

Vivaldi project got stalled, because of Zenithink making problems with releasing updated drivers for their C71+ (which was supposed to be used for Vivaldi):

http://lwn.net/Articles/504865/

mahead 2012-08-06 09:04
Re: JollaMobile : Jolla continues Nokia's excellent work on #MeeGo based smartphones
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lumiaman (Post 1248022)
N9 was good for <1% of the population (geeks, open source enthusiasts or whatever)
I guess my 65 year old father goes then "or whatever" category, since geek he is in no way, but not either open source enthuasiast. Basically he is machine oriented, but hates computers. Still, I recommended him N9, and after sorting out language problem (he don't have skills for English and for some reason the phone first started using English), and giving some usage tips, he has used the phone quite happily.

The phone notified about firmware upgrade, and he managed to do it without issues. The phone went straight from PR 1.0 to PR 1.3.

He even managed to transfer his contacts via bluetooth from his old S60 phone. Something that looked to be pain in the a** with Lumia when my co-worked told about his experiences (went from S60 to Lumia) and it wasn't possible without company's exchange server.

After couple of days, I texted and asked if dad had any issues with the phone or other things that needs to be solved. He answered: "Hi! No issues, but something to wonder yes... how could Nokia abandon as great phone as this? I have been downloading software from Ovi store, arranged the menus etc. Yesterday I tested the navigation. - - ".

He even replaced the Accuweather applet with Meecast to get weather data in Finnish (I have no clue where he got the idea to do that), and configured it to be visible stand by screen.

So sorry, I have pretty hard time to believe N9 wasn't ready for masses. :)

dietyyli 2012-08-06 09:18
Re: JollaMobile : Jolla continues Nokia's excellent work on #MeeGo based smartphones
 
Jolla buy jolla.com domain for $50,000

http://www.domainnews.com/en/top-15-...july-2012.html

Dared 2012-08-06 09:19
Re: JollaMobile : Jolla continues Nokia's excellent work on #MeeGo based smartphones
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lumiaman (Post 1247401)
i am looking at their history and trying to predict where will it go. company depends on people and ability to execute. ideas are like *******s, everyone has one. and i am not confident that these Nokia bred individuals have the stuff to take on the Silicon Valley
Microsoft has had a mobile OS for 10 years now, and how much market share do they have?

Compare Nokia's market share in the last 10 years. Clearly Nokia can create far better things than Microsoft

Enough said

timoph 2012-08-06 10:19
Re: JollaMobile : Jolla continues Nokia's excellent work on #MeeGo based smartphones
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by aironeous (Post 1247995)
Can we install Mer and active plasma on our N9's?
yes.

afaik there's not prebuild images for it so you'll either have to make your own custom .ks and build an image from it (I'd suggest basing it on nemo's .ks files) or install nemo and add needed repos and make the changes on the device. this is what I did with meego ce/plasma on n900 when doing it for the first time.

Unfortunately I don't have any step by step instructions to offer. Happy hacking.

ps. the video on the blog post is about year old so things have changed..

Dave999 2012-08-06 10:41
Re: JollaMobile : Jolla continues Nokia's excellent work on #MeeGo based smartphones
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by dietyyli (Post 1248187)
Jolla buy jolla.com domain for $50,000

http://www.domainnews.com/en/top-15-...july-2012.html


how do you know it's the right jolla?

thedead1440 2012-08-06 10:46
Re: JollaMobile : Jolla continues Nokia's excellent work on #MeeGo based smartphones
 
I'm sure it isn't the right jolla. The parked page is the Spanish Jolla ;)


Edit: I'm corrected by the post below...

kevloral 2012-08-06 11:14
Re: JollaMobile : Jolla continues Nokia's excellent work on #MeeGo based smartphones
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave999 (Post 1248218)
how do you know it's the right jolla?
Because of this:

Quote:
Domain name: JOLLA.COM Registrant Contact: Stefano Mosconi () Fax: Hiilikatu 3 Helsinki, HELSINKI 00180 FI
Stefano Mosconi is the CIO at Jolla: http://www.linkedin.com/in/stezz

mikecomputing 2012-08-06 12:50
Re: JollaMobile : Jolla continues Nokia's excellent work on #MeeGo based smartphones
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hurrian (Post 1248010)
It depends on the SoC they're using, as some HW vendors are glacially slow in terms of releasing new kernels for their boards (NVIDIAAAAAAAA!), while some are better than others (TI) in keeping up with recent kernels.

(Speaking of which, I heard there's a mythical 3.0 patch series for RX-51 board support.)

The way things look, the ex-Nokia team is probably going to keep using TI OMAPs in their devices. Let's just hope they don't include stupid amounts of closed core components such as DSME, BME, libcal and the like.
I am sure alot will continue be closed. And about OMAP I doubt... I dont like Intels x86 arch but I think that is the way they will o. I said before that is risky for such small company but in same time:

1. Intel may have big intrest to "sponsor them
2. Jolla small player lower volumes means Texas and others has no intrests and hard for jolla to get chips cause of lowvolumes

intel in other side can use jolla as hmm "betatesters" of theyr mobile platform?

Lumiaman 2012-08-06 13:47
Re: JollaMobile : Jolla continues Nokia's excellent work on #MeeGo based smartphones
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dared (Post 1248188)
Microsoft has had a mobile OS for 10 years now, and how much market share do they have?

Compare Nokia's market share in the last 10 years. Clearly Nokia can create far better things than Microsoft

Enough said
I think you are still living in the past!

danramos 2012-08-06 16:53
Re: JollaMobile : Jolla continues Nokia's excellent work on #MeeGo based smartphones
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lumiaman (Post 1248022)
Damnramos, Out of all the Stalinist and McCathy supporters here, I salute your appreciation of freedom to express opinion. With regards to offering answers to my questions, you are completely off the mark and ramble in 20 different disconnected directions.
Jane, you ignorant slut. :)

Dave999 2012-08-06 17:04
Re: JollaMobile : Jolla continues Nokia's excellent work on #MeeGo based smartphones
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by danramos (Post 1248337)
He said ****. BAN! ;)

Lumiaman 2012-08-06 17:16
Re: JollaMobile : Jolla continues Nokia's excellent work on #MeeGo based smartphones
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by danramos (Post 1248337)
This teared me up

shmerl 2012-08-08 15:44
Re: JollaMobile : Jolla continues Nokia's excellent work on #MeeGo based smartphones
 
Any response from Jolla on the community questions list? It's been a while already.

If Maemo council aren't going to forward it, may be someone else should?

aironeous 2012-08-08 17:17
Re: JollaMobile : Jolla continues Nokia's excellent work on #MeeGo based smartphones
 
http://followingjolla.blogspot.fi/20...l-faq.html?m=1

shmerl 2012-08-08 17:22
Re: JollaMobile : Jolla continues Nokia's excellent work on #MeeGo based smartphones
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by aironeous (Post 1249194)
Well, all that is quite known. However there were a lot of questions in the list which aren't that clear yet, and it'd be good to get answers from Jolla about them. This blog is also somewhat confusing, using MeeGo name across everywhere. I'd avoid using MeeGo as much, and move on to the current naming (Mer, Jolla and etc.). Especially since MeeGo is a LF trademark.

aironeous 2012-08-08 19:29
Re: JollaMobile : Jolla continues Nokia's excellent work on #MeeGo based smartphones
 
I was just posting a google result next time I'll label the link. I was on break time from machinist class and didn't have time to label it.
Jolla concept phone
http://jollatides.com/
and this http://www.arcticstartup.com/2012/08...artups-demoday

starstuff 2012-08-09 01:31
Re: JollaMobile : Jolla continues Nokia's excellent work on #MeeGo based smartphones
 
can't wait for this! i tried android, iphone and wp but don't like it at all, where can i get news about jolla os?

shmerl 2012-08-09 04:23
Re: JollaMobile : Jolla continues Nokia's excellent work on #MeeGo based smartphones
 
There aren't many news around yet. Wait for them to create some site first.

mariusmssj 2012-08-10 08:57
Re: JollaMobile : Jolla continues Nokia's excellent work on #MeeGo based smartphones
 
Interview: Jolla CEO Jussi Hurmola

ivgalvez 2012-08-10 11:00
Re: JollaMobile : Jolla continues Nokia's excellent work on #MeeGo based smartphones
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by shmerl (Post 1249171)
Any response from Jolla on the community questions list? It's been a while already.

If Maemo council aren't going to forward it, may be someone else should?
Please check last Council minutes.


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