Re: [Council] Maemo Elections (September 2012)
 

welcome on board!
I'm missing verification of your candidature by Woody yet (karma, account age). According to http://wiki.maemo.org/Community_Coun...e_declarations (also missing you there) you already should be #5 on the list of candidates for council. Which doesn't mean we couldn't use more candidates, but alas extended nomination period already closed anyway.

I mentioned it from beginning, I'm probably the worst candidate for council since my time to assign to this task is very limited and my diplomatic-fu is weak. So rather than getting separate bodies for council and HF board as ivgalvez suggested, you better consider who's best man for the position no matter if already in HF board or not. In the end that's for sure not me ;-)

cheers
jOERG

Re: [Council] Maemo Elections (September 2012)
 

Thank you.

I can edit that wiki page if with my name if that is appropriate. I just was not sure if that should be done after verification.

My account on m.o. is dated February 2010 and I have a karma of 551 so eligibility should be ok.

http://maemo.org/profile/view/qwazix/

PS. I asked for more candidacies because in the bylaws it states that if you have less than 6 candidates, only three get elected. If the bylaws are to be followed (or is it the next time that they will first get in effect?) then the election will be held and 3 people will get elected.

Re: [Council] Maemo Elections (September 2012)
 

I was hoping Jaffa and MisterC would continue that work in my absence, but since you clearly meet the requirments, please do update the wiki. Shouldn't be an issue, since those facts are verifiable by anyone.


The bylaws have nothing to do with this Council election cycle, only the election rules.

There is currently a conflict in the case of exactly 3 or exactly 5 candidates, which will need to eventually be repaired. That will require either a referendum to change the election rules to match the bylaws, or reversion of the bylaws to handle appointment vs extension for the case of exactly 3 or 5 candidates. I suspect the former will happen, since most people dislike the idea of automatic appointment vs extension and an election.

Re: [Council] Maemo Elections (September 2012)
 

qwazix,

finally got around to update the Candidate declaration page.
apologies for the long delay :(

Re: [Council] Maemo Elections (September 2012)
 

This is an obvious bug in Council rules, but it wouldn't make sense to have a voting if we have 4 candidates but not with 5. In this case, we should vote for a 3 members Council. I hope Jaffa could clarify.

Re: [Council] Maemo Elections (September 2012)
 

This accidental loophole has been annoying me for years, but the rules are as written and require a referendum for any change. Neither Jaffa, the council or any other community member has any special powers to change the wording otherwise.

Anyway, this is the last time these rules apply. If we have another election it will be for the Hildon Foundation community council, not the maemo.org one, under the HF bylaws which have already fixed this.

Re: [Council] Maemo Elections (September 2012)
 

can we leave fixing the rules for after the vote, maybe? :rolleyes:
when can we vote, btw???

Re: [Council] Maemo Elections (September 2012)
 

If there are exactly 3 or 5 candidates we can't, they are all appointed to the council automatically with no vote required.

Re: [Council] Maemo Elections (September 2012)
 

@all
So YOUR chance to get into council and move smth.

Re: [Council] Maemo Elections (September 2012)
 

that's the way i like elections ¦-))))))
:eek::rolleyes:

when does the new Council enter function?

Re: [Council] Maemo Elections (September 2012)
 

So, we have two candidates that would prefer not to be considered in a vote, yet due to existing rules will become councillors by default.

Re: [Council] Maemo Elections (September 2012)
 

we had that discussion a couple weeks ago about the Board... if they'd like to, they can resign right away after entering function...
or at any time after that :cool:

Re: [Council] Maemo Elections (September 2012)
 

So how do we proceed in case of that. Can they resign easier then if elected by votes? Or what is so strange with that?

Re: [Council] Maemo Elections (September 2012)
 

There were candidates who mentioned they'd prefer not to be voted for, but since they nominated themselves or accepted nomination, they must have some desire to help out on Council.

Not a huge problem, imo. The worst case is that they can't donate that much time to Council matters, but will help out where possible and as needed.

Re: [Council] Maemo Elections (September 2012)
 

That's not exact. It's not that I don't want to be part of Council or that I'm not willing to help, but I think it would be better to have different people in both groups, specially if Council was going to have only three members.

Re: [Council] Maemo Elections (September 2012)
 

let's not play on the words, shall we?
there is no need to vote thus you got elected automatically.

question now is how will you simply leave the Council on its 1st reunion?

i don't agree with your "completely separate body" opinion.
communication between the two organs is going to be an issue; in order to avoid having a "left hand doesn't know what right hand does (decided, published, whatever...)" it is required to have exchange. the worst is to have each reading the meeting minutes of the other.
the next best thing is a member of the other attending meetings; certainly an improvement, but this leaves the "exchange" limited to meetings.
if one person is in both organs, the flow of information is optimal, as the person will always have the most recent status of both sides.

in fact, if both are going to remain, maybe such a duality should be institutionalised?
:confused:

Re: [Council] Maemo Elections (September 2012)
 

btw...
we didn't vote, so who is going to be chair of the Council?

Re: [Council] Maemo Elections (September 2012)
 

since nothing in election rules says there'll be a council without election, and since votes are scheduled for 00:00, Friday, 2nd November 2012, I don't think there's any way to start new council before at least a virtual voting has happened in that very second and the responsible of former council announced the result of that election.
After that the new council will probably meet to elect chair

/j

Re: [Council] Maemo Elections (September 2012)
 

In the past, the council members have chosen their chair by whatever means they liked. If I'm not mistaken, the selection process often involved a spirited round of "Not it!"

Re: [Council] Maemo Elections (September 2012)
 

I think having at least one overlapping member will be nice. Ivan, even if your only donation to the next Council is to act as a conduit for information between the two, it would still be unbelievably helpful.

Though logically, one can see that if one held an election, each nominee would get at least one vote. Knowing that, there's no reason to actually have it. (And in case there is any doubt, I publicly hereby cast my vote for all 5 candidates, if they want it or not. :rolleyes: )

Re: [Council] Maemo Elections (September 2012)
 

Guys, are you all serious? We're talking about electing community representatives, or forging election farse, by some combination, which variation of fake-votes and fake-candidates will result in most desirable output?

Seriously, last two pages here would even offend Belorussian and Chinese standards on democracy. I can't believe, what I'm seeing here.

/Estel

Re: [Council] Maemo Elections (September 2012)
 

You may be right (and I really like your first post without any direct offences in this context), but we have to play according to current rules.
And it is not a government we "vote for", but a few people acting as "gateway"/volunteers.
Even more: imagine Chinese/Belorussians/former GDRs would have (had) the chance to nominate freely for governement and get voted ...

Re: [Council] Maemo Elections (September 2012)
 

Of course this is a really valid point of view, let's see how it works in practice.

Re: [Council] Maemo Elections (September 2012)
 

council been 'invented' to play the ambassador role between Nokia and community.
now that community elects the board as successor of Nokia, for all that's community (resources) related, I don't see where's the use to have an ambassador to negotiate between interest of community and interests of board, since, well, if board's interests are not community's interests then something went teribly wrong in election of board, no?

/j

Re: [Council] Maemo Elections (September 2012)
 

Council will help in acting as a counter-balance on the Board...Although unlikely there is always a possibility of the Board not exactly acting in the interests of the community-at-large hence the Council will help in keeping them on their toes...

Oh and this doesn't count the day-to-day things the Council will be required for like canvassing community opinion on matters etc...

Re: [Council] Maemo Elections (September 2012)
 

It seems to me that the risk of council being derailed regarding proper representation of community is about equally high as for board.

Going through the points at http://wiki.maemo.org/Community_Council#Council_work I see really few (maybe 1 or max 2) that aren't already either absolutely obsolete (device program, sponsorship of anual events) or done by board rather than council anyway (hiring stuff), and those max 2 points *could* as well get done by board - no need to have a council in parallel to the board entity, with all the overhead already mentioned this will introduce.

I'm not saying council is useless or obsolete per se, I just wonder if it's worth the effort to have two entities. The suggested control function over board is moot anyway in my book. Anyway that's just my take on that, and it's up to community to decide. I just think that in times where we have trouble to find 5 volunteers for one entity, it's maybe not really helpful to have two entites to populate and then see both fail due to lack of candidates.

/j

Re: [Council] Maemo Elections (September 2012)
 

I agree with you mainly...

What I feel is that maybe for the next few months at least while we are transiting, we should have both the Board and Council; once things are settled down this can be brought up for debate with maybe the Board being expanded and the Council dissolved...

Yes we have had difficulty in getting candidates but its not too hard to see why considering the troubles the last Council had to go due to various reasons. Not many people in their right minds would want to put themselves through all that IMO especially when coupled together with the uncertain future ahead...

Re: [Council] Maemo Elections (September 2012)
 

I get and understand everything everyone has said here. But this horse is not only dead, but has now been beaten into a fine purée, here, in Council, on IRC, and several other places.

The community is in a state of transition. No one knows for sure where things are going to go. Rather then try to predict the future, the outgoing Council choose to let this ride for one more term. That way, as a community we can see how everything looks if/when we're on the other side of the mirror in 3 to 6 months, and make an educated choice instead of a wild guess.

For now, I see Council and the Board working jointly on several things, and separately on a few key items that Council can't work on for legal reasons. By the time the community has to deal with this again we'll be at least 3 months in, and will have a much clearer idea of where things are, what's going on, and what the community needs.

Right now, things look good to me. We have an incoming Council, with active members. We have a Board ready to go, and one overlapping member who's already agreed to try to act as a conduit for the two. In spite of everything that's happened, I think we actually got a pretty nice setup in the end.

Let's focus on the immediate future for now, and leave this detail until January/February, instead of investing precious time and resources on it right this second, when doing so may prevent it from ever mattering, ok? :)