Re: Sailfish(Jolla): Ideas/Qns & Concerns/Criticisms
 

When you don't care about LTE at all.

Re: Sailfish(Jolla): Ideas/Qns & Concerns/Criticisms
 

Well, I care about LTE (T-Mobile is going to roll it out). However LTE has many frequencies. Jolla can't possible support them all in one device, or can they?

Even besides LTE, it doesn't seem to support 1700 Mhz HSPDA according to http://www.gsmarena.com/jolla_jolla-5457.php And it's used by T-mobile for their current GSM plans. I'm not sure about 2100 Mhz which is supposedly used as well - it's rather confusing.

Re: Sailfish(Jolla): Ideas/Qns & Concerns/Criticisms
 

Worst part, even 40 euro preorders are not guaranteed their shipment if I read this part of FAQ (https://jolla.com/care/) correctly:

So it seems they have a global distributer/printer of t-shirts, this much they can guarantee, but then except priority place in line they cannot guarantee a device shipment (hopefully this is just there for legal reasons, since shipping and local tax is not included in the 399 price, the few orders to Fiji can cover extra shipping costs, hopefully)

Re: Sailfish(Jolla): Ideas/Qns & Concerns/Criticisms
 

Looks like T-Mobile are going to support 1900 Mhz for HSPA+ after all:

http://support.t-mobile.com/docs/DOC-5736

So this can make it usable.

Re: Sailfish(Jolla): Ideas/Qns & Concerns/Criticisms
 

I'll care about LTE availability only after they roll out any availablility. Here in Ohio, the only carrier with any kind of decent coverage is Verizon, and even they have massive gaps. (Where my parents live, they have no cell phone service at all. You can just get Verizon if you drive to the top of the nearest hill, but nothing else for dozens of miles in any direction...)

Re: Sailfish(Jolla): Ideas/Qns & Concerns/Criticisms
 

Sure, coverage can vary a lot depending on location. But where it exists, T-mobile has the best prepaid plans that work with N9(50) :) And looks like they'll be compatible with Jolla device, at least towards the end of 2013.

Re: Sailfish(Jolla): Ideas/Qns & Concerns/Criticisms
 

If I am big competitor to Jolla I can try to block them if I know what components they will use by buying up all the inventory for that. They are in an inferior position on components where they can't know for sure what they will be able to secure from their suppliers. I think they have to prove they have enough demand first with the preorders before they can negotiate firm deals on components.

Re: Sailfish(Jolla): Ideas/Qns & Concerns/Criticisms
 

+1

There will be lots of horse trading and negotiations behind the scenes on this. Every cent shaved off the cost of a certain component is huge, so Jolla will want to be in the best possible situation when it comes to signing manufacturing contracts.

Re: Sailfish(Jolla): Ideas/Qns & Concerns/Criticisms
 

Where can I find this other half connection API?

Jolla information presentation rates 0 of 10.

Re: Sailfish(Jolla): Ideas/Qns & Concerns/Criticisms
 

That to me sounds like they intend to "fully support" LTE for EU & China markets, & will look at other markets only once they get some momentum from the former.

You made the point in one of the threads that a presentation isn't everything, & that a steady flow of info will come before & after, how about following your own advice?
And can we get back to constructive Ideas/Qns & Concerns/Criticisms now, your 1st sentence adhered to that approach, keep it like that please.
Use the more general discussion thread(s) if you only want to constantly whine, I'll join you there occasionally too...

Re: Sailfish(Jolla): Ideas/Qns & Concerns/Criticisms
 

That advice before jolla announced it and I could never have dreamed of a preorder without spec and proper information, plus I expected more from the presentation

Re: Sailfish(Jolla): Ideas/Qns & Concerns/Criticisms
 

My "Qns & Concerns" is the mechanical design of the other half interface of the device, how is it done so that it satisfies at least these boundary conditions:

• easy to change/snap on
• sturdy enough not to part by itself in normal use
• resistant to wear/breaking when connected/disconnected
• resistant to dirt collecting on the mounting parts and crevices
• If there's electical interface and/or communication interface, its mechanical stability and protection

Re: Sailfish(Jolla): Ideas/Qns & Concerns/Criticisms
 

Add the basic questions too:

• memory?
• processor?
• GPS/Glonass-software?
• battery size?

Resolution and release date would be nice too...

Re: Sailfish(Jolla): Ideas/Qns & Concerns/Criticisms
 

Has anyone see the battery cover or is there an other removable cover under 'the other half'-cover?!

Edit:

You can see the back of Jolla Phone here but it is very plain, no battery..no card slot ..and there have to be a second removable cover... :rolleyes:

Re: Sailfish(Jolla): Ideas/Qns & Concerns/Criticisms
 

So in summary, what's your Idea/Qn or Concern/Criticism? (the latter has to based on known facts)

Buzzwords
 

Some concerns and questions, hopefully factual enough.

Regarding the "other half"

What is called by jolla "a mobile revolution"¹ seems to fit the description of regular auto-run functionality wrt. hot-plugable media. The functionality implies a USB interface connection (or similar) to the back cover. This could also provide extended functionality such as a better camera/flash, buttons or a bigger battery², if the circuitry powering the USB port supports it.

- What kind of interface is used for the "other half" and how deep is the level of interaction with the device developers can expect? For example would we be able to connect our own devices/hardware and load our own drivers for them? Or will we only be able to use ready-made hooks provided by the SDK to access predermined types of functionality like changing color?

- According to ² the interface will be "open to third parties". Does this include the community
at large or only "partners", with no detailed information on protocols freely available otherwise?

Regarding the OS and UI

Judging from the quote above and other PR, Jolla seems to focus on individualizing the look and feel of one's personal phone to one's own liking (being "unlike" via "Ambiance").

- Does jolla's concept of "being unlike" extend beyond choosing a different color theme for the UI and what constitutes inserting a memory card with your music on it, or "is that it"?

Jolla seems strongly highlight their Ambiance feature when talking about their product, implying a strong opinion about how the UI should look and be used.

- Can we modify (manually/with custom apps if need be) other aspects of the UI in ways usually considering theming, or will the look/workings of the UI be locked down to prevent a non-Sailfish look? Examples would be changing icons, indicator placement, changing the layout of kinds of information displayed on the different view panels (feeds view, status menu etc).

¹ Jolla.com
² http://pocketnow.com/2013/05/20/joll...ew-marc-dillon

Re: Sailfish(Jolla): Ideas/Qns & Concerns/Criticisms
 

I have the feeling that the smartphone is not yet finished. Although the word that the 100€/40€ not need to invest, but I think just that it is exploited. That is probably the reason why still can not give precise data on CPU / GPU / battery and more.

I do not know why I pre-ordered. Without knowing how the hardware will be at the end.

will it
- 0.3 megapixel front camera? or at times 1.3 or 2 megapixels?
- Video Calls for Skype, Xabber and other?
- Full HD video recording can you do?
Play 720p/1080p videos without stutter -?
- Which video / audio formats are supported?
- If you can install with this display LPS?
- Will it have 1400mAh? or can we look forward to even 2xxx or 3xxx mAh?
- How much earlier the pre-orders will get the smartphone?
- Be the € 100 pre-orders also get the entire box full of covers?
- Veeeery and many other questions.

Re: Sailfish(Jolla): Ideas/Qns & Concerns/Criticisms
 

My concern about other half. If it's NFC, how do they take care of security?

See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Near_f...curity_aspects

Even if it's not NFC, the same question applies.

Re: Sailfish(Jolla): Ideas/Qns & Concerns/Criticisms
 

It is so funny to read all the useless speculations. We have had some good vids where both hardware and software are shown. The rest of the specs will come later... so be happy for now.

Beautiful design, clever in its set-up, so that a back cover can change colour, functionality and add hardware !

No use to gossip or to 'demand' or to be 'disappointed'* in functionality that surpasses the price, the design idea and the software development (for now).
Just try to understand the concept; "The other half" & "Unlike", the open way software partners are encouraged to participate etc. etc.

For now I support the tweets that demand: "Take my money now !"

* All those mobile hardware engineers here that think the bevels are to big :( Tell me, where do you suppose the hardware should go ? Specially the hardware that can be added by the back cover ?

Re: Sailfish(Jolla): Ideas/Qns & Concerns/Criticisms
 

Indeed and unless the frequency it runs on is strongly atenuated by the atmosphere, someone with a high gain antena located at the right chokepoint could have a fieldday even from quite a distance. :)

Re: Sailfish(Jolla): Ideas/Qns & Concerns/Criticisms
 

NFC itself is definitely not secure. They either need to encrypt that communication themselves, or they need to use something else. I just hope they address this issue - many manufacturers simply ignore this.

Re: Sailfish(Jolla): Ideas/Qns & Concerns/Criticisms
 

If a new smartphone does not have NFC the comments are: "Bad fone not even NFC" if it does have NFC the comments are: "NFC... sooooo unsecure this new technology".

@MartinK BS!

Re: Sailfish(Jolla): Ideas/Qns & Concerns/Criticisms
 

LOL. I am suprised people seems care about security risks on very near radio but in same time post private stuff on googlemail, facebook, instagram and paying bills using VISA, mastercard etc.. Now THAT is probadly bigger security holes and personal integrity problems than people come to near a phone and steal some private stuff from your phone.

However I agree its important with security in anyway.

Re: Sailfish(Jolla): Ideas/Qns & Concerns/Criticisms
 

@mikecomputing: Jolla needs to be competitive. Competing on privacy/security (in addition to other things of course) gives them an advantage, since many ignore this completely.

Using NFC doesn't preclude keeping the result secure. Just don't send the data in open over it. Encrypt, and then send it over NFC. No rocket science. But... You need to pay attention to this in order to get the right result. I was saying that most manufacturers don't do it.

Re: Sailfish(Jolla): Ideas/Qns & Concerns/Criticisms
 

I think you should be worried more if someone plugs a usb into your phone than stealing data through nfc. Distances are too small, and with nfc by itself you can't send but a few bytes, like bt pairing code. If you fear that someone will do that, enable "confirm sharing and connecting" and that's it.

Re: Sailfish(Jolla): Ideas/Qns & Concerns/Criticisms
 

I was thinking about this potential security risk as well. If the other half connection is done via USB it might be even worse since data will probably be loaded or maybe even run automatically from the storage on the back plate.

You could get a similarly colored back plate, prepare it and swap it with the one on the target phone when no one is looking. The owner might not even notice. That way you can later swap it back and retreive saved information if you don't want it to have to send it via any networks.

This would essentially be the case if the connection is USB, with the added benefit of an autorun to exploit.

Certainly the security aspects shouldn't be ignored.

Re: Sailfish(Jolla): Ideas/Qns & Concerns/Criticisms
 

Do you intend to properly support USB host-mode?
http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p...&postcount=526

Re: Sailfish(Jolla): Ideas/Qns & Concerns/Criticisms
 

that jolla signature logo is not that good for my eyes(and other people)

Re: Sailfish(Jolla): Ideas/Qns & Concerns/Criticisms
 

someone's watching Person Of Interest to much :D
While I do agree that privacy and security are important I think that things related to that has gone to far, or at least in wrong direction. And people who are complaining the most are usualy the ones who lives on social networks where everything is publicly available.

Re: Sailfish(Jolla): Ideas/Qns & Concerns/Criticisms
 

Its probably best to wait and see what reasonable and trusted reviewers tell about the device. Based on videos, Jolla is an extension of Harmattan. And although it looks attractive, as did N9 when advertised, there are many concerns:

My concerns are very simple, and these are issues that were deal breakers for N9. Its simple things that make the device usable or not usable, and below issues should be flawless on Jolla to be useful for the masses....which they are targetting to be successful.

1. Does it support ability to change the font systemwide....N9 didnt have it, and lost a lot of customers to it, because the fonts were WAAAy too tiny.

2. Email on N9 was horrible. It would not refresh, would freeze, and sometimes self uninstall itself (stock device). What have they done to improve that?? A corporate guy wants a phone that has flawless connectivity and sync

3. Text input: Very inferior on N9 as compared to other OSs. What have they done to improve text input. Type in English was painful and self correction was wrong many times.

4. Hardware quality. I had four or more N9s...and their quality overall was not good. it ranged from buttons being recessed too much or too little, the flimsy cover door bending and falling off, chipping of polycarbonate....Has JOlla imroved themselves in that department??

5. Calendar, to do syncing: WP8 and iOS are flawless, everything syncs and when I buy a second device, I can sync everything back to the new device flawlessly. N9 couldnt sync anything well, it was truly out of sync experience. What has Jolla team done to remediate this??

6. Lagging and freezing: lagging and freezing was so common on all of my N9s. Most likely a result of unfinished coding. Will Jolla deliver another unfinished product? To me, that would be suicidal for the company

7. Support: Nokia support was truly bad at the time. Jolla, a tiny company will need to partner with someone to provide support. Will it be there?

8. Jolla pedigree: If these are the same guys that brought us half polished Maemo and Harmattan OSs, what has changed in their DNA? Did leaving NOKIA truly change their ability to code finished products or will they always carry with themselves the handicap of poor and unfinished coding?? Its like contractors in Texas, changing company names, but building same shoddy homes....

In my view, as a regular phone user, Jolla has the burden of proof that is pretty high. I dont envy their position, the bar is high, and hopefully they realize it. I dont hear them admit mistakes with Harmattan and that is not a good sign. Unless they can openly criticize what was wrong in the past, and confront those mistakes, they will not be able to move towards the future of making phones for the masses.

Re: Sailfish(Jolla): Ideas/Qns & Concerns/Criticisms
 

I will regretfully have to agree with points 2, 4, 6 and 7

However I completely disagree with point 8 as they delivered an awesome product given the little budget and *hostile* environment.

I also noticed no problems with syncing.

Number one is okay for me, though I wouldn't mind extra customisation. I don't believe it lost too many customers though. Most of the people complaining about the fonts on this forum was, ehm, you.

EDIT: Ok, though I still believe that confirming or disagreeing with a concern adds to the value of the thread.

Re: Sailfish(Jolla): Ideas/Qns & Concerns/Criticisms
 

Thanks qwazix for you comments, although can we please keep this thread purely for what it's intended, no follow-up arguments, please.
We intend to resurrect what was originally planned here, although I have my doubts it's worthwhile, it's still better than not at all, I guess.

EDIT:
Actually he got things off-track in the 1st place, not you, because any Concerns/Criticisms are supposed to be based on known facts that relate directly to Sailfish or the 1st device
Although his list could possibly be considered part of Ideas/Qns, in which case it's a valid contribution...

Re: Sailfish(Jolla): Ideas/Qns & Concerns/Criticisms
 

can we have screen transition effect while swiping from bezel?

Re: Sailfish(Jolla): Ideas/Qns & Concerns/Criticisms
 

As swipe down to close is unavailable due to the pulley menu, and closing applications appears to be exclusively via the task switcher screen, how about they have a system wide top option on the pulley menu for close app? This could be coupled with a special stronger tactile feedback of it's own, giving the user a warning if you like, that the app is about to close and make it distinct from other options on the pulley.

Re: Sailfish(Jolla): Ideas/Qns & Concerns/Criticisms
 

There is swipe down to close.
And why the heck should that collide with pulley menu?

Re: Sailfish(Jolla): Ideas/Qns & Concerns/Criticisms
 

yes,

swipe from bezel from top to bottom to close

pulley menu is the top menu at the top part of an app

he or she is confused

hope we see some ui tutorial advertisement from jolla or its fans

Re: Sailfish(Jolla): Ideas/Qns & Concerns/Criticisms
 

If I'm wrong, then great, I'm sure I've read here on tmo and other places (eg this old blog) that it was out.
Edit: Thanks @youmeego I (and the blogger) am obviously confused as to what the pulley menu is!

Re: Sailfish(Jolla): Ideas/Qns & Concerns/Criticisms
 

Think the pulley menu as a replacement for bottom bar on harmattan apps.

Stuff like settings, help or about could be there. Also stuff like refresh or even quit if you want it there (like wazapp).

Re: Sailfish(Jolla): Ideas/Qns & Concerns/Criticisms
 

I think you'll find that pulley menus are somewhat more innovative than this.

Re: Sailfish(Jolla): Ideas/Qns & Concerns/Criticisms
 

Install the emulator and you give some hints how some of the stuff is working atleast.