Re: Sailfish(Jolla): Ideas/Qns & Concerns/Criticisms
 

Nemo itself is probably moving to use Zephyr: https://wiki.merproject.org/wiki/Zephyr
if that's what you meant by the "new OS".

Re: Sailfish(Jolla): Ideas/Qns & Concerns/Criticisms
 

I have been following the jolla thread now moved to off-topic and this one and I don't think this has been posted yet, apologies if I've overlooked something:

" Jolla Answers Your Sailfish Questions "
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nW0hnHJTFGM

They mention landscape mode. Found on reddit.com/r/jolla.

Their mention of their OS running on the Ericsson Snowball made me check up on that board, and I kinda want one now...

I remember them saying there'd be an "enthusiast" version as well. Can't find a source atm though...

Re: Sailfish(Jolla): Ideas/Qns & Concerns/Criticisms
 

Thanks. Looks like - there is no swipe down to close (there is only close through long pressing) and no landscape mode in the home screen (at least yet).

Swipe down to close is a really good thing to have (it shouldn't be so hard to implement, and the idea is simple and very intuitive).

Re: Sailfish(Jolla): Ideas/Qns & Concerns/Criticisms
 

The last YouTube video shows that swipe application to home screen can be done in 4 directions. So, swipe down to close could not be used.

IMHO, the Sailfish OS doesn't enforce to close softwares, but to have up to 9 applications "open" in miniature mode (like super-widgets). Anyway, to close softwares like in Maemo 5 is easy enough.

Last but not the least : THERE IS native X Terminal ! :cool:

Re: Sailfish(Jolla): Ideas/Qns & Concerns/Criticisms
 

I'd prefer this to be configurable, since using all 4 directions for the same action sounds too redundant, and limiting in what those directions could be used for. A smart thing to do would be some built in configuration framework for defining exact actions for such directions. It'd give the users a flexible choice to adjust the experience any way they like. Just my 2 cents.

Closing an application shouldn't be hard (i.e. consist out more than one action), even if the system encourages multitasking. Compare it to the desktop which is fully multitasked. Yet, closing an application is clicking a close button (one action). Mobile shouldn't be any harder, and swipe to close is an ingenious method for that.

Re: Sailfish(Jolla): Ideas/Qns & Concerns/Criticisms
 

This thread is alive and seems the right one to post my concern:

Unless they have live-updated last few terminal lines as miniature for xterm with swipe right "up,enter" and swipe left ctrl-c, I don't like the lack of preview on the minimised apps. If they give a tool for every app config this could be cool (UI swipes should also be configurable, which gives 8 swipes for usage, half-swipes running opacity could be used for shortcuts etc). Hope their terminal's got full font and geometry control.

Re: Sailfish(Jolla): Ideas/Qns & Concerns/Criticisms
 

I'd like to see something handled BETTER--not just the same things we've already seen from Android (who seems to be getting more and more OPEN-sourced and only getting better) and from Maemo and MeeGo (which went more and more CLOSED-source and only got worse). It's not making a convincing case for preferring Jolla.

It's all still in talks at this point and I'm not involved but, as a potential customer, I want to be convinced that this is a product I want or that I want to develop for or recommend to customers and friends. What I'm reading so far hasn't instilled confidence in me that this is the next hot thing I want to invest in or recommend.

Re: Sailfish(Jolla): Ideas/Qns & Concerns/Criticisms
 

danramos,

You can join #jollamobile at freenode and give your views; they would be heard and put into their conscience better than putting it here...

Re: Sailfish(Jolla): Ideas/Qns & Concerns/Criticisms
 

Here's fine too, it helps to "get the juices flowing" for what goes into the docs, which will eventually be formally presented to them.

Re: Sailfish(Jolla): Ideas/Qns & Concerns/Criticisms
 

I wouldn't be so sure about that, code has gradually become more liberalised*, but there's far more considerations than just that, I'm surprised you're not aware of them.
I won't go into them because that's dragging this thread off-topic, we're trying to keep this focused on it's original charter, so please don't go any further into it.
Unless you can make a compelling argument as-to-why Google's rigidity in the area(s) I'm not broaching, is a positive thing that Sailfish also needs to adopt/mimic.

meego never went more closed, the plan was always to transition from a more closed harmattan (maemo 6x) to a more open meego, they never got even close to that before everything was torpedoed.

Same here... But by the same token I'm not expecting it to be at that point yet...

*N.B. the last assessment done still had it a fair way behind the likes of real meego (not harmattan) from a code transparency POV.

Re: Sailfish(Jolla): Ideas/Qns & Concerns/Criticisms
 

It's not their's but Jolla is one of the biggest contributors to Nemo/Mer.

Re: Sailfish(Jolla): Ideas/Qns & Concerns/Criticisms
 

So going back to the last question, do you think it's OK to send the current list to Jolla as is? My feeling is, they won't be able to answer any hardware related questions yet. On the other hand, we can clarify, that they can just skip whatever they can't answer, may be they can answer something after all.

If everyone feels it's OK, I'm compiling the list into a PDF (skipping answered questions) and sending the list to Jolla tomorrow.

Re: Sailfish(Jolla): Ideas/Qns & Concerns/Criticisms
 

i am okay with the list..but “standardized icon pack / design across the OS” question should be answered in any way..because current icon really made Sailfish looks much like Android.

example of standardized icon pack/design : Nokia N9's icon itself

Re: Sailfish(Jolla): Ideas/Qns & Concerns/Criticisms
 

I appreciate the tip, but it would be in their best interest to actively seek out opinions. After the Nokia burn, I'm particularly disenchanted with going out of my way anymore.

I'm not going to start involving myself in IRC (I stopped IRC'ing many years ago.. now going to bother now) just for the sake of saving them the trouble of looking at my previous comment. If they want to do the same thing Nokia did and not bother to do some research themselves, then it would serve them right to lose by doing the same things Nokia did all over again--Nokia as a company didn't bother coming to talk.maemo.org to find out what the MAEMO.ORG people think, they rightfully lost a whole community for it... People who would have helped and probably evangelized their platform if they had bothered to listen. Making customers go through inconvenient hoops doesn't win their hearts and minds--if anything, they should be going out of their way to ask potential customers about their wants and needs. They are a business--they're SUPPOSED to be in the business of filling needs and profiting from it. A good business constantly seeks out metrics and asks opinions from their customers to help with constant improvement.

That's a pretty good effort and it's appreciated. Thanks! Really, the company should have someone doing this, so I can appreciate it even more.

Without citing what you're talking about, I have no reference for an argument. Near as I can tell, there's more openness with the Linux kernel, the operating system and about the only rigidity is in its license--which is no more or less rigid than GPLv3 as far as I can tell. can you be more specific? In any case, such debate seems relevant to Jolla if we're talking about how to go about these things.

Re: Sailfish(Jolla): Ideas/Qns & Concerns/Criticisms
 

I'm going to have a look through it tonight or tomorrow eve, it looks like it's been changed A LOT since I last fiddled with it approx. 3 days ago.
I hope relevant stuff hasn't been removed completely, I will check the edit history...
I don't think we should leave anything out on the assumption that they probably can't answer it, if they don't, well it can remain in the docs.
Sending it off tomorrow (25th for most of the western world, 26th here) was the originally set date IIRC.
Are we going to run it all past stskeeps, do we really need to send it via PDF or just a link to the docs, am I the one still sending it?
Also zwer (AKA as incognito @MNB/elsewhere) has some excellent thoughts/observations, I'd love to see him add some input before it's sent.

Is that already raised (I can't recall) in the doc? If not then please make sure it's added.

So if you know that to be true, please explain it in more detail in the concerns/criticisms doc, so that they can respond & explain why that's the case, if it is.

There's another one for you, please check they're not already in the doc, & then ask them a series of Qns* relating to how it differs from the OHA's licensing/TOA.

*or add them to concerns/criticisms if you think that doc's more relevant, but generally you have to know much more about Sailfish/Jolla 1st.

Re: Sailfish(Jolla): Ideas/Qns & Concerns/Criticisms
 

I think they preferred a PDF sent to their contact e-mail. If you are sending it - please, go ahead, we just shouldn't send it twice to avoid confusion. You can include Stskeels as cc just to be sure it won't get lost somewhere, and as a confirmation that it comes from the community.

Re: Sailfish(Jolla): Ideas/Qns & Concerns/Criticisms
 

^Please see my updated post, above...

That was stskeeps assertion, simply because he felt it was more professional/presentable IIRC.

Re: Sailfish(Jolla): Ideas/Qns & Concerns/Criticisms
 

I'd trust his assertions on this.

Re: Sailfish(Jolla): Ideas/Qns & Concerns/Criticisms
 

I'm slightly lost; can questions that are redundant be taken out from the google doc while others improved? I'll post some examples:


(can this be phrased better to ask them how many contracts have they signed or are close to signing and if possible a regional breakdown)


(could be changed to whether the Jolla phone will be having a LPM screen)


(could be changed to please detail what sort of user privacy framework you have mentioned)


(modify to ask whether official Skype Video Calls support)


Maybe change this to ask for a native one; the n9 didn't ship with one but there was one before launch day in the Store...


(maybe elaborate to ask if you will be using their latest cutting-edge SoCs since we know its dead certain they will use them in the Jolla phone)


(merge with above ST-Ericcson question as this is a SoC question)


Above are my two cents; please don't jump :p


Edit: The concerns/criticisms doc seems to have been covered in the questions/ideas doc in maybe little change of phrasing so maybe merge them to have one doc named "Jolla dossier from TMO"?

Re: Sailfish(Jolla): Ideas/Qns & Concerns/Criticisms
 

Fair enough, that's all I recall his rationale being, maybe I'm forgetting some other aspects he raised.
And even if that's it, as you say, maybe it's worthwhile just going with that alone as the rationale.

Remember we don't have the rush we once did, as we've since learned that a product reveal won't happen till Q1 2013.
The reason we wanted to send it 2-3 days after the conference originally, was because we wanted to get it to them long before the product reveal in Dec.

Re: Sailfish(Jolla): Ideas/Qns & Concerns/Criticisms
 

I agree - no rush. Do you propose to postpone sending it out until we get more questions? I don't think there is a problem with sending them in batches. The list is quite long as is. Making it even longer will burden Jolla to review it all at once.

Re: Sailfish(Jolla): Ideas/Qns & Concerns/Criticisms
 

Batches may be a good idea, we could stick to the same date (or close) for the 1st batch, Jolla/Sailfish is prolly more likely to answer stuff in "dribs & drabs", what does everyone else think.

Re: Sailfish(Jolla): Ideas/Qns & Concerns/Criticisms
 

1 batch = 1 page of the doc and we can send 1 page per week. It will be easier to track q&a this way, i think ;)

Re: Sailfish(Jolla): Ideas/Qns & Concerns/Criticisms
 

IMO sort out the most important questions and send them those first...

Honestly, reading thru the doc there are some questions that are not really that important to be answered like now so those can go in the later batches...1 page or not I don't know; maybe 10 questions per batch?

Re: Sailfish(Jolla): Ideas/Qns & Concerns/Criticisms
 

Send everything. They answer what they want and if we send everything we might get more answers, plus who has the right to decided what questions are most important. Leave that to jolla.

Re: Sailfish(Jolla): Ideas/Qns & Concerns/Criticisms
 

Here's my little idea about solving a jollas ui problem of being able to display only limited number (4-9) of currently running apps when minimized.

I came up with an idea of combining these two screens of a n9 ui - launcher icons screen and minimized apps screen. They essentially are the same - both display an app on its various states of activity, be it closed or unactive or running on background or even stalled.

Thats it, then there will be more room to dedicated swipable views for system status or widgets and feeds. I hope Jollas developers consider this.

To me implementing it seems more of a graphic design problem of how to fit together apps icons along with bigger (and live) minimized applications tiles.

Re: Sailfish(Jolla): Ideas/Qns & Concerns/Criticisms
 

CDE has that "minimize to desktop" idea.

Re: Sailfish(Jolla): Ideas/Qns & Concerns/Criticisms
 

I don't pretend to be first ever to thought about this, just jollas vertically swipable screens instead of n9s horizontally swipable screens, to me seem like ugly compromise due to some probable software patent issue with copying nokias meego ui too closely.

Making apps icons at launcher screen to morph into live tiles when app is running should solve this, just my 2 cents.

Re: Sailfish(Jolla): Ideas/Qns & Concerns/Criticisms
 

Please note that Sailfish UI components sources might be released in a close future (matter of weeks). We heard it at Slush from several sources.

Please confirm qwazix

Re: Sailfish(Jolla): Ideas/Qns & Concerns/Criticisms
 

So far the last info on that was: "UI licensing is still under discussion". So let's wait for the official update on that before speculating.

Re: Sailfish(Jolla): Ideas/Qns & Concerns/Criticisms
 

Jolla why u dont modify the multitasking view???
i think that if you add more Desktop panel view (instead of scrolling down Desktop to see launcher) near multitasking view. Then when you open fifth application, Sailfish add other Desktop view in the right side ( cause left side swipe turn to back )
Will be nice..in order to avoid filling the only multitasking window with resized (3x3, 2x2) windows like in N9



i think

Re: Sailfish(Jolla): Ideas/Qns & Concerns/Criticisms
 

michdeskunk,

Currently that view is scalable for 9 apps and they are looking at alternatives FYI...

IMO there shouldn't be a limit and only the resources available should limit it...

Re: Sailfish(Jolla): Ideas/Qns & Concerns/Criticisms
 

Have jolla recevied the doc yet or whats going on?

Can I do anything to speed up the process?

Re: Sailfish(Jolla): Ideas/Qns & Concerns/Criticisms
 

Yeah, what's the conclusion? Are we sending the list now or not?

Re: Sailfish(Jolla): Ideas/Qns & Concerns/Criticisms
 

We already agreed yest (?) that there's plenty of time now*, so we're not sending it 3-days after conf. as originally planned, see earlier posts, you were posting then.
What we were still contemplating, is sending a partial doc imminently, and you were in disagreement with that.

*no more reveal in December, as Jolla originally claimed.


I was thinking I may lock it soon, leave it read-only (& commentable) for all with or without a direct link, & give access to those who are interested in helping with:

*Adding new content (using this thread/elsewhere, ensuring it's relevant & not already in the docs)
*Removing redundant/crap content (we must be sure of this, it's probably best to discuss here 1st)
*Answering points that already have answers (ditto)
*General formatting, grammar, punctuation etc.

Those who'd like to help can simply PM me their Google account/email* & I'd grant them access...
As for sending-off a "batch" imminently, I'm not really convinced of that, doesn't seem like a huge amount to me, I reckon Jolla/Sailfish can deal with it in one batch.
I reckon we send it in one big doc, aim for 11th Dec (2wk) or wait till new yr after most holidays are finished, say around Jan 8th? (6wk).

Night.
*if you don't have one set-up a temporary one, it's piss-easy.

Re: Sailfish(Jolla): Ideas/Qns & Concerns/Criticisms
 

So, input on this please. Thank-you.

Re: Sailfish(Jolla): Ideas/Qns & Concerns/Criticisms
 

Favorite features of n900

- Open platform
- FM Transmitter
- email, chat clients at least as good as n900
- fbreader, gpodder, pdf reader, grr, keepass, vim
- some kind of maps (could be google) offline would be good
- big screen, swap-able battery
- keyboard optional

Thanks!

Owner: n700, n800, n900, android n1, android nexus s, nexus x, nexus 7, asus transformer, kobo, & half dozen ubuntu devices

Re: Sailfish(Jolla): Ideas/Qns & Concerns/Criticisms
 

Have anybody asked what's the default browser rendering engine? Webkit? Or maybe Opera?

Re: Sailfish(Jolla): Ideas/Qns & Concerns/Criticisms
 

People willing to "put their hands up" for this?
It only takes a few people willing to do a little bit "here & there".
So far we've only had one person...

Thoughts on this?...
Perhaps we could aim to have a 1st half (or thereabouts) sent to them by about the 11th, & a final 2nd half by about the 8th.

Re: Sailfish(Jolla): Ideas/Qns & Concerns/Criticisms
 

You can count me in for a little bit here and there :D

Yup I think let's just go all-in send one big doc to them by 11th Dec...The earlier the better IMO...