Re: Sailfish(Jolla): Ideas/Qns & Concerns/Criticisms
 

I've actually heard that Ericsson is withdrawing from some of its partnership business with ST, since ST is under-performing.

Re: Sailfish(Jolla): Ideas/Qns & Concerns/Criticisms
 

Nope, that's not the rationale I was given, far from it, I CBF'd pasting the entire convo, besides it was private.
We should've conversed here, alas that's not the way the convo evolved, so I won't post the entire thing unless I'm allowed to.

Re: Sailfish(Jolla): Ideas/Qns & Concerns/Criticisms
 

is it because jolla don't know the answers to the questions themselves?

Re: Sailfish(Jolla): Ideas/Qns & Concerns/Criticisms
 

That's part of the rationale offered IIRC...

Re: Sailfish(Jolla): Ideas/Qns & Concerns/Criticisms
 

Maybe because they only working with mer and Nemo communities like in the answer to the open letter?

Re: Sailfish(Jolla): Ideas/Qns & Concerns/Criticisms
 

Who knows, I'll wait for Tim or Council/BoD to provide their full explanation here, rather than rehash exactly what was said.

Re: Sailfish(Jolla): Ideas/Qns & Concerns/Criticisms
 

I am waiting for tim&co as well. Meanwhile Give me a lead.

All this sneaky sneak is useless. If you can't tell everything you don't have to say anything. The truth is the ****. Please bring it.

Re: Sailfish(Jolla): Ideas/Qns & Concerns/Criticisms
 

Maybe you should contact them primary via F*ckbook or Twitter... maybe it's faster that way!? :D I heard they are spending most of their PR / Comms time on those two channels anyway. I mean, "unlike" us... just refer to http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p...91&postcount=5 :rolleyes:

Re: Sailfish(Jolla): Ideas/Qns & Concerns/Criticisms
 

Ahh. Thanks Don. You solved it. They are too bissy twitter a twit. No time for customers.

Re: Sailfish(Jolla): Ideas/Qns & Concerns/Criticisms
 

No no no, I'm sure it's because the one engineer who's supposed to talk to us is Qgil... and he already knows us. ;)

Re: Sailfish(Jolla): Ideas/Qns & Concerns/Criticisms
 

:confused: Isn't Qgil supposed to be at Wikimedia Foundation not Jolla?

Re: Sailfish(Jolla): Ideas/Qns & Concerns/Criticisms
 

A bit of self-deprecating sarcasm, lad.

Re: Sailfish(Jolla): Ideas/Qns & Concerns/Criticisms
 

I hate to say it, but I think Ubuntu has got their **** together far better than Sailfish/Jolla....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=cpWHJDLsqTU
Sure their phone's not due till Q4 or Q1 2014, but everything is just far more organised/cohesive...
Their community's far more massive & better coordinated such that, by the time they do have it on their own hw, it'll be way more solid than Sailfish.
I reckon this time next year we'll hear about Ubuntu tracking quite well, but Sailfish/Jolla really starting to struggle, I hope I'm very wrong though.

Re: Sailfish(Jolla): Ideas/Qns & Concerns/Criticisms
 

..and if yes, hopefully an compatible fork will be done. I don't "trust" / really want Canonical's stuff.

Re: Sailfish(Jolla): Ideas/Qns & Concerns/Criticisms
 

One has to give to Canonical - they can make good PR campaign. Jolla has still something to learn in this regard. PR however doesn't equate the good product and eventual success. But it wouldn't hurt for Jolla to build their public relations more solidly.

Re: Sailfish(Jolla): Ideas/Qns & Concerns/Criticisms
 

I got a PM from stskeeps a few days ago that we should proceed with our original plans regardless...
As it's clear that the BoD's method of approach is quite different to what we'd originally planned/discussed.*
He said to just put it all in a PDF(s) & send it to press@jolla.com + CC two other addresses (I'll PM them to anyone who's interested in taking the reins).
I responded asking; "Isn't it best we go via BoD/Council?" but I've not had a response yet....

*Much of my PM discussion with timsamof I CC'd to stskeeps & the two main editors, but not the last several PM's.

Re: Sailfish(Jolla): Ideas/Qns & Concerns/Criticisms
 

They may have it a bit more 'together' than you even realize and may come far sooner than you think:
http://www.tomshardware.com/news/Ubu...oid,20305.html

Re: Sailfish(Jolla): Ideas/Qns & Concerns/Criticisms
 

I'd say if council will do it so slowly, we better send it as planned before. Jolla knows the situation in general, and they don't need too much formalities like communication through the council only.

Re: Sailfish(Jolla): Ideas/Qns & Concerns/Criticisms
 

Well yes it was already well-known that the images are coming very soon, I wasn't specifically referring to just that though, they "seem" more together for a whole raft of factors/reasons.

So does anyone want to run with it? I thought I'd be a lot less busy at the start of this yr but it's not looking that way, I suspect I can't be much more than a spectator.
As we get answers (or at least clarifications) I'll move them from the docs to a Wiki*, time permitting, & assuming I haven't been beaten to that task!

*maemo.org wiki still foobared? If so then we may have to convince Sailfish to allow access to theirs.

Re: Sailfish(Jolla): Ideas/Qns & Concerns/Criticisms
 

If you think you can do a good job of it I'll give you access to finish-off:

*Removing duplicate/redundant content (if any) & improve clarity of existing content
*Moving answered content elsewhere (maybe dump it all into a Google doc until we have a suitable Wiki)
*Adding new content (if you can see anything that's missing)
*Converting the entire thing to 2 PDF's & sending them to 3 addresses (some leads on how to do that is here)

Re: Sailfish(Jolla): Ideas/Qns & Concerns/Criticisms
 

Dave999: Can you please stop spreading the off-topic to this thread? It's supposed to be focused.

jalyst: I can make a PDF and send them to Jolla (I already proposed to do it a while ago, but it was put on hold).

Re: Sailfish(Jolla): Ideas/Qns & Concerns/Criticisms
 

You can call it an unlike way Dave ;)


In another line of questioning, I am wondering what Jolla and the Sailfish group stance is on ensuring that are using ethically sourced materials for their devices? And if they can be confident of their manufacturers and partners are also keeping up with the ethical trade policies for their sources too?

That will probably need better wording to be honest, but you get the idea :)

Re: Sailfish(Jolla): Ideas/Qns & Concerns/Criticisms
 

I think that's the least of their concerns at this nascent stage, they can hardly afford to be demanding/picky like other juggernauts of the industry.

Shmerl to the rescue again, thanks buddy, take your time to get it right, it still won't take as long as the BoD seemingly will.

Re: Sailfish(Jolla): Ideas/Qns & Concerns/Criticisms
 

Guys, please be patient! First of all, the BoD has to give time for community comments to come in and percolate. It was only yesterday that Jolla agreed to support a Sailfish on N900 project. Also, we've already had to say this to other members. The community has to stick together in its external communications in order to be as effective as possible. I hope you see from Jolla's response to the first letter that this won't be easy. At some point, we hope to have a President who will be responsible, but for now, if you have concerns, please email board@hildonfoundation.org.

Re: Sailfish(Jolla): Ideas/Qns & Concerns/Criticisms
 

Effective can also mean timely communication. I think enough time has passed to deliver the current list to Jolla, since it also contains proposals and ideas, not just questions.

Re: Sailfish(Jolla): Ideas/Qns & Concerns/Criticisms
 

That last sentence of mine sounded rude, apologies if any offence was caused, not my intent.

BoD/Council has other things they need to focus on, primarily, not what the intent/focus of this thread is.
I had a lengthy chat with timsamof & the approach he outlined was very different to what we'd planned here.
We have a good system in place that has the potential serve us well, I think we should proceed.

At the very least we need an update & open dialogue here soon, not just in mail-lists etc...
So that everyone can: "hear from the horses mouth", agree/disagree with the new plan, suggest new or replacement ideas.
Instead of me relaying "supposed convos", which I'm reluctant to do anyway....

Re: Sailfish(Jolla): Ideas/Qns & Concerns/Criticisms
 

That is an interesting point. We all know how many of the larger companies can handle fair trade and the ethical treatment of their staff...

Companies such as Nokia, Samsung, Sony (etc...) plough hundreds of millions in to the manufacturing industry to ensure good practices are met from the sourcing of raw materials to welfare of their staff.

However, here we have a rather unique chance to gain an insight into how a new start-up company who have the backing to meet high production figures are challenging this very subject, especially with a "limited" budget. Now of course I know they will not have the funding to donate back into the industry but are they actively seeking to have production from more ethically responsible manufacturers?

This can also be applied to the Sailfish organisation too as they seek out others to use the OS. Would Sailfish expect their prospective partners to meet any certain criteria before being accepted in to the group?

It would be interesting to hear their views on the topic and if they have addressed this as a concern.

Re: Sailfish(Jolla): Ideas/Qns & Concerns/Criticisms
 

Some news vis-a-vis Ubuntu & Sailfish: http://aseigo.blogspot.com.au/2013/0...-together.html

Re: Sailfish(Jolla): Ideas/Qns & Concerns/Criticisms
 

So I saw some of the BoD reading this thread when I was posting #226, any chance we can get a bit of a dialogue/exchange going soon? TY.

Still think it's asking way too much at this early stage, if you push & push them about it they may eventually spit out some marketing spiel to sound okay in this area, but in reality there's little they can afford to do compared to others. There's other way more important things they need to focus on 1st, LOTS of little things that ensure they have success with their 1st few products, THEN they can focus on this area more heavily & in a truly effective manner. But, by all means add it to the doc if you think it's massively important...

Sounds great, but I doubt some of the high ideals he espouses there will ever truly be reached, sadly, same sort of stuff has been tooted many times in the past to no avail.
IMO Ubuntu/Sailfish/PA/BBX native dev will remain mostly separate, not ever "seamless", & even if it ever finally reaches that (lofty) goal, it'll probably be too late to matter.
I'd be very glad to be wrong about that though....

Re: Sailfish(Jolla): Ideas/Qns & Concerns/Criticisms
 

I'm still waiting on those ubuntu tvs annouced last year lol. Without hardware partners Ubuntu phone wont go very far. Our best hope is still jolla IMO

Re: Sailfish(Jolla): Ideas/Qns & Concerns/Criticisms
 

Are you sure? How's CyanogenMod doing without hardware partners, for example? This is especially apt, considering they've decided to flagship this on the Galaxy Nexus--a very popular device that was also INTENDED for such hackery. What's Jolla using as their flagship?

Re: Sailfish(Jolla): Ideas/Qns & Concerns/Criticisms
 

They've said various platforms, the only ones you ever hear about is N9/950, but pop into the relevant IRC channels, mail-lists etc & you'll see them playing around with other hw.

Re: Sailfish(Jolla): Ideas/Qns & Concerns/Criticisms
 

Firefox OS supposedly has ZTE on-board for at least one phone this year, in conjunction with some major EU carrier...
Not sure where Unbuntu's at with that, last I checked they still didn't have anything concrete IIRC, but I'm sure they will soon enough.
Anyway all this is very off-topic, keep the ideas coming for the docs please....

Looking increasingly likely that BoD will avoid discussions here, & not seek engagement with those who use TMO to exchange ideas/thoughts :(
Hopefully timsamof et al are just busy & do plan to outline their next step(s) in carrying this initiative forward, & be responsive to feedback on that.

Re: Sailfish(Jolla): Ideas/Qns & Concerns/Criticisms
 

*BUMP* @timsamof

Only when you've got a bit of time to engage with folks here ofc.

Thank-you!

Re: Sailfish(Jolla): Ideas/Qns & Concerns/Criticisms
 

@shmerl, Are you still going to proceed with this?
In the meantime someone else has already presented a whole bunch of Qns to Jolla, even though we've been preparing ours for way longer.
http://www.allboutn9.info/2013/01/fa...ilfish-os.html

Re: Sailfish(Jolla): Ideas/Qns & Concerns/Criticisms
 

Yes, I was waiting for forum to come back up. I'll send the list this week.

It seems to me 'someone' who published these questions just took our list and presented them as their own without even discussing it. I find it disrespectful. However we can now mark the questions which were answered there in the list, to avoid sending the answered ones. I'll go over it.

Re: Sailfish(Jolla): Ideas/Qns & Concerns/Criticisms
 

Looks like 'Someone' owns an answer here. Why so much aggression? I already wrote you back on http://www.allboutn9.info/2013/01/fa...ilfish-os.html - before others think they can rant on our website.

Our article has nothing to do with TMO and if you had read from the beginning you would have seen this phrase:

"We picked out some of the best frequently asked questions on Jolla's official Twitter account and listened them here."

Yes that's the source. I went (it took quiet some time!) through Jolla's Twitter account, selecting the best questions and answer - especially because I saw people were asking the same over and over. In case you need proof, simply visit their account. You'll find every single answer there. BTW, we are very serious about sources - TMO has always been mentioned when necessary.

Not only TMO talks about Jolla...the world is bigger than that. The dumbest the small MeeGo/Sailfish community could to is to fight about such things. So let's be smart and stop that.

Re: Sailfish(Jolla): Ideas/Qns & Concerns/Criticisms
 

No aggression, but questions look way too similar. Anyway, end result still helps, since some questions were answered.

Re: Sailfish(Jolla): Ideas/Qns & Concerns/Criticisms
 

At least an excuse could be expected. I haven't gone through this thread yet, but I can imagine that the questions would be similar. Don't we all have the same or at least similar questions...? But I hope that TMO comes up with some more specific questions concerning development/system etc.

Those questions were already answered a while ago - I collected & united them to one page. Feel free to scroll all the way down on https://twitter.com/JollaMobile. Furthermore check out https://sailfishos.org/wiki/Main_Page (I hope Jolla won't be accused for stealing answer from here). In case you find just 1 single answer on our page which isn't listened in those 2 sources, I'm ready to talk.

This behaviour is unacceptable & a shame for TMO (saying that as a donator & supporter of TMO - despite not being very active in here due own projects).

Re: Sailfish(Jolla): Ideas/Qns & Concerns/Criticisms
 

You can review the questions yourself: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1...On-v9TphY/edit

Sorry, I didn't want to sound harsh, but similarity is too strong. Potentially it can be caused by same people asking the same questions in different places. Anyway, we indeed want the same - to get some answers from Jolla, so it's good that they answered some already.