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maemo.org - Talk (https://talk.maemo.org/index.php)
-   Nokia N9 / N950 (https://talk.maemo.org/forumdisplay.php?f=51)
-   -   New Project: Nokia Dali Proto F1: 64 GB storage + 1 GB RAM (https://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=88764)

n950 2013-01-23 16:57
New Project: Nokia Dali Proto F1: 64 GB storage + 1 GB RAM
 
Hello,

Here are pictures of my two devices (letf to right: N950 and ProtoF1)

Specifications:

N950: 1 GB RAM
ProtoF1: 512B MB RAM

I have a new project in mind.

Put the 1 GB RAM of N950 into the ProtoF1.

http://img11.hostingpics.net/pics/514070projecta.jpg

http://img11.hostingpics.net/pics/181799projectb.jpg

nb. is it possible to put 2 GB RAM on the protoF1?
who know if Meego harmattan PR1.2/1.3 support more than 1GB RAM?

Best Regards.

Rusnak-COBRA 2013-01-23 17:05
Re: New Project: Nokia Dali Proto F1: 64 GB storage + 1 GB RAM
 
RAM is on board chip, so that is not possible to "move" or put elsewhere or add or whatever...

n950 2013-01-23 17:09
Re: New Project: Nokia Dali Proto F1: 64 GB storage + 1 GB RAM
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rusnak-COBRA (Post 1317037)
RAM is on board chip, so that is not possible to "move" or put elsewhere or add or whatever...
I think it's possible to unsold RAM and resold RAM. why not?

If not, is it possible to unsold ProtoF1 storage and put on N950, no?

Akkumaru 2013-01-23 17:12
Re: New Project: Nokia Dali Proto F1: 64 GB storage + 1 GB RAM
 
Big risk my friend. And most likely it won't work.

Rusnak-COBRA 2013-01-23 17:15
Re: New Project: Nokia Dali Proto F1: 64 GB storage + 1 GB RAM
 
unsold and sold. hah. think of it. This board has many layers. that is really not so easy, noone would take that risk. you'll need more expensive tools than 3 protos together.

n950 2013-01-23 17:25
Re: New Project: Nokia Dali Proto F1: 64 GB storage + 1 GB RAM
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Akkumaru (Post 1317039)
Big risk my friend. And most likely it won't work.
I know It's a BIG risk but I take this risk !

@all:

Anybody have documents, references and picture about the RAM and Storage inside the phone?

Thanks in advance.

qwazix 2013-01-23 17:27
Re: New Project: Nokia Dali Proto F1: 64 GB storage + 1 GB RAM
 
n950, why don't you try to put 1gb ram onto the N900 where not much harm is done if you fail, and if you succeed once or twice, you try it on the proto.

You'll also be able to sell those N900's easily if you do it.

Rusnak-COBRA 2013-01-23 17:35
Re: New Project: Nokia Dali Proto F1: 64 GB storage + 1 GB RAM
 
have to agree with qwazix. that must be done by someone extremely experienced (because mess up your phone, that even can by done by me, as I repair some phones). he better know what he's doing.

you no need any documents. experienced serviceman would know where to find it on board, as it is visible on top.

n950 2013-01-23 17:36
Re: New Project: Nokia Dali Proto F1: 64 GB storage + 1 GB RAM
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by qwazix (Post 1317047)
n950, why don't you try to put 1gb ram onto the N900 where not much harm is done if you fail, and if you succeed once or twice, you try it on the proto.

You'll also be able to sell those N900's easily if you do it.
Good idea.
But to put 1gb ram into a N900 we need some documents to find the good RAM no?
I prefer to do it with N950.

Rusnak-COBRA 2013-01-23 17:41
Re: New Project: Nokia Dali Proto F1: 64 GB storage + 1 GB RAM
 
N900 is cheap, can be found many phones with USB problems but functional in any other way - so even cheaper :) just one battery needed. many testing can be done.
you need to find some guy working in some quality mobile service. really experienced. and so then he can advise the modul type and if can be replaced.

lorenzo 2013-01-23 18:02
Re: New Project: Nokia Dali Proto F1: 64 GB storage + 1 GB RAM
 
here n9 and n900 schemes if could be useful
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/5c9igop2lr8l5q2/8Bz1eCn9Qd

chenliangchen 2013-01-23 18:07
Re: New Project: Nokia Dali Proto F1: 64 GB storage + 1 GB RAM
 
Why not just buy a 64gb N9 and swap the emmc chip? This should be easier than messing ram. (Although still difficult.) There is already a thread about this BTW.

Rusnak-COBRA 2013-01-23 18:12
Re: New Project: Nokia Dali Proto F1: 64 GB storage + 1 GB RAM
 
give us a link. anyay, chip can be bought, no need to buy N9 and damage it.

chenliangchen 2013-01-23 18:19
Re: New Project: Nokia Dali Proto F1: 64 GB storage + 1 GB RAM
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rusnak-COBRA (Post 1317074)
give us a link. anyay, chip can be bought, no need to buy N9 and damage it.
There are different samsung emmc chips on the market, and you need to match the pins to replace. The safest, I believe is taken from a N9.

Anyway this is the thread. http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=86208

mariusmssj 2013-01-23 18:19
Re: New Project: Nokia Dali Proto F1: 64 GB storage + 1 GB RAM
 
Yeah it's not going to happen sorry without special machinery you won't remove this:
http://images.tweaktown.com/news/2/6...chips_full.jpg

herpderp 2013-01-23 19:14
Re: New Project: Nokia Dali Proto F1: 64 GB storage + 1 GB RAM
 
If you think you have the slightest chance to succeed you are delusional. Plus, you'll ruin two very expensive phones, basically throwing out your money on the window.

Also, I'd say you are already doing that. You demonstrated that you neither have software or hardware knowledge required to operate and hack these phones. Come on, you don't even know the most basic Linux commands, and you can't locate the RAM chip on the PCB.

Artyom 2013-01-23 20:29
Re: New Project: Nokia Dali Proto F1: 64 GB storage + 1 GB RAM
 
this is not possible. it's not a pc motherboard that we're talking about.

don_falcone 2013-01-23 22:00
Re: New Project: Nokia Dali Proto F1: 64 GB storage + 1 GB RAM
 
Just O.M.G. You are definitely not a "Collector", you are something else.
Better leave those Protos alone...

Rusnak-COBRA 2013-01-23 22:09
Re: New Project: Nokia Dali Proto F1: 64 GB storage + 1 GB RAM
 
I just wanna ask. what is such a big problem in using that proto with only 512 RAM?

chenliangchen 2013-01-23 22:14
Re: New Project: Nokia Dali Proto F1: 64 GB storage + 1 GB RAM
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rusnak-COBRA (Post 1317122)
I just wanna ask. what is such a big problem in using that proto with only 512 RAM?
No. Maybe to WP is, but for Linux we can swap. Of course it won't be as quick as real physical RAM but I will not risk my devices for this amount of improving (from swap to real ram)

Not issue at all...

Rusnak-COBRA 2013-01-23 22:15
Re: New Project: Nokia Dali Proto F1: 64 GB storage + 1 GB RAM
 
so I assume you have one too. or you do not talk from yout own experiences?

chenliangchen 2013-01-23 22:22
Re: New Project: Nokia Dali Proto F1: 64 GB storage + 1 GB RAM
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rusnak-COBRA (Post 1317124)
so I assume you have one too. or you do not talk from yout own experiences?
I have a silver, curved and amoled N950 with half ram. Used to have 512mb swap and worked fine. (Slightly lag at around 5 apps) Now I'm trying to swap 1GB.

n950 2013-01-23 22:26
Re: New Project: Nokia Dali Proto F1: 64 GB storage + 1 GB RAM
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by herpderp (Post 1317090)
If you think you have the slightest chance to succeed you are delusional. Plus, you'll ruin two very expensive phones, basically throwing out your money on the window.

Also, I'd say you are already doing that. You demonstrated that you neither have software or hardware knowledge required to operate and hack these phones. Come on, you don't even know the most basic Linux commands, and you can't locate the RAM chip on the PCB.
Don't be bad please.

Rusnak-COBRA 2013-01-23 22:37
Re: New Project: Nokia Dali Proto F1: 64 GB storage + 1 GB RAM
 
I have confirmed by engineer that replacing EMMC chip would be possible /technically/ without any damage done. if those chips are the same from below, can be replaced.

szymeczek34 2013-01-23 22:55
Re: New Project: Nokia Dali Proto F1: 64 GB storage + 1 GB RAM
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by qwazix (Post 1317047)
n950, why don't you try to put 1gb ram onto the N900 where not much harm is done if you fail, and if you succeed once or twice, you try it on the proto.

You'll also be able to sell those N900's easily if you do it.
I must agree. Espiecially that it would awesome to have an n900 with 1gb of ram. I might even think about buying such device. Really, it's not point in modifying these protos. They are worth much more untouched. If you're a collector, keep them. If you want to destroy them or do anything to them, sell them. Seriously, don't do anything to them.

mariusmssj 2013-01-23 23:01
Re: New Project: Nokia Dali Proto F1: 64 GB storage + 1 GB RAM
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rusnak-COBRA (Post 1317133)
I have confirmed by engineer that replacing EMMC chip would be possible /technically/ without any damage done. if those chips are the same from below, can be replaced.
Well yeah if chips are compatible. But they have more than 20 soldered connections you would need to heat them up all at the same time in order to remove the chip.

n950 don't take this to the heart I know people aren't being very supportive of you, but they don't want to you break your two really great devices.

When such chips are soldered they use xray to align the pins on more complex chips


If you still plan to go through with it I wish you best of luck and I really hope you succeed :)

Hurrian 2013-01-23 23:56
Re: New Project: Nokia Dali Proto F1: 64 GB storage + 1 GB RAM
 
Holy ****. This is a sure way to ruin two $1000 devices.

Without very, very expensive soldering stations, with a very careful operator doing the replacement, you'll almost certainly wreck it.

The RAM is literally on top of the CPU, the pins of which are incredibly tiny. You will not get the solder balls on them without the right mask.

Also, cleaning the CPU's POP contacts would be an almighty b***h.

n950 2013-01-24 00:04
Re: New Project: Nokia Dali Proto F1: 64 GB storage + 1 GB RAM
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hurrian (Post 1317150)
Holy ****. This is a sure way to ruin two $1000 devices.

Without very, very expensive soldering stations, with a very careful operator doing the replacement, you'll almost certainly wreck it.

The RAM is literally on top of the CPU, the pins of which are incredibly tiny. You will not get the solder balls on them without the right mask.

Also, cleaning the CPU's POP contacts would be an almighty b***h.
I will not do the work.
A company do the work for me.
I am not mad :p

Rusnak-COBRA 2013-01-24 07:30
Re: New Project: Nokia Dali Proto F1: 64 GB storage + 1 GB RAM
 
company, yes. but how they'll have that soldering mask for balls? mass storage should not be much problem, when someone experienced and careful take care. but RAM? no way!

nonikhanna 2013-01-24 08:01
Re: New Project: Nokia Dali Proto F1: 64 GB storage + 1 GB RAM
 
why...... would you ruin those poor things :( you are a monster. DX

pablocrossa 2013-01-24 09:04
Re: New Project: Nokia Dali Proto F1: 64 GB storage + 1 GB RAM
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hurrian (Post 1317150)
Holy ****. This is a sure way to ruin two $1000 devices.

Without very, very expensive soldering stations, with a very careful operator doing the replacement, you'll almost certainly wreck it.

The RAM is literally on top of the CPU, the pins of which are incredibly tiny. You will not get the solder balls on them without the right mask.

Also, cleaning the CPU's POP contacts would be an almighty b***h.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rusnak-COBRA (Post 1317184)
company, yes. but how they'll have that soldering mask for balls? mass storage should not be much problem, when someone experienced and careful take care. but RAM? no way!
THANK YOU! I was waiting for someone to say this, PoP RAM wouldn't be a good idea to touch :)
Why touch the eMMC too anyways?? I'm an N900 owner and 32 is more than I want (and I have Android and Arch on my eMMC too).

Rusnak-COBRA 2013-01-24 09:07
Re: New Project: Nokia Dali Proto F1: 64 GB storage + 1 GB RAM
 
PoP RAM can be touched. I have seen companies who have machines and ability to do so. But, what will system and SoC do about it? One is HW side, second is compatibility and so on.

N900 has 32GB + up to 64GB (or 32 only?) MicroSD card. N9 & N950 have no SD slot.

I understand what he wants to do and why. I just... use 1GB swap, it will work, even if slow. but that is not for daily usage anyway.

AMD 2013-01-24 09:30
Re: New Project: Nokia Dali Proto F1: 64 GB storage + 1 GB RAM
 
If I am not too late, this is definitely not what a collector does. A collector who has the rarest devices ever would not even come near 'modding' it. If you want to be a 'collector' you should have the devices intact and 'vanilla'. Do not mod them under any circumstances. Or else you won't be called a 'collector'.. That would be a monster. Please, if you want to ruin those beauties.. Give them to someone who would take good care of them.

Akkumaru 2013-01-24 09:42
Re: New Project: Nokia Dali Proto F1: 64 GB storage + 1 GB RAM
 
Depends. Some collectors do modify things they collect for the sake of making it better.

Rusnak-COBRA 2013-01-24 09:46
Re: New Project: Nokia Dali Proto F1: 64 GB storage + 1 GB RAM
 
Thats not collecting then. Thats modding.
I am a collector, with 1000 phones. I do plan to make a museum in Slovakia, about mobile telephony and so on. Just need some support :)

Akkumaru 2013-01-24 10:42
Re: New Project: Nokia Dali Proto F1: 64 GB storage + 1 GB RAM
 
If one collects antique cars, do they just leave it unusable? No, most likely they will repair it and make it better. However, N950 has the devices still working, so no need for a risky mod. My better advice is to just make a swap. It has 64 gb, no?

Saturn 2013-01-24 10:50
Re: New Project: Nokia Dali Proto F1: 64 GB storage + 1 GB RAM
 
Speaking from experience, we do these stuff regularly at work. Here some random comments:

- It is possible to replace the BGA device. The success rate is quite good but we don't do this for operational boards, we can not trust it for long term and reliable operation. We do this only for prototypes that had a mistake. The high cost can be justified there since we cannot wait 2-3 months for building another proto.

- usually we don't reuse devices. It is very difficult not to destroy the chip when it is removed. The cost of the reballing is high and in the end for most devices does cost the same as new.

- no-one uses x-ray to aligh the pins. We use the xray machine for the pre-series production to check the factory and how clean was their job.

If I were you, I wouldn't do this mod unless there was something already broken.
If you going to do it, ask the company to buy a new memory for you. Don't re-use from the other phone.

Hope it helps

mariusmssj 2013-01-24 10:57
Re: New Project: Nokia Dali Proto F1: 64 GB storage + 1 GB RAM
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rusnak-COBRA (Post 1317184)
company, yes. but how they'll have that soldering mask for balls? mass storage should not be much problem, when someone experienced and careful take care. but RAM? no way!
Another question, Isn't the ram module built in the processor chip? just like on raspberry pi(CPU+GPU+RAM on single chip)?

Rusnak-COBRA 2013-01-24 11:15
Re: New Project: Nokia Dali Proto F1: 64 GB storage + 1 GB RAM
 
no, it is no IN processor chip, it is "on" it. search about "PoP"

AMD 2013-01-24 11:24
Re: New Project: Nokia Dali Proto F1: 64 GB storage + 1 GB RAM
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Akkumaru (Post 1317247)
If one collects antique cars, do they just leave it unusable? No, most likely they will repair it and make it better. However, N950 has the devices still working, so no need for a risky mod. My better advice is to just make a swap. It has 64 gb, no?
Yes they do repair it, okay. But unless it is very risky that you might actually ruin it instead of repairing it.


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