maemo.org - Talk - #JollaLoveDay - 20th May

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- - #JollaLoveDay - 20th May - device announcement (https://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=90142)

Hariainm

2013-05-30 20:41

Re: #JollaLoveDay - 20th May - device announcement

I envy your convictions :D

I really don't expect a HWKB included for the 100€ pre-orders. I don't. But I don't like buying smoke, the hidden information. What is it? Why you can't tell us? To be honest i want SailfishOS, the SW, to be released more than the phone, the HW.

And the use of the 100€ voucher, how does it work? When my phone finally arrives, do I have to pay 399-100=299€? Or pay the 399€ full price and the 100€ voucher is for spending in accesories, Jolla App Store and something like that?

And of course Jolla have my interest. I want they to know that. But it's my final decision to pursache or not the phone in base of real facts. Will buy when see.

RX-51

2013-05-30 21:14

Re: #JollaLoveDay - 20th May - device announcement

I pre-purchased at the 100€ level. It's not like getting it 100€ cheaper, just paying in advance to subtract it from the final price.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hariainm (Post 1348120)

And I'm sorry to say that. As I said before, I really want to believe, to be eager for the waiting, and I read a lot of information about jolla and the phone, but... To the moment, they failed at selling it to me.

PD: And sorry for all the rant, but my hopes with the company are slowly fading away as I see the zero professionality, the poorly managed presentations, the lack of proper and useful information... I don't like the "Peter Molyneux" way of selling a product they have choosen.

You got a good point in that I agree on.

mikecomputing

2013-05-30 21:51

Re: #JollaLoveDay - 20th May - device announcement

Forgot to say

100 EUR may seems like much but I see it in other way. I see it at "risky investment" like a stockholding. And as we know alot of people has loosed ALOT more stocks because of the Elop effect, me included.

Compared to that 100EUR is not that much, if I loose, I loose, if i win, I will make apps and hopefully apps that people willing to pay for even if open. I do beleive in Jolla visions. But its hard as hell.

What happens after they release first device depends on how much they sell. If they not sell they'r risk capitalists who has invest money in the company will leave and left Jolla to die.

So my points is if people are willing to "join the boat" and you can risk some money without knowing exact specs etc... Just doit.

But I would NOT recommend people without income to preorder device not even from Apple or anyone else for that matter...

But again. Jolla is small company they can't give all info, because its to soon! If they did we can for sure expect Jolla to die cause some big company would buy the SoC from manufactors to make sure Jolla dies before we get device in our hands. Thats how the hard business works...

Hariainm

2013-05-30 22:10

Re: #JollaLoveDay - 20th May - device announcement

Quote:

Originally Posted by mikecomputing (Post 1348141)

But again. Jolla is small company they can't give all info, because its to soon!

So then why they put the announcement date this early? Why open the pre-ordering campaign when then can not reveal the info about the phone now, and maybe not next month, or after summer, who knows. Why? We, the maemo community have high hopes in this company, to be the real Nokia successor in the open mobile OS spectre, but let's be honest, if other company try to do the same for you, "hey, see my next phone and pre-order it now, but i'm not willing to tell you none of its specifications, not the release date, but please trust me, it will be awesome." What do you say Samsung? Hello HTC? What do you say, Sony? Screw you. You know you would think this way.

Jolla is not Apple.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mikecomputing (Post 1348141)

If they did we can for sure expect Jolla to die cause some big company would buy the SoC from manufactors to make sure Jolla dies before we get device in our hands. Thats how the hard business works...

Really? To much TV, mike. I'm not really sure the big boys even know what Jolla is...

rcolistete

2013-05-30 22:14

Re: #JollaLoveDay - 20th May - device announcement

Jolla OS running Android software :
https://twitter.com/JollaHQ/status/339785418197311489
Example at 4min37s :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vR2g45lPQVg

Morpog

2013-05-30 22:30

Re: #JollaLoveDay - 20th May - device announcement

Running quite good if you ask me.

soryuuha

2013-05-31 00:19

Re: #JollaLoveDay - 20th May - device announcement

anyone have any video/info if jollaOS have tethering hotspot, in WPA/WPA2 mode?

hopefully they do not go for WEP thethering..

youmeego

2013-05-31 01:33

Re: #JollaLoveDay - 20th May - device announcement

how about bluetooth tethering?

onethreealpha

2013-05-31 02:10

Re: #JollaLoveDay - 20th May - device announcement

Mer ships with Bluez, and GATT tools has been built as a part of this package, which by definition supports:
A2DP 1.2
AVRCP 1.5
DI 1.3
HDP 1.0
HID 1.0
PAN 1.0
SPP 1.1

GATT (LE) profiles:

PXP 1.0
HTP 1.0
HoG 1.0
TIP 1.0
CSCP 1.0

OBEX based profiles (by obexd):

FTP 1.1
OPP 1.1
PBAP 1.1
MAP 1.0

Provided by the oFono project:

HFP 1.6 (AG & HF)

of course actual functionality will be determined by hardware AND software :)

Rauha

2013-05-31 05:59

Re: #JollaLoveDay - 20th May - device announcement

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hariainm (Post 1348131)

I
And the use of the 100€ voucher, how does it work? When my phone finally arrives, do I have to pay 399-100=299€? Or pay the 399€ full price and the 100€ voucher is for spending in accesories, Jolla App Store and something like that?

You have to pay 299 once the phone is ready to ship.

Its pretty clearly stated on the pre-order page:

"We will deduct 100 € on the final purchase of your Jolla phone"

And

"If you participate in the pre-order campaign and purchase the device when it becomes available, you will pay no more than 399 € (including VAT), excluding shipping costs and possible local taxes and other handling fees. "

Dave999

2013-05-31 06:29

Re: #JollaLoveDay - 20th May - device announcement

Can someone send a twitt or a Facebook message and ask jolla when they are planing to release a proper spec like a real company? This is not how you do business...

ggabriel

2013-05-31 08:48

Re: #JollaLoveDay - 20th May - device announcement

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hariainm (Post 1348131)

I really don't expect a HWKB included for the 100€ pre-orders. I don't. But I don't like buying smoke, the hidden information. What is it? Why you can't tell us? To be honest i want SailfishOS, the SW, to be released more than the phone, the HW.

So, don't buy it then... you can do (or not do) whatever you want with your money.

As for why the mystery, I wouldn't know to be honest, but I can guess that maybe they don't want to give too much away? or maybe they don't know yet?

Marc clearly stated that the other halves was an idea for people to innovate suggesting that they weren't going to be working on that aside from coloured halves, and he also clearly stated that the interface has to be open, which it isn't yet, probably because they haven't got it yet, so whoever wants to make a hwkb out of it will have to wait a bit until the interface happens.

Having said all this, it must be good news to Jolla that these conversations happen, bad news would be people being indifferent and going and getting another device elsewhere...

Kangal

2013-06-10 13:56

Re: #JollaLoveDay - 20th May - device announcement

Quote:

Originally Posted by soryuuha (Post 1346920)

So you are asking for iPhone...it have multi-tasking fancy gesture too.

No.

Quote:

Originally Posted by qwazix (Post 1346907)

It looks a lot like android, despite the 1-button difference.
Sailfish has the pulley menu, much better than buttons, especially for large devices, it has back and it has a button, inside the app, you may use it instead of the gesture if you so like.

Pulley menu is good for some Apps, for many its not useful.
Such as Browser, Maps, Fruit Ninja... basically any App that has a large canvas to interact with. And this means many current, and possibly most of tomorrow's apps too.

Quote:

Originally Posted by qwazix (Post 1346907)

Which ones? All the gestures you described are done from inside the screen, no need for edge swipes, thus Android.

I'm sorry you have perceived incorrectly.

Quote:

Originally Posted by qwazix (Post 1346907)

I take it you've never used the N9? Because it's so natural, that I end up doing it on every other phone. Even chrome has the side swipe gesture, which I admit is difficult to perform on a Note, but that's becase the implementation is half-assed. I've never lost a side swipe on the N950 despite it having a smaller bezel than the note and flat screen.

I take it that you don't read well.
I've stated that I didn't like the N9's implementation because of the space restrictions. Making a device wider is very punishing for the experience. That and because I owned one months later only to return it shortly (couldn't replace my N900 or my NOTE).

Quote:

Originally Posted by qwazix (Post 1346907)

What you are asking is indeed a complete overhaul.

Maybe so, but its the superior design choice going simply by elegance ÷ utility approach.
Something that is the foundation of the OS, which can greatly increase its longevity (just like WebOS which refuses to get killed).

Quote:

Originally Posted by qwazix (Post 1346907)

Blackberry did exactly what you are asking for, only up/down swipes, but this is more unnatural than N9's edge swipes as you swipe up-then-left to drag thigs left/right which is confusing. I understand that they did this because only the upward swipe wasn't enough, and the downward swipe was used for the notifications.

Up & Down Swipes are MORE natural.
Side & Side Swipes are LESS natural.
This isn't even debatable, not to me anyway.

I do like how N9's transitions are seamless, but I prefer a very lean device (SHAVED BEZELS!!!1!!!) and reach anywhere along the top and bottom corners which have enough bezel space to accommodate an inward coming swipe. I might have OCD.

The BBX's approach is very complex and even less natural than the N9's.
Its choka-blok full of features... but it easily becomes overwhelming to even experienced users. Hate to say it, but Apple is beautifully simple.

Kangal

2013-06-10 14:06

Re: #JollaLoveDay - 20th May - device announcement

Here's a render of different phones/OS's with their different user interfaces.

The last one on the right is what I'm proposing, can you guess the rest?

http://img59.imageshack.us/img59/8759/gestures.png

qwazix

2013-06-10 14:59

Re: #JollaLoveDay - 20th May - device announcement

While I agree shaved bezels = elegance, I disagree that it also means utility. It is easy to argue that it's obvious when screens get bigger that you have to shave the bezel to gain screen real estate and still be able to use the phone with one hand, BUT: on really large phones like the note, reaching to the left side when holding with the right hand (or the other way around) causes your palm/lower part of thumb to activate a tap on the right hand of the screen. Now this could be solved by some dead zone around the phone which will still be screen but without touch, or by one of those detection techniques that never work...

There are more reasons why manipulating a bezelless 7mm phone is sub-optimal, like it's hard to pick up when screen is on and hard to give to someone in a safe/stable manner. (no space to put your thumb on the top side to create torque, so you have to hand it out like a tray)

jalyst

2013-06-11 06:21

Re: #JollaLoveDay - 20th May - device announcement

Some interesting UX choices... Even one that mimics Sailfish's "Covers", albeit slightly better perhaps?
http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2013/...e-ui-obsidian/

Kangal

2013-06-11 09:00

Re: #JollaLoveDay - 20th May - device announcement

Quote:

Originally Posted by qwazix (Post 1350906)

BUT: on really large phones like the note, reaching to the left side when holding with the right hand (or the other way around) causes your palm/lower part of thumb to activate a tap on the right hand of the screen. Now this could be solved by some dead zone around the phone which will still be screen but without touch, or by one of those detection techniques that never work...

There are more reasons why manipulating a bezelless 7mm phone is sub-optimal, like it's hard to pick up when screen is on and hard to give to someone in a safe/stable manner. (no space to put your thumb on the top side to create torque, so you have to hand it out like a tray)

I don't have that problem.
I haven't ever heard of that problem from fellow NOTE users. I think you might be thinking a wee-bit anxious about it.

I do see your point if the screen is truly bezel-less (no side bezels completely).
But today's phones have about 7mm of bezel on each side. Something like 2mm would prevent your problem, and make the phone more pocketable (less width) and it would fit more comfy in your hand or hands too.

Something drastic but not overkill. And that's just with 12mm savings from the sides, consider the iPhone 5 which has a ginormous upper and lower bezel... making the puny 4in screen fit in a device that's comparable to 4.5in phones.

RX-51

2013-06-13 10:49

Re: #JollaLoveDay - 20th May - device announcement

some news about Finnish carrier DNA confirming it will be the first to launch Jolla phones running Sailfish

Quote:

DNA will sell Jolla smartphones as the first operator in the world and as the only operator in Finland as soon as they enter the market. Jolla will be available in DNA Kauppa stores and DNA online, as well as at selected DNA retailers. Jolla unveiled its new smart phone in May.

http://www.engadget.com/2013/06/13/d...o-offer-jolla/

qwazix

2013-06-15 14:04

Re: #JollaLoveDay - 20th May - device announcement

Marc Dillon mentioned qwerty extensively in today's keynote, and said the Other Half is a good way to please both generation X who know and appreciate qwerty and generation Y who have "grown up with touchscreens".

No confirmation that one is coming though.

jalyst

2013-06-15 15:41

Re: #JollaLoveDay - 20th May - device announcement

Quote:

Originally Posted by qwazix (Post 1352204)

Which "keynote" are you referring to? Devaamo?

qwazix

2013-06-15 16:00

Re: #JollaLoveDay - 20th May - device announcement

yep .

mikecomputing

2013-06-15 16:13

Re: #JollaLoveDay - 20th May - device announcement

Quote:

Originally Posted by qwazix (Post 1352204)

I Don't get why they don't tell what type of connection other half will have. If they want ideas its time for them to clarify if is only bt+nfc, btonly, nfconly or phys connection like usb!

jalyst

2013-06-15 16:27

Re: #JollaLoveDay - 20th May - device announcement

Quote:

Originally Posted by mikecomputing (Post 1352234)

I Don't get why they don't tell what type of connection other half will have.
If they want ideas its time for them to clarify if is only bt+nfc, btonly, nfconly or phys connection like usb!

If the device is still due for Dec, then it certainly is getting quite late...
If it's going to be a substantial interface(s) & not some gimmick, then the dev community needs details ASAP.

biatch0

2013-06-16 06:05

Re: #JollaLoveDay - 20th May - device announcement

Quote:

Originally Posted by jalyst (Post 1352238)

If the device is still due for Dec, then it certainly is getting quite late...
If it's going to be a substantial interface(s) & not some gimmick, then the dev community needs details ASAP.

Actually, I think the correct version of this should be the ENTIRE community needs details ASAP. Too few details and even then most of it is just random press releases since the launch. Feels like they've really lost a lot of momentum by choosing this drip feed path.

mikecomputing

2013-06-16 11:45

Re: #JollaLoveDay - 20th May - device announcement

IRL Marketing of Jolla :P

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?f...type=1&theater

jalyst

2013-06-16 16:22

Re: #JollaLoveDay - 20th May - device announcement

^In Jolla's dreams :)

ggabriel

2013-06-16 18:40

Re: #JollaLoveDay - 20th May - device announcement

I won't quote everybody who commented on the other half interface, so to all of you - I honestly don't know how long does it take to manufacture something of this nature, but I will ask this: does it make sense to have the details of the interface without a device to test it with? Whoever is going to run that risk?
Suppose the details are out now: won't manufacturers and interested people wait until an actual device is out to test it properly? In this case: won't we have alternative other halves only _after_ the device is out and make it a couple of months afterwards? And if what I say is true: doesn't Jolla have time to release the details? why do they have to do that right now?

I'm not trying to be a fanboy or anything, just honestly questioning why the hype if it's unlikely that people will do anything hardware wise without a counterpart to test it with.

mikecomputing

2013-06-16 19:40

Re: #JollaLoveDay - 20th May - device announcement

Quote:

Originally Posted by ggabriel (Post 1352532)

I personally want to know it so I can prepare some apps for it lets say it has NFC then its good for what ideas I have. if it has USB even better.

Also if you work on X/Y company and want to support Jolla its a good idea to show what other half is about to make cool gadgets.

ggabriel

2013-06-17 08:30

Re: #JollaLoveDay - 20th May - device announcement

Quote:

Originally Posted by mikecomputing (Post 1352544)

I personally want to know it so I can prepare some apps for it lets say it has NFC then its good for what ideas I have. if it has USB even better.

So, if it's software that you want to do, do you need it right now or can you wait a bit longer?

Quote:

Originally Posted by mikecomputing (Post 1352544)

Also if you work on X/Y company and want to support Jolla its a good idea to show what other half is about to make cool gadgets.

But that's my point - would these companies even attempt to make a hardware prototype without an actual phone and just some specs on a piece of paper?

mikecomputing

2013-06-17 16:26

Re: #JollaLoveDay - 20th May - device announcement

Quote:

Originally Posted by ggabriel (Post 1352630)

So, if it's software that you want to do, do you need it right now or can you wait a bit longer?

But that's my point - would these companies even attempt to make a hardware prototype without an actual phone and just some specs on a piece of paper?

Now tell me why I should make an app if I don't know if they will support NFC/USB in the end :O

Do you think I am doing stuff just to throw it in trashbin or what?

Dave999

2013-06-17 16:35

Re: #JollaLoveDay - 20th May - device announcement

Quote:

Originally Posted by mikecomputing (Post 1352723)

Now tell me why I should make an app if I don't know if they will support NFC/USB in the end :O

Do you think I am doing stuff just to throw it in trashbin or what?

Same goes for the device. Why should I code for it when I don't know date, specifications and other interesting information.

mikecomputing

2013-06-17 16:48

Re: #JollaLoveDay - 20th May - device announcement

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chuck Norris (Post 1352727)

Same goes for the device. Why should I code for it when I don't know date, specifications and other interesting information.

It depend on WHAT app you create. I have already ported two where I dont need exact specs of HW.

What CPU it has is irrelevant as long you don't want to write code in assembler...

ggabriel

2013-06-17 18:05

Re: #JollaLoveDay - 20th May - device announcement

Quote:

Originally Posted by mikecomputing (Post 1352723)

Now tell me why I should make an app if I don't know if they will support NFC/USB in the end :O

I'd say don't make anything related to the other half until there is something available. I'm not questioning whether you should do something or not, I am questioning the _why_ do we need something _now_ if we know that there won't be any device until at least end of year.

I could speculate that Jolla is trying a thing or two with partners, but that's just that: speculation.

RX-51

2013-06-23 18:21

Re: #JollaLoveDay - 20th May - device announcement

About hardware Jolla will have to compete with - here are the cheap ones coming:

http://www.engadget.com/2013/06/23/g...arphone-leaks/

mikecomputing

2013-06-23 18:45

Re: #JollaLoveDay - 20th May - device announcement

Quote:

Originally Posted by ggabriel (Post 1352751)

As stated in another thread I don't care about CPU specs etc... but specs that is relevant for developers should be released as long as its not could hurt them by copycats etc...

Reason: It makes "more apps ready from start" and I don't see why this would hurt them in any way. I mean NFC/BT almost all devices has today so no copycats there.

mikecomputing

2013-06-23 18:49

Re: #JollaLoveDay - 20th May - device announcement

Quote:

Originally Posted by RX-51 (Post 1354217)

About hardware Jolla will have to compete with - here are the cheap ones coming:

http://www.engadget.com/2013/06/23/g...arphone-leaks/

http://www.mediatek.com/_en/01_produ...ro.php?sn=1081

and the one Jolla will use is below, because it says 8mpix camera ;)

http://www.mediatek.com/_en/01_produ...ro.php?sn=1074

edit: after looking at mediatek homepage I say it actually could be some of that family. Also the company seems serious and not like **** companys like amlogic wish I hope its NOT!

RX-51

2013-06-23 20:43

Re: #JollaLoveDay - 20th May - device announcement

Quote:

Originally Posted by mikecomputing (Post 1354230)

and the one Jolla will use is below, because it says 8mpix camera ;)

http://www.mediatek.com/_en/01_produ...ro.php?sn=1074

edit: after looking at mediatek homepage I say it actually could be some of that family. Also the company seems serious and not like **** companys like amlogic wish I hope its NOT!

quoted one "MediaTek’s proven 3G/HSPA modem" got no LTE?! not LTE/4G would be a big letdown and a no no to buy for me.

Eztran

2013-06-23 20:46

Re: #JollaLoveDay - 20th May - device announcement

Quote:

Originally Posted by RX-51 (Post 1354260)

quoted one "MediaTek’s proven 3G/HSPA modem" got no LTE?! not LTE/4G would be a big letdown and a no no to buy for me.

Just about every spec Jolla's released has had 4G or LTE on it. I'd be very surprised.

mikecomputing

2013-06-23 20:58

Re: #JollaLoveDay - 20th May - device announcement

Quote:

Originally Posted by RX-51 (Post 1354260)

quoted one "MediaTek’s proven 3G/HSPA modem" got no LTE?! not LTE/4G would be a big letdown and a no no to buy for me.

could be added externally but... Missed that one soo...

DeeGee

2013-06-24 06:43

Re: #JollaLoveDay - 20th May - device announcement

Yeah, plenty of SOC's to choose from. But I'm still wondering if TI's OMAP line would have "leg up" on the competition due to better Linux support. But that would require a separate modem chip.
Technically you could call OMAP 5430 a "dual core" if you don't count the lower power helper cores.
Unless they plan to get libhybris/wayland working on the first device.

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