maemo.org - Talk
Page 24 of 72 « First 142223 24 252634 Last »
Show 40 post(s) from this thread on one page

maemo.org - Talk (https://talk.maemo.org/index.php)
-   Jolla1 & TOH (https://talk.maemo.org/forumdisplay.php?f=56)
-   -   #JollaLoveDay - 20th May - device announcement (https://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=90142)

thedead1440 2013-09-16 16:31
Re: #JollaLoveDay - 20th May - device announcement
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by youmeego (Post 1374588)
can i know what the disadvantages of android hardware compatibility are?
  • People not willing to buy a Jolla device due to factors ranging from the OS working on their own Android device which may most probably have better tech specs
  • If people didn't get a fully functional port, there is a chance they don't even want to try a Jolla
  • If Sailfish OS contains proprietary contents like some core apps etc, it isn't clear how these would be ported over... Maybe Nemo apps are ported over instead hence a consistent experience is not derived by the user

Frankly, whatever Jolla have done till date have both its advantages+disadvantages but I for one am certainly rooting for them. I not only want a Jolla but would want to run Sailfish OS on the Android devices I own :D

Dave999 2013-09-16 16:37
Re: #JollaLoveDay - 20th May - device announcement
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by youmeego (Post 1374588)
can i know what the disadvantages of android hardware compatibility are?
its not secure.

youmeego 2013-09-16 16:41
Re: #JollaLoveDay - 20th May - device announcement
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by thedead1440 (Post 1374592)
  • People not willing to buy a Jolla device due to factors ranging from the OS working on their own Android device which may most probably have better tech specs
  • If people didn't get a fully functional port, there is a chance they don't even want to try a Jolla
  • If Sailfish OS contains proprietary contents like some core apps etc, it isn't clear how these would be ported over... Maybe Nemo apps are ported over instead hence a consistent experience is not derived by the user

Frankly, whatever Jolla have done till date have both its advantages+disadvantages but I for one am certainly rooting for them. I not only want a Jolla but would want to run Sailfish OS on the Android devices I own :D
oh thanks, and what are the advantages of having native sailfish hardware driver?

and does that mean we can install android on jolla phone as well?

gerbick 2013-09-16 16:50
Re: #JollaLoveDay - 20th May - device announcement
 
The arguments against having an Android compatibility layer is really coming from either purists or from folks that don't see the reason for the inclusion and announcement.

I'm not exactly a fan of it, but having it eases the transition from folks that might be on the fence of updating their Android phone and thus might come to Jolla if some of their favorite apps - read: Instagram, Pinterest, Vine, Waze and the like - are able to run there too. Face it, Jolla out of the door will have very little application support from things that a lot of consumers take for granted on other platforms.

To me, the insecurity reasons (no mobile OS is fully secure out of the box) to the "I don't want Android on my Jolla phone" (take the hint: don't use it then) types are really just annoying bits of noise that you should avoid.

I cannot find too many negatives other than if it's implemented poorly, it'll reflect poorly on Jolla.

Here's to hoping it helps Jolla more than it hurts them. As a Jolla fan, I count the Android compatibility layer as a plus.

soryuuha 2013-09-16 16:51
Re: #JollaLoveDay - 20th May - device announcement
 
im worried about android malware now :/

Dave999 2013-09-16 17:08
Re: #JollaLoveDay - 20th May - device announcement
 
Whats the difference between a Torrent tracker and jolla OS?

Do jolla have to pay or get approval google? If not now, what if jolla is successful?

jalyst 2013-09-16 17:20
Re: #JollaLoveDay - 20th May - device announcement
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by gerbick (Post 1374602)
The arguments against having an Android compatibility layer is really coming from either purists or from folks that don't see the reason for the inclusion and announcement.
What folks have been talking about in the last few pages isn't the Alien Dalvik ACL but rather libhybris, the bionic <--> libgcc dvr/hw compatibility layer.
Some of Jolla's recent public statements have lead some folks to assume that Sailfish ports to Android devices are now just a "hop, skip, & a jump" away.
But I get your point about an ACL for Apps, & more-or-less agree with the main thrust of what was said...

Rogatti 2013-09-16 17:34
Re: #JollaLoveDay - 20th May - device announcement
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by praveenchand (Post 1374507)
Sailfishos achieves compatibility with Android ecosystem. Great news! Press release and pics @ http://jolla.com/press/
Google Translate:

http://translate.google.com/translat...l-1958589.html

Dave999 2013-09-16 17:52
Re: #JollaLoveDay - 20th May - device announcement
 
How is the comparability with google play application in jolla...If they can run that it would be truly awesome.

kingstu 2013-09-16 18:21
Re: #JollaLoveDay - 20th May - device announcement
 
Google won't let them install Google Play on their device. If someone finds an innovative way to get it working on a Jolla device it will probably be violating the terms and conditions of the Google Play store.

Dave999 2013-09-16 18:22
Re: #JollaLoveDay - 20th May - device announcement
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by kingstu (Post 1374621)
Google won't let them install Google Play on their device. If someone finds an innovative way to get it working on a Jolla device it will probably be violating the terms and conditions of the Google Play store.
So every developer need to approve installation for every application? So basically everything is illegal? if you buy an app, extract the .apk and move it to sailfish without approval.

Or does googles "inhouse" applications stronger legal/thechnical protection?

mikecomputing 2013-09-16 18:26
Re: #JollaLoveDay - 20th May - device announcement
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jedibeeftrix (Post 1374540)
"Vendors interested to utilize Sailfish OS are now able to develop phones and tablets based on many different chipset and hardware configurations."

Presumably this is most interesting if the chosen hardware they are compatible with is widesly used within industry.

Qualcomm?
No what they probadly mean is MER+libhybris who support MANY archs already. (not only ARM)

mikecomputing 2013-09-16 18:32
Re: #JollaLoveDay - 20th May - device announcement
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by shmerl (Post 1374562)
About the Android hardware issue. See the critical comment from the Lima driver developer: http://libv.livejournal.com/25325.html
His points are valid, if libhybris is going to become a permanent thing, instead of a temporary crutch to gain foothold.



I wish they'd publish such stuff in English in timely manner as well :)
MIR is GPL3 AFAIK. and as we know many companys dislike GPL3 for sometimes valid reasons.

and about libhybris fact stands we have to accept that companys will only deliver android drivers simply because Google feeds them. Same way as Microsoft doing on desktop where we lack decent GFX drivers for Linux.

I am suprised he thinks libhybris is dangerous at the same time he wonder why Intel don't want to support MiR??

Well here is what i think:

Its way more dangerous that now manufactors has to make sure driver works on X11, Wayland and MiR thats makes linux fragmentation that is and the most stupid one since Linux was introduced :( It may very well end that manufactors will only support the biggest dist. And as we know Canonical is the biggest linux dist means will only support MiR. Except Intel GFX.

And about his visions about Lima. Well I am glad there is people try make this happen. But still there is no damn way it can compete with closed drivers especially since lack of documentation from most of the GFX manufactors. Thats the biggest reason libhybris will stay for long, even if we like it or not.

mikecomputing 2013-09-16 18:58
Re: #JollaLoveDay - 20th May - device announcement
 
I am suprised no one has realised that Jolla may have rushed this announcement cause of the rumor that next samsung hiend will support Android and Tizen.

I hope thats not the case. But the android info of todays is to me nothing new. We have for long known that android will be supported.

Now lets hope they announce the specs this week as expected.

kingstu 2013-09-16 19:11
Re: #JollaLoveDay - 20th May - device announcement
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave999 (Post 1374622)
So every developer need to approve installation for every application? So basically everything is illegal? if you buy an app, extract the .apk and move it to sailfish without approval.

Or does googles "inhouse" applications stronger legal/thechnical protection?
Google Play is Google's App Store. It is not the only Android App Store. Google's services are not given away for free. That is why Jolla is using 3rd party App Stores instead of Google Play. In China Google Play doesn't have any paid apps and there are other local app stores which are more popular. Google's play store is the Biggest Android app store but it is not the only one. Also, you should be able to side-load apps if you want.

mikecomputing 2013-09-16 19:42
Re: #JollaLoveDay - 20th May - device announcement
 
http://blog.gsmarena.com/jolla-annou...roid-apps-too/

WTF do they show Android UI on a Jolla phone EPIC FAIL :mad:

another:

http://techcrunch.com/2013/09/16/jol...compatibility/

Mikkosssss 2013-09-16 19:52
Re: #JollaLoveDay - 20th May - device announcement
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikecomputing (Post 1374649)
WTF do they show Android UI on a Jolla phone EPIC FAIL :mad:
And they even spend time making that image. :confused: :mad:

Dave999 2013-09-16 19:52
Re: #JollaLoveDay - 20th May - device announcement
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikecomputing (Post 1374649)
http://blog.gsmarena.com/jolla-annou...roid-apps-too/


WTF do they show Android UI on a Jolla phone EPIC FAIL :mad:
dual boot?

mrsellout 2013-09-16 20:03
Re: #JollaLoveDay - 20th May - device announcement
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikkosssss (Post 1374654)
And they even spend time making that image. :confused: :mad:
The image was probably done by gsm arena, photoshop of https://jolla.com/media/images/Jolla_Aloe.jpg

(See shadow on top right corner of phone)

szopin 2013-09-16 20:29
Re: #JollaLoveDay - 20th May - device announcement
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikecomputing (Post 1374635)
I am suprised no one has realised that Jolla may have rushed this announcement cause of the rumor that next samsung hiend will support Android and Tizen.

I hope thats not the case. But the android info of todays is to me nothing new. We have for long known that android will be supported.

Now lets hope they announce the specs this week as expected.
Yeah, noticed 'new announcement' and was a bit surprised. They mentioned dalvik from the start, really thought this was achieved long ago. Then thought maybe they will announce full compatibility up to 4.2 or something (with BB poor performance in this area it would make sense to show a demo), but nope, just achievement. I really hope this is just a refreshment and beginning of a new mini-marketing campaign for the second batch (now we learn all specs, new deals with networks (China anyone? it was sooo quiet about this market except for a few HTC rumours), hw partnerships for the second half) for the coming few weeks. Didn't connect this with Samsung/Tizen, is Tizen 64-bit? Last heard their next high-end will run after 5s

mikecomputing 2013-09-16 20:51
Re: #JollaLoveDay - 20th May - device announcement
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by szopin (Post 1374664)
Yeah, noticed 'new announcement' and was a bit surprised. They mentioned dalvik from the start, really thought this was achieved long ago. Then thought maybe they will announce full compatibility up to 4.2 or something (with BB poor performance in this area it would make sense to show a demo), but nope, just achievement. I really hope this is just a refreshment and beginning of a new mini-marketing campaign for the second batch (now we learn all specs, new deals with networks (China anyone? it was sooo quiet about this market except for a few HTC rumours), hw partnerships for the second half) for the coming few weeks. Didn't connect this with Samsung/Tizen, is Tizen 64-bit? Last heard their next high-end will run after 5s
I think u should not compare it with BB. Jolla is using libhybris so may very well use dalvik from upstream if its open?


also found out that it seems Jolla will use libhybris for NFC drivers too...

https://github.com/libhybris/libhybr...p/libnfc_nxp.c

gerbick 2013-09-16 22:07
Re: #JollaLoveDay - 20th May - device announcement
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jalyst (Post 1374613)
What folks have been talking about in the last few pages isn't the Alien Dalvik ACL but rather libhybris, the bionic <--> libgcc dvr/hw compatibility layer.
Some of Jolla's recent public statements have lead some folks to assume that Sailfish ports to Android devices are now just a "hop, skip, & a jump" away.
But I get your point about an ACL for Apps, & more-or-less agree with the main thrust of what was said...
I was addressing the one person that asked what's the disadvantages to having Android as noted here and not addressing the Alien Dalvik nor libhybris stuff.

Actually I'd rather not address that stuff because ultimately it's frivolous information and at the end of the day, to know, learn and master that information really means nothing wherein it has no bearing on what the final majority of the consumers gravitate towards.

Simply stated... it's nerdy information that either works or doesn't work and knowing the internals doesn't add or negate those aforesaid facts (ie. it works or it doesn't work).

The above is not stated to sound harsh; it's just a fact that core fans as the average TMO user and developer needs to understand that they are not who marketing is typically directed towards. We'll buy anything that speaks our language. Other folks will buy anything that they've gotten used to or is easily utilized (read: convenient).

jalyst 2013-09-17 02:00
Re: #JollaLoveDay - 20th May - device announcement
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikecomputing (Post 1374635)
I am suprised no one has realised that Jolla may have rushed this announcement cause of the rumor that next samsung hiend will support Android and Tizen. I hope thats not the case. But the android info of todays is to me nothing new. We have for long known that android will be supported.
Yeah it was a pretty boring press release really, extremely light on detail & nothing we didn't know.
Where is this recent development about Tizen, can you point to an article?

Quote:
Now lets hope they announce the specs this week as expected.
This was the only interesting snippet of news, but it wasn't in the press release.
I hope they don't release the final specs 3mth+ before the ph begins shipping, that'd be an epic fail.
If they announce final specs this week, then the ph must be shipping by 30/11 max, ideally sooner.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gerbick (Post 1374684)
I was addressing the one person that asked what's the disadvantages to having Android as noted here and not addressing the Alien Dalvik nor libhybris stuff.
He was asking about libhybris, the "android hw compatibility layer".
But your over-arching point is noted...

Quote:
Originally Posted by mikecomputing (Post 1374670)
I think u should not compare it with BB. Jolla is using libhybris so may very well use dalvik from upstream if its open?
But they've been partnered with Myriad since the begging to do the Dalvik implementation, you reckon they may have ditched them?

youmeego 2013-09-17 05:21
Re: #JollaLoveDay - 20th May - device announcement
 
many people say android lags, and sailfish uses android driver, so sailfish phone will lag as well?

juiceme 2013-09-17 05:25
Re: #JollaLoveDay - 20th May - device announcement
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by gerbick (Post 1374684)
The above is not stated to sound harsh; it's just a fact that core fans as the average TMO user and developer needs to understand that they are not who marketing is typically directed towards. We'll buy anything that speaks our language. Other folks will buy anything that they've gotten used to or is easily utilized (read: convenient).
I agree fully for the first part of your statement; the people who need a device for some specific need will get it at whatever cost if ever a word leaks out that something suitable is available, even if it was manufactured in secrecy and only made available in select stores in Ulan Bator. :cool:

The second part however should actually read something like; "Other folks will buy anything that is advertised as Hip&Fashion loudly enough in trendy media", utility or convenience matters only slightly here :eek:

gerbick 2013-09-17 05:52
Re: #JollaLoveDay - 20th May - device announcement
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by juiceme (Post 1374722)
The second part however should actually read something like; "Other folks will buy anything that is advertised as Hip&Fashion loudly enough in trendy media", utility or convenience matters only slightly here :eek:
That's not actually far from the truth it seems. Ever notice how the mediocre products that have an extended media reach (ie. Microsoft Windows, Apple iOS, Nintendo <insert any of their consoles) have enjoyed success whereas better, far superior products (ie. Psion, Atari, Amiga, Maemo, MeeGo) have a serious problem gaining traction due to lack of trendy marketing?

Think about it. Each and every one of us here has been pissed off about how we picked "Product B" which was point for point better than "Product A" and yet we ended up on the losing end of that equation?

Maemo was my turning point. Loved my N810, had to settle for something else. Loved my N9, looking for something to replace it. Liking BB10, already hoping that Jolla will be better than it. And despite using/developing for Android and iOS, I'd rather live outside of those ecosystems and thusly I'm placing myself outside of the typical marketing and ultimately preparing myself to be pissed off yet again.

Marketing makes the easily persuaded flock to a product. "Ooh, shiny". Watch the average response to a well crafted (sometimes it doesn't even have to be well crafted) statement or commercial. I swear it's damn near mind control.

Shiny, shiny... pretty, pretty.

jalyst 2013-09-17 06:13
Re: #JollaLoveDay - 20th May - device announcement
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by youmeego (Post 1374721)
many people say android lags, and sailfish uses android driver, so sailfish phone will lag as well?
That's got nothing to do with the dvr layer...
And the root causes for it have been -mostly- mitigated nowadays.

soryuuha 2013-09-17 06:32
Re: #JollaLoveDay - 20th May - device announcement
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by youmeego (Post 1374721)
many people say android lags, and sailfish uses android driver, so sailfish phone will lag as well?
iianm, android UI language is the cause of the lag..

Dave999 2013-09-17 15:30
Re: #JollaLoveDay - 20th May - device announcement
 
no full spec announced today. Carry on...Max. Three days to go.

ZogG 2013-09-17 17:52
Re: #JollaLoveDay - 20th May - device announcement
 
When i had phone not supported by company(nokia N9), i wanted Android emulator as i wanted somehow to run applications . Today I don't want emulator, i want company to support it and push it on market, so there would be native apps. It's cheap move :(

mikecomputing 2013-09-17 18:14
Re: #JollaLoveDay - 20th May - device announcement
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jalyst (Post 1374708)
Yeah it was a pretty boring press release really, extremely light on detail & nothing we didn't know.
Where is this recent development about Tizen, can you point to an article?
got it from some twitter feed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jalyst (Post 1374708)
But they've been partnered with Myriad since the begging to do the Dalvik implementation, you reckon they may have ditched them?
Myriad Is that really something that was official? Question is if theyr solution is needed cause of libhybris may do the job?

As I understand it libhybris make it fully possible to run anything related to android because it "replaces" bionic libc with wrapper api between core linux glibc etc...

means there is no need emulation the way BB has done it. It also could mean games can run direcly that way. But I can be wrong..

jalyst 2013-09-17 18:39
Re: #JollaLoveDay - 20th May - device announcement
 
Yes it was official, they plugged it quite heavily until quite recently...
Pretty sure libhybris doesn't work that way, there still needs to be dalvik emulation.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZogG (Post 1374845)
When i had phone not supported by company(nokia N9), i wanted Android emulator as i wanted somehow to run applications . Today I don't want emulator, i want company to support it and push it on market, so there would be native apps. It's cheap move :(

It's a completely sensible move, they'd be stupid to support only Sailfish native apps.

shmerl 2013-09-17 19:54
Re: #JollaLoveDay - 20th May - device announcement
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikecomputing (Post 1374847)
As I understand it libhybris make it fully possible to run anything related to android because it "replaces" bionic libc with wrapper api between core linux glibc etc...
No. libhybris is not a replacement for bioinc to run anything from Android. It's another way around. It replaces some parts of bionic in the context of certain bionic based libraries (such as GPU userspace blobs), to enable running glibc based code while using those libraries.

I.e. it works like this (if I understood correctly):

Linux Application <-> Wayland <-> bionic based blob <-> libhybris <-> glibc

That's because in normal case it would be (well in the best case it won't be a blob at all, it would be a kernel driver, but that's a different story):

Linux Application <-> Wayland <-> glibc based blob <-> glibc.

It has nothing to do with running Android applications.

kingstu 2013-09-17 20:25
Re: #JollaLoveDay - 20th May - device announcement
 
Some information about Jolla and their Android compatibility is found here Forbes on Jolla Android Compatibility It seems like much of what we expected and perhaps a little special sauce added.

shmerl 2013-09-17 21:01
Re: #JollaLoveDay - 20th May - device announcement
 
Is this a pun?-)

Quote:
If Jolla can negate customers concerns of “will it run X?”, then Sailfish OS has a chance to establish itself.

Dave999 2013-09-17 21:28
Re: #JollaLoveDay - 20th May - device announcement
 
1. How well will android apps work?
2. How easy are they to instal, uninstall and upgrade?
3. How many will feel reason to use android apks?
4. How is jolla better than an android device?

jolla make a elephant of a cat. Too much focus on this android thing...but atleast some jolla press...

RX-51 2013-09-17 21:56
Re: #JollaLoveDay - 20th May - device announcement
 
Shameless cross-link to TMO general - a contender for Jolla?

Quasar IV - The World's First Self-Authenticated Cipherphone Designed To Protect Your Digital Identity

qwazix 2013-09-17 21:59
Re: #JollaLoveDay - 20th May - device announcement
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by john mcaleely
another way of looking at hybris is to regard it as a way to use bionic based binaries in a glibc based os.

from http://mcaleely.com/jh/tot/2013/09/0...ybris-example/

shmerl 2013-09-17 22:12
Re: #JollaLoveDay - 20th May - device announcement
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by qwazix (Post 1374894)
Page not available.

bigfatdeal 2013-09-18 00:37
Re: #JollaLoveDay - 20th May - device announcement
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by shmerl (Post 1374896)
Page not available.
http://mcaleely.com/jh/ToT/2013/09/0...ybris-example/

There


All times are GMT. The time now is 04:21.
Page 24 of 72 « First 142223 24 252634 Last »
Show 40 post(s) from this thread on one page

vBulletin® Version 3.8.8