maemo.org - Talk - #JollaLoveDay - 20th May

It might well be that some things don't work as they should on these devices and that would put people off as well as create bad publicity on the net.

That might very well be it - for example, the GPS does not work at all with Nemo on N9 and N950, due to a missing driver. According to the Nemo developers, this is unlikely to be ever fixed (IIRC what they said, the driver should have been opensourced originally, but this was killed by Elopocalipse).

Also I think the drivers/hardware adaptation on N9 and N950 is licensed from Nokia under a non-commercial terms. This might also complicate things a but.

Other possibilities:

they don't want to alienate sales of their own device
fear of some company slapping together a Sailfish phone before Jolla (IMHO unlikely)
fear of indirect support costs (even if you tell people they are on your own, this does not mean they won't still spam you with questions per Email or on Twitter)

Still, it is quite unfortunate, due to all the wasted potential - both for Sailfish application development and due to giving a new life the N9 device family.

rcolistete

2013-05-20 22:24

Re: #JollaLoveDay - 20th May - device announcement

Quote:

Originally Posted by igguk1 (Post 1345408)

about the true openness of Sailfish Os because as I see it now Android is more open than this.

So can you contribute to the Android source code and have your package/software available as Android standart/default OS software, even if not working at Google ? ;)

With Mer/Nemo, which are the base of Sailfish OS, you can. They are free, open, being developed with/by the community, with meritocracy. You can be part of the community, collaborate and have your piece of code/software to become part of Mer/Nemo/Sailfish OS. :cool:

kingstu

2013-05-20 22:32

Re: #JollaLoveDay - 20th May - device announcement

For reasons why they don't specify which processor they are using or the type of screen (amoled or lcd) is highlighted in an interview with pocketnow.

PocketNow Interview with Mark Dillon

It appears they are not certain as to component availability but they have sailfish working on different hardware already.

marxian

2013-05-21 00:07

Re: #JollaLoveDay - 20th May - device announcement

http://img560.imageshack.us/img560/931/otherhalfl.jpg

szopin

2013-05-21 00:18

Re: #JollaLoveDay - 20th May - device announcement

From business perspective they are genius (not original, just genius): no problems with yellow/cyan missing from most stores, no overproduction if all predictions fail (you're losing like 2-5$ a piece instead of 400 per each pink unibody phone produced). Original? Maybe. Only functional cover/back we've seen so far (might've missed something) was charging ones from Nokia, which serve one purpose. They mentioned artists having their own covers with albums/tracks/links. So it seems NFC+SD card type of storage (probably readonly), if it is read-write it is innovative. Lenses (fish-eye) are definitely an option. How much hardware can be introduced in them remains to be seen (if it's only NFC, probably not so much, unless the cover has it's own battery/charging, then imagination can run wild, but who would charge phone AND cover???). They expect community to come up with ideas, please let us know of the specifications of the phone - cover connection, then we can think of something. Still, dismissing it is a bit rushed without more info

Win7Mac

2013-05-21 00:21

Re: #JollaLoveDay - 20th May - device announcement

What's bad about that concept at all? - Just think of the possibilities.
If something like this was introduced to next iphone, everybody'd go crazy about it. Not only because of battery or HWKB... :p

m4r0v3r

2013-05-21 00:23

Re: #JollaLoveDay - 20th May - device announcement

Am not preordering since uni + student = broke, but am saving up for that ****, why are people hating on the body, well sexy. I just hope a few months later the hardware isn't outdated. Remember the N9

handaxe

2013-05-21 00:53

Re: #JollaLoveDay - 20th May - device announcement

Surely, in this community function trumps looks? What's the beef with bezel this and bezel that? HW keyboard? Now THATS's a debate.....

rcolistete

2013-05-21 00:57

Re: #JollaLoveDay - 20th May - device announcement

Please, read the Pocket Now interview :

Quote:

For example, if you’re going to a club you might want to snap on a back that has a big flash and maybe a big camera button or something. You might also want additional battery capacity, and you may also use a cover with at thin battery to bring that functionality. The sky is the limit and we’re open for collaboration and ideas here, and these interfaces and features will be open to third parties to allow them to create other apps and features for Jolla.

So this "Other Half" cover is not a dummy one with NFC card, but has/can have power contacts and other connections.

The community is giving many ideas via Twitter, like cover with solar cell, etc.

MartinK

2013-05-21 01:08

Re: #JollaLoveDay - 20th May - device announcement

Quote:

Originally Posted by rcolistete (Post 1345467)

Please, read the Pocket Now interview :

So this "Other Half" cover is not a dummy one with NFC card, but has/can have power contacts and other connections.

The community is giving many ideas via Twitter, like cover with solar cell, etc.

Interesting ! VERY INTERESTING ! :)

marxian

2013-05-21 01:10

Re: #JollaLoveDay - 20th May - device announcement

Check out my 'other-half'. It goes into production later this year. Price is 1000 euros, and I'm accepting pre-orders for 200 euros. No free t-shirts. :p

http://img812.imageshack.us/img812/6378/jollahwkb.jpg

Viqsi

2013-05-21 01:12

Re: #JollaLoveDay - 20th May - device announcement

Quote:

Originally Posted by [Knuckles] (Post 1345344)

Look at Apple: the iphone 3GS, came out a few months before the N900 and is still _supported_. It still gets iOS updates. It's just incredible! And why does Apple does this? Ecosystem. Instead of having a new platform every release and burning all the bridges, you invite all your older friends and your userbase always grows, instead of you always starting from scratch.

Speaking as one who's surrounded by family members and friends with iPhone 3GSes, calling it "still supported" is an extraordinarily dubious position to take. It's "supported" in the sense that it's getting updates that slow it down to a crawl and make it a frustrating hassle to use - to the point that calls sometimes go unanswered because the UI can't respond in time to realize that yes, you do want to take this call (after 30 seconds of trying!). How very "useful".

That's a level of "support" that I could - and do - happily do without. Sadly, I can't drag the rest of the family with me quite yet.

Viqsi

2013-05-21 01:16

Re: #JollaLoveDay - 20th May - device announcement

Quote:

Originally Posted by shmerl (Post 1345363)

It looks annoyingly big in comparison. I start to worry.

Reminds me of iPhone 4 versus iPhone 5, personally. The proportions are pretty similar.

Rogatti

2013-05-21 01:54

Re: #JollaLoveDay - 20th May - device announcement

1 Attachment(s)

speaking desing ...

as will be the Lumia 938 ... looks like a juice box..and dual-core

bugzy

2013-05-21 02:04

Re: #JollaLoveDay - 20th May - device announcement

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave999 (Post 1345034)

Where is the slide out keyboard?

Apparently, that can be added through a custom back cover [1]. I am interested in the back cover story since all I can think about other than a keyboard back cover is an e-ink touch display back cover.

[1]See http://pocketnow.com/2013/05/20/joll...ew-marc-dillon

soryuuha

2013-05-21 02:35

Re: #JollaLoveDay - 20th May - device announcement

Quote:

P: I’m sure you’re aware that one of the biggest other-half possibilities we’ve heard, on Twitter and in comments, is one that supports a physical QWERTY keyboard. Is that a possibility?

MD: I have a big smile on my face! The sky is the limit, and the imagination is the limit for what can be done with the other-half.

this is what i imagined, an in-box/accesssories detachable HWKB which to solve the interest between dummies (full touch screen wannabes) and serious-ee (HWKB user). I am glad Jolla give a solid way for this appraoch to be possible.

with "the other half" , I can imagine nfc hwkb to be detached at the phone's back. Look at the camera module position, it is really possible for it to make space for hwkb accesories. hopefully they will come with stock detachable HWKB for reference.

Viqsi

2013-05-21 02:47

Re: #JollaLoveDay - 20th May - device announcement

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lumiaman (Post 1345489)

Jolla, the same people that couldn't add 1 and 1 together when they barely glued N9. The same people that made your SMS threads mix recipients. The same people that produced the worst email client in the history of smartphones. Jolla, the group that can't professionally present their product. Jolla, the unwashed, unkempt, smelly programmer that lack the discipline to code it right and fluent. And you all want too give them money? Hahahahhaha banana ....

Thanks for sharing.

aironeous

2013-05-21 03:13

Re: #JollaLoveDay - 20th May - device announcement

Though I dislike the large bezel it does leave room for game controls if we can get a other half that attaches game controls.

Kind of like this nintendo concept phone
http://www.concept-phones.com/gaming...ing-wii-video/
but smaller with the controllers on the bezel.

So possibilities are for the other half
1) HW KB
2) Extra Battery
3) E Ink display showing selectable image using super low power
4) Artistic covers that interact with ambiance and add consumable or secret special content using NFC and its own memory including holographic images that contain tags or glow in the dark cases
5) Game controllers
6) Solar charger with extra battery maybe from goal zero
7) Liquidmetal super case that keeps bouncing when you drop it
8) Case with kickstand
9) Tricorder
10) Stun Gun
11) Swiss army case includes many pull out tools like vibrating toothbrush and pleasure devices
12) Wireless charging and battery
13) Pico projector
14) track pad or pull out blue tooth dual mouse/headset
15) Case with dock connections
16) Something giving it more power to act as a desktop with dock
17) Alternative charging like kinetic charger or fuel cell
18) Sticky case or mini bean bag for in car on your dash so it wont move
19) Police radar detector lol
20) Self destruct device in case of theft

shmerl

2013-05-21 03:20

Re: #JollaLoveDay - 20th May - device announcement

1 Attachment(s)

This must be the front camera? I surely hope it has one.

soryuuha

2013-05-21 03:27

Re: #JollaLoveDay - 20th May - device announcement

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lumiaman (Post 1345489)

The same people that produced the worst email client in the history of smartphones.

lameman,
if for nokia, worst email client should be Symbian Email client...

my N9 email client outperform android's and iphone's email client in fully rretrieving my corporate email (html based). im pretty sure iN9's email client ain't the worst

soryuuha

2013-05-21 03:28

Re: #JollaLoveDay - 20th May - device announcement

Quote:

Originally Posted by shmerl (Post 1345497)

This must be the front camera? I surely hope it has one.

iian,, yes..it is front camera. marc said it on engadget hands-on

rcolistete

2013-05-21 06:12

Re: #JollaLoveDay - 20th May - device announcement

My blog article about Jolla smartphone, translation from portuguese-br to english using Google Translate.

I was negatively surprised to see all brazilian and most international articles ignoring the full concept of "Other Half" from Jolla. It is a true innovation.

qwazix

2013-05-21 06:24

Re: #JollaLoveDay - 20th May - device announcement

tablet otherhalf a'la phonepad anyone?

(oh, and I forgot something, hildon desktop for mer is on meego obs)

nokiabot

2013-05-21 06:35

Re: #JollaLoveDay - 20th May - device announcement

Quote:

Originally Posted by MartinK (Post 1345430)

they don't want to alienate sales of their own device
fear of some company slapping together a Sailfish phone before Jolla (IMHO unlikely)
fear of indirect support costs (even if you tell people they are on your own, this does not mean they won't still spam you with questions per Email or on Twitter)

Still, it is quite unfortunate, due to all the wasted potential - both for Sailfish application development and due to giving a new life the N9 device family.

this is really bugging /annoying sence

hope things change by time or people change their minds:)

jalyst

2013-05-21 06:37

Re: #JollaLoveDay - 20th May - device announcement

Quote:

Originally Posted by shmerl (Post 1345497)

This must be the front camera? I surely hope it has one.

It was confirmed in one of the Engadget articles, think it was a video tour they did with Marc.
This is a basic feature, I doubt they'd leave it out, but who knows in the end...

Quote:

Originally Posted by soryuuha (Post 1345499)

lameman,
if for nokia, worst email client should be

Don't feed, just report, the higher the report ratio, the greater the likelihood his excrement will be washed away.

Quote:

Originally Posted by nokiabot (Post 1345532)

this is really bugging /annoying sence
hope things change by time or people change their minds:)

While that's still fresh in your mind, here's some more background_info/detail to help things sink in further:
http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php...85#post1345385
http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php...11#post1345411

qole	2013-05-21 06:53

Re: #JollaLoveDay - 20th May - device announcement

It is really clear to me that they can't talk about display resolution etc. because they've yet to nail down a supplier for the display, and I suspect they don't want to reveal anything that might give suppliers a chance to raise the price on the component ("you promised this resolution," the supplier says, "And if you want to keep your promise, you'll have to buy this component, which is now 50% more expensive!")

The thing that puzzles me is how coy they're being about a keyboard option for the device.

Quote:

Does this mean that they've got a keyboard other half, but they want to keep that as a surprise? Or does it mean that they don't have one, they're not going to make one, and they're expecting the community to make one?

Kangal

2013-05-21 06:59

Re: #JollaLoveDay - 20th May - device announcement

Quote:

Originally Posted by mikecomputing (Post 1345418)

No its not, because most of the stuff is mer/nemo so stop cry and go out on github and contribute instead of whine about how not open sailfish is! If you get any trouble with some linrary who is not open THEN you and others can come back cry about not openess platform.

But right now I am seriously sick and tired of people who whines and probadly not even has contributed anything in merproject and only sitting on TMO cry about no HWKBD or bllablabla.

FOr once more REALIZE FACTS! Jolla is a small company stop compare them with ridicilous big companys as Google, Apple or Nokia. They must hold back some info, they most hold back some of the sourcecode and they depend on people who contribute.

If you don't like thjis well go for something else instead of sitting here and cry.

Again, this post is NOT only pointing on igguk there are several more whines on TMO who really never seems to get it!

You're the one who doesn't get it (this isn't my opinion, its the fact :P)

Jolla could've easily made a page and made a poll for everyone to vote on their favourite attributes such as:
- Favourite screen ratio (16:9 would've won)
- Favourite screen size (large would've probably won)
- Favourite bezel size (small would've probably won)
- Sides of the screen swiping, a la N9 (favoured or not?)
- Top of the screen swiping, a la Android (favoured or not?)
- Bottom of the screen swiping (favoured or not?)

...then get their designers to make the product.
Then have some random/respected Chinese OEM/factory(s) build the hardware (eg/ TCL, Ainol, Meizu etc etc). Basically, they do the hardware to your specifications.
You do the software. A bit more costly, but a smoother operation.

< could even be a KickStarter campaing, remember the buggy OUYa? >

After having some stock (10,000 units?) make a revealing and start pre-ordering.
Then begin shipping to happy customers, as best as you can.

juiceme

2013-05-21 07:36

Re: #JollaLoveDay - 20th May - device announcement

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kangal (Post 1345539)

You're the one who doesn't get it (this isn't my opinion, its the fact :P)

Jolla could've easily made a page and made a poll for everyone to vote on their favourite attributes such as:

I kind of disagreee here... Whats a camel; a horse designed by committee.
You cannot get a clear design vision out of polling randoim dudes off the net, sorry.
Might sound a bit elitist but it's a fact of life :D

igguk1

2013-05-21 08:44

Re: #JollaLoveDay - 20th May - device announcement

Quote:

Originally Posted by qwazix (Post 1345421)

Big difference with Nokia: You can use Mer and Nemo now, on various other devices. In fact you can use them on *any* device as long as it has linux drivers (too bad this is only true for x86 and pretty much nothing else) Maemo was never able to run on anything else than NIT's, not because of lack of drivers, but because of dependency spaghetti (deliberate or not)

They have cleanly seperated their code from the community code, no tangled binary dependencies, no stupid maemo-generic-pr metapackage. They also contribute to open projects as they work, no big code-drops, android/Tizen style. If that is not openness what is it? Ok some GUI apps may be closed, so what? We can make replacements, it's not like we'll need to reverse-engineer bme.

The system is so compliant to standards that people have managed to run the actual sailfish os from the x86 emulator image on compatible tablets. Try that with maemo.

PS. N959 is a Nokia/Boeing/Porsche hybrid?

I knew I was going to get some beating when I wrote about the true openness Sailfish and more so here.

Look in all I am very happy this is happening now and I am looking forward for them to succeed, as I see it this can only benefit people who is favoring the open-source movement. I like also how they are promoting Qt as for development toolkit :)
I am just a bit worried as to why the Jolla team does not openly discuss what are their future plans for open-sourcing the closed parts… the UX and the drivers, I understand they might not be able to do so now because being a small company on a Shark territory they might lose some competitive advantage, but still they could openly discuss if they plan to do so at some point in the future.
Would everybody here for instance be happy knowing that the closed parts will remain like so forever? I know my answer.

When I said Android is more open than Sailfish now is because it is, heck even somebody skilled enough could cook their own ROM, all is available there and for instance Ubuntu people are taking advantage of it, and yes you can have a terminal on it if you wish don’t forget it’s based still on a linux core :) , please don’t tell me about Google evil company I know about it don’t like it either… but is not the matter we are discussing here.

That’s all that I wanted to say and I know that while I will get again a beating here, I am voicing also some concerns that maybe a small part of this forums has.
As I don’t want to start a war here about this, this will be my last comment on it I will just continue to read the forums and Jolla news and probably will get the phone when released.

I said in the post before that the hardware does not appeal to me (that was bound to happen with the resources they have) but I forgot to add that I like very much what I see about the Os's and that if well executed which is a very big If "the Other half" idea may be the disrupting thing Elop was chasing years ago... :D

jalyst

2013-05-21 08:56

Re: #JollaLoveDay - 20th May - device announcement

Quote:

Originally Posted by igguk1 (Post 1345562)

<SNIP>

They've outlined all of that, were just waiting on them validating it, they explained many mths ago that all of the UX layer will be open, only core/native apps will be closed.
As for openness at the lowest lvl(s) (the drivers etc), how do you propose that would/could work?
What's more important is all the glue in between, & so far they've indicated that'll be open, we're just waiting for all the detail.
Much of it's already very public thanks to progress with MeR/Nemo, but it just needs to be put into nice & shiny Sailfish charts/graphics, & the missing bits added.

zlatokosi

2013-05-21 09:07

Re: #JollaLoveDay - 20th May - device announcement

Quote:

Originally Posted by marxian (Post 1345470)

Is the tape included? That would be a deal breaker for me. :-)

nokiabot

2013-05-21 09:26

Re: #JollaLoveDay - 20th May - device announcement

Quote:

Originally Posted by jalyst (Post 1345534)

It was confirmed in one of the Engadget articles, think it was a video tour they did with Marc.
This is a basic feature, I doubt they'd leave it out, but who knows in the end...

Don't feed, just report, the higher the report ratio, the greater the likelihood his excrement will be washed away.

While that's still fresh in your mind, here's some more background_info/detail to help things sink in further:
http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php...85#post1345385
http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php...11#post1345411

quite intresting xyz review i read earlier:)

it wasent about that i mean general people who fear of a underdevloped device or else the people who think it to be something ubiqutous come ranting with bla bla bla

isint that enough for now i.e what jolla showed us?? I dont know what ubiquous things people were thinking of??
Its more than enough progress for a startup multinational company . And they also need the buzz going afterall:)

juiceme

2013-05-21 09:29

Re: #JollaLoveDay - 20th May - device announcement

Quote:

Originally Posted by jalyst (Post 1345568)

As for openness at the lowest lvl(s) (the drivers etc), how do you propose that would/could work?

Actually that's the easiest part to be implemented as totally open source, and I would really like to see all drivers opened.

Why do you think HW drivers are so difficult to open? The chip/module vendors should have nothing against that, since the use of the drivers implies the use of the respective HW blocks, which implies higher sales for the said HW blocks.

Kangal

2013-05-21 09:37

Re: #JollaLoveDay - 20th May - device announcement

Quote:

Originally Posted by juiceme (Post 1345547)

Why not?

It would be "unlike" anything on the market.
I have a feeling most "geeks" would've chosen a +5in device with super-shaved bezels. A slab form-factor with an attachable hwkbd. Decent specs, decent ux, decent price.

nokiabot

2013-05-21 09:47

Re: #JollaLoveDay - 20th May - device announcement

Quote:

Originally Posted by juiceme (Post 1345576)

i think juiceme wants a cd shipped in:D

btw its a trival thing for devlopent in the afterlife :)

jalyst

2013-05-21 09:52

Re: #JollaLoveDay - 20th May - device announcement

Quote:

Originally Posted by juiceme (Post 1345576)

I know in theory it's totally do-able, but in practicality that's generally not been the case, as the industry has shown.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kangal (Post 1345581)

Why not? It would be "unlike" anything on the market.
I have a feeling most "geeks" would've chosen a +5in device with super-shaved bezels. A slab form-factor with an attachable hwkbd. Decent specs, decent ux, decent price.

>5" & a attachable/modular keyb? No thanks.

misterc

2013-05-21 10:25

Re: #JollaLoveDay - 20th May - device announcement

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kangal (Post 1345581)

right now they don't need geeks so much
sales is made up of two things

-1- unit price
-2- number of units sold

for geeks

-1- doesn't really matter, does it; they are fan, they'll pay pretty much any price to get one
-2- history doesn't repeat itself, it stutters... seem Maemo :(

for commercial success

-1- can be balanced, but oddly (see the display crap on iPotato devices) the real technical performances don't matter that much; what matters is the "shine", impress your buddies (who don't know any better ¦-)))))
-2- obviously, a higher price (without the shiny stuff) means lower sales
- N9 had
  - swype
  - an amazing unibody
  - is/was a NOKIA (stunning camera, but after elopocalypse, possibly more trouble then help... :mad:)
  - would have sold a lot more w/out elopocalypse...
- iPotato devices have shiny stuff that doesn't work, but nobody cares... it sells like mad b/c the buyers are flagrant ignorants (technologically speaking) and gobble up marketing poep like warm doughnuts...

right now they need a "shiny" device that SELLS
hopefully we'll get a hardware keyboard.

in fact, i'm sure we'll get one, just hope it'll be one designed by Jolla & carefully integrated
& i don't care so much about weight or size
as long as it stays connected as long as it is needed (not as long as some idiotic power management driver thinks it should be :mad:)
with a built in battery that may also backup the devices battery when not in use
the sky is the limit, indeed :cool: :D :rolleyes:

Zero Six

2013-05-21 10:26

Re: #JollaLoveDay - 20th May - device announcement

I think I'll wait for the hardware keyboard version :D

Dave999

2013-05-21 10:36

Re: #JollaLoveDay - 20th May - device announcement

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zero Six (Post 1345595)

I think I'll wait for the hardware keyboard version :D

I would love to see the next jolla device with keyboard. I'm not to fund of the idea of attachable keyboard.

Hope some 3pty android device manufacturer joins the boat and launching a slick keyboard device.

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