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-   Neo900 (https://talk.maemo.org/forumdisplay.php?f=57)
-   -   Neo900 - finally a successor of N900 (https://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=91142)

joerg_rw 2014-11-20 00:54
Re: Neo900 - finally a successor of N900
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wikiwide (Post 1447843)
...
Going to double my donation, soon (within this week).
...check out http://neo900.org/ : "starting to source risk parts for board itself, like 1GB RAM and RGB LEDs for kbd backlight." As mentioned on IRC, 'The funds basically don't allow securing of "expensive" stuff like the PoP RAM'...
Thanks a lot to wikiwide for your support by donating and by helping all the time with e.g. sourcing the components. Much appreciated.
Here's the RAM critter we are about to secure: http://neo900.org/stuff/joerg/N9_1GB...9_23-03-52.jpg

cheers
/j

joerg_rw 2014-11-21 19:03
Re: Neo900 - finally a successor of N900
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by joerg_rw (Post 1448267)
Here's the RAM critter we are about to secure: http://neo900.org/stuff/joerg/N9_1GB...9_23-03-52.jpg
And it seems we actually might have found a source for a sufficient quantity of those. So we now run into the problem of securing risk parts early, without really having the funds in our kitty for such expense. I like to pre-announce a possible start of a "buy your RAM!" campaign to raise the needed funds to secure those components. It will have to be a fast campaign since our time window for ordering is very short, and we never again might find similar source.

stay tuned!
/j

sulu 2014-11-21 20:25
Re: Neo900 - finally a successor of N900
 
How many units at what price (roughly) are you talking about?

btw:
Are there any synergy effects developing between Neo900 and Pyra (apart from Nikolaus being involved in both)?
I mean, Michael is basically handing over the mic to Sebastian at oshw and both seem to be quite vocal people.
So I'd imagine them having a beer and a nice talk together with Nikolaus.

nieldk 2014-11-21 20:41
Re: Neo900 - finally a successor of N900
 
Seems like too many critical parts, like the RAM, that is quite too risky for me to ensure a proper device to invest in. Tells new that this will die by default in 2-3 years easily, when parts starts to malfunction, and new parts are unavailable even for service, yet to say, new devices.

pichlo 2014-11-21 21:12
Re: Neo900 - finally a successor of N900
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by joerg_rw (Post 1448666)
I like to pre-announce a possible start of a "buy your RAM!" campaign to raise the needed funds to secure those components.
But everybody has already bought their RAM, by contributing at least €100. Some of us much more than that. So I have to second sulu's question,

Quote:
Originally Posted by sulu (Post 1448668)
How many units at what price (roughly) are you talking about?

joerg_rw 2014-11-22 00:14
Re: Neo900 - finally a successor of N900
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by pichlo (Post 1448670)
But everybody has already bought their RAM, by contributing at least €100. Some of us much more than that.
Of course we will count all the already done donations exceeding 100 as participating in this campaign with the "excess".

The 100€ are for R&D, not for securing/sourcing components for a final product. Those components sum up to much more than the 100€ anyway, see http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php...09#post1442609. The modem alone costs in that range, luckily the modem is not one of the risk parts. The 1024MB RAM (maybe 10..15EUR/chip, not 25 like quoted in above linked post) is, though. The 512MB RAM is easily available and probably will stay to be for a few more years. RGB-LEDs for kbd backlight are somewhat troublesome to source, but we can easily go for monochromatic/white LEDs any time. Please don't turn our very-open-communication policy into an argument against the project. Every hw development needs to deal with such issues of component availability and securing, and virtually not a single product out there will promise that spare parts are available on the free market 5 or 10 years into the future. Just usually you don't get to know of it. Also note that those "risk" parts often are for feature boosts like 1GB RAM or RGB backlight which were not on the list of guaranteed features of the original device.

The original idea has been to develop and build the prototypes, test them so you know what you get when you order. Then open up the regular order page, collect the payment and source the components and build the devices, which will take around 8 weeks after payments been collected. There's been no early sourcing of huge amounts of relatively expensive risk parts in that equation, but we found parts availability to be a more troublesome issue than originally expected, for some of the parts.
About repair: we will keep sufficient parts and even completely built boards for repairs and replacements. And in 3 years we don't expect any parts to start malfunctioning since we select parts to work for much longer than 3 years.

cheers
jOERG

peterleinchen 2014-11-22 08:54
Re: Neo900 - finally a successor of N900
 
Agreed.
But I think it will be hard to collect the new funds in time (do not expect everybody to read/be noticed, to agree or just to transfer money (especially those from foreign countries where fees would exceed the requested amount).
Furthermore I would like you to put a statement that those parts are belonging to the donators (in contrary to R&D donations). In case of bankrupcy (beware) I do not want to deal with an 'Insovenzverwalter'. And take a look into future what resources might have the same prob, so if that happens request full amount of desired money, not slice by slice.

--
positive aspect:
this will give you another chance to correct estimation of real number for to-be-expected orders.

ste-phan 2014-11-22 10:00
Re: Neo900 - finally a successor of N900
 
could you remind one of your humble 100euro donators one more time why the choice is between a common 512MB and a rare 1GB and not a common (?) 2GB?

thanks in advance and sure I agree to prpay parts. Hope is a valuable asset in life =)

jake42 2014-11-22 10:51
Re: Neo900 - finally a successor of N900
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ste-phan (Post 1448727)
could you remind one of your humble 100euro donators one more time why the choice is between a common 512MB and a rare 1GB and not a common (?) 2GB?
There aren't any 2 GigaByte RAM chips known which fit on an omap3. I also think an omap3 can't address 2GB of RAM in a sensible way, which might also explain why there aren't any POP chips with 2GB of RAM :-)

joerg_rw will most likely be able to explain this in more detail.

joerg_rw 2014-11-22 15:03
Re: Neo900 - finally a successor of N900
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by peterleinchen (Post 1448716)
Agreed.
But I think it will be hard to collect the new funds in time (do not expect everybody to read/be noticed, to agree or just to transfer money (especially those from foreign countries where fees would exceed the requested amount).
Furthermore I would like you to put a statement that those parts are belonging to the donators (in contrary to R&D donations). In case of bankrupcy (beware) I do not want to deal with an 'Insovenzverwalter'. And take a look into future what resources might have the same prob, so if that happens request full amount of desired money, not slice by slice.

--
positive aspect:
this will give you another chance to correct estimation of real number for to-be-expected orders.
Yes, all this is what we're pondering right now. Werner checked all other major parts for their risk status. We probably won't be able to do this whole thing in one week, but we can borrow the money from R&D funds for a while to allow this new thing to take the time it needs, while we evaluate the amount it needs in the end and we implement a proper shopping procedure to make sure this is no donation but a regular purchase.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ste-phan (Post 1448727)
could you remind one of your humble 100euro donators one more time why the choice is between a common 512MB and a rare 1GB and not a common (?) 2GB?

thanks in advance and sure I agree to prpay parts. Hope is a valuable asset in life =)
Quote:
Originally Posted by jake42 (Post 1448737)
There aren't any 2 GigaByte RAM chips known which fit on an omap3. I also think an omap3 can't address 2GB of RAM in a sensible way, which might also explain why there aren't any POP chips with 2GB of RAM :-)

joerg_rw will most likely be able to explain this in more detail.
Yes, the address lines (plus chip-select signals) of OMAP3 allow max 2 banks a 512MB

cheers
jOERG

dos1 2014-11-29 14:01
Re: Neo900 - finally a successor of N900
 
Short reminder: OHSW 2014 happens today!

YouTube channel with livestreams and recordings: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCP_...WsF_2EiG3s6BKA

Agenda: http://ohsw.org/

Neo900 talk is scheduled at 16:05 CET (so in about an hour - there might be some ~15 delay though, as the talks are a bit behind the schedule right now)

Sadly I got sick and couldn't manage to arrive there in person, but we'll do a video conference :)

[edit] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ahPFCFooBv0

joerg_rw 2014-12-22 09:55
Re: Neo900 - finally a successor of N900
 
time for bumping this thread :-)
we found 1GB RAM chips and got a 70 to evaluate if they work as expected. See http://neo900.org/stuff/joerg/N9_1GB-RAM/
Yesterday we received proto_V2 schematics rev2 from Golden Delicious Computers, for review and commenting: http://neo900.org/stuff/eaglefiles/p.../2_2014-12-21/
Setting up a webshop for starting risk parts purchase is not exactly an easy task. Lots of details need to get considered, again mostly around legalese and taxes

I'm away for the rest of the week and wish you all a Merry Christmas and already a happy new year

cheers
jOERG

reinob 2014-12-22 12:10
Re: Neo900 - finally a successor of N900
 
@Joerg,

Thanks a lot for the update! I'm eagerly but patiently waiting for my chance to have a Neo900 WITH 1GB OF RAM! :))))

In my calendar, 2015 is the year of the Neo900 :)

joerg_rw 2014-12-22 12:38
Re: Neo900 - finally a successor of N900
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by joerg_rw (Post 1448767)
Yes, all this is what we're pondering right now. Werner checked all other major parts for their risk status. We probably won't be able to do this whole thing in one week, but we can borrow the money from R&D funds for a while to allow this new thing to take the time it needs, while we evaluate the amount it needs in the end and we implement a proper shopping procedure to make sure this is no donation but a regular purchase.
Seems - for risk parts - regular sales from our side (purchase from your POV) introduces all sorts of VAT issues again - like "we don't ship physical goods (yet) so we need to pay German VAT like if we had shipped to Germany" (thanks to immaterial goods like software etc which otherwise we could claim they got sold to abroad even when they are not. German tax laws are a nightmare).
We already changed/'transformed' the "donations" to quite regular credits (see "fineprint *)") quite some time ago. I think it's probably the easiest most feasible path to go for the riskpart fundraiser as well.

Still pondering and evaluating our options. Comments and criticism welcome.

cheers
jOERG

*) With a little help from Google translate, so bear with me for unclear wording in english, it's not binding anyway, the german wording is legally binding though:
Quote:
The lender guaranteed respecting the Neo900 UG (haftungsbeschraenkt) a loan, repayable with the appearance of the product Neo900. S/He receives 2% interest per month on the loan amount (compound interest is not recompensed). In addition, s/he is added to the wishlist **) for product manufacturing. Interest payments are excluded for parts of the loan exceeding the sale price of devices ordered by the lender, at the time of loan repayment. Applicable amounts less than 100 € are treated as donations without a right to refund, repayment or distribution of any profits.
**) "wishlist" is as good as it gets, without already establishing a sale, according to my tax advisor. No "preorder". Sorry. You know what's the intention though.

which basically means you give a credit to Neo900 UG and you will receive it back at time of purchase of your device (of course we won't transfer money back and forth, we will simply treat the credit refund as down payment for the ordered device, once you place your order. Untl then, it's a credit we owe you)
And another sidenote to avoid confusion: when you gave a 100EUR to GDC and then transferred it, Neo900 UG owes you a 100EUR. There's no issue with the 13(?)% that stayed at GDC during transfer.
[edit 2] for the risk part credit we might have to sligtly modify the applicable "fineprint" - something along the line of "refundable any time. No interest. In case of payback the lender accepts that only the part of credit not used up for component sourcing gets refunded in cash. For the remainder the lender accepts purchasing of the goods from Neo900 UG instead of cash, all applicable taxes and fees apply to such sale"

joerg_rw 2014-12-22 14:19
Re: Neo900 - finally a successor of N900
 
secured another risk part: http://neo900.org/stuff/joerg/random..._cameraswitch/ (1000)
/j

BaronKatz 2014-12-26 20:09
Re: Neo900 - finally a successor of N900
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by hxka (Post 1445517)
The foremost cause of lags on N900 is the swapping. Having 4 times as RAM as N900 will eliminate that. The rest is software, having a faster CPU will get diminishing returns of smoothness.
Not since I started using Swappolube. Swapping is completely fine and smoother than any Android phone I have used. I have the Blackberry 10 now and it's A LOT choppier feeling than Maemo.

The problem is that once you try to integrate Facebook, Google, and all the rest of it into the N900, it starts to slow down and lag like crazy. Overclocking helps for a little bit but doesn't help that much. The battery dies too quickly, etc... The N900 works somewhat OK if you don't integrate those things, but that is one of the beauties of Maemo in the first place...

I just really hope that the processor and ram will be enough to get this going, which is why I would love to see some benchmark tests (specifically of an overclocked N900 to the Neo900, because the increase in ram might be a huge help but the processing speed is almost the same). Looking at the Linshof i8 that was supposed to come out but is halted now, I really hope this doesn't happen to the Neo900...

pichlo 2014-12-26 20:51
Re: Neo900 - finally a successor of N900
 
@BaronKatz,
I have an extensive experience with upgrading old hardware and you can trust me when I tell you that doubling the amount of RAM speeds up the machine at least 10x more than doubling the CPU speed. It is all down to having to swap less: even the fastest storage media are 100-1000x slower than even the slowest RAM so avoiding swapping has a tremendous effect. There is little point frying your CPU at 4 GHz if it spends most of the time waiting for thing to move between the RAM and the slow swap medium.

All those things you list (Falsebook, Google etc) boil down to using more RAM. At some point you run out and the machine has to start swapping. On the N900, that point is rather soon due to the small RAM size.

dos1 2014-12-28 02:03
Re: Neo900 - finally a successor of N900
 
The new progress update is here, check it out!
http://neo900.org/news/xmas-update

Happy New Year everyone! :)

joerg_rw 2014-12-30 23:57
Re: Neo900 - finally a successor of N900
 
This:
Quote:
Originally Posted by klinglerware (Post 1454176)
Neo900:

I hope that it succeeds. I myself have donated in hopes of buying two of them.

I have, of course, seen the friction between one of the Neo900 project leads and members of the maemo community. It is concerning, as the Neo900 has good potential in revitalizing interest in maemo. Not only that, based on the experiences of OpenPandora, open-source hardware is not easy to pull off successfully--cooperation would seem more optimal than antagonism, on the face of it.

I think we do have to respect Joerg's wishes if he does not want to cooperate directly with the community. But since many members of our community (including me) are still interested in seeing the Neo900 succeed, we still can support development indirectly: by encouraging development discussion on the board, and by sponsoring coding competitions et al, with categories that also target development that is Neo900 specific. (The same can also be said for Diablo and Jolla).
plus a few other similar statements ask for a clarification:

I never said I "does not want to cooperate directly with the community". I think this very thread is a clear proof that in fact Neo900 team is cooperating with the community in every possible way. I've been asked if Neo900 is a maemo community project (for listing it on some tmo post list of community projects). I explained that Neo900 is not a maemo project at all since maemo is a software and Neo900 is hardware and basically doesn't ship with any particular software. Furthermore Neo900 necessarily is a commercial project since physical hardware cannot get downloaded and shared under a GPL. The Neo900 UG is not involved in software development. No antagonism in that and nothing to feel concerned about.

Neo900 nevertheless is made to run with maemo as OS, for the maemo community (among others, like openmoko community) and the Neo900 crew is actively supporting the great guys of Fremantle Porting Task Force (FPTF) and welcomes everybody (community member or not) to seek for cooperation with FPTF crew and Neo900 team. I also want to ask everybody to please consider participation in FPTF and help with porting maemo.

Happy new year! :)
jOERG

klinglerware 2014-12-31 04:29
Re: Neo900 - finally a successor of N900
 
Thanks for the clarification, and for the reminder of the openness of your communication in this thread--you've certainly been much more transparent than OpenPandora was during its troubled beginnings.

My worry has been that some of the spirited community discussion that is off-topic to this thread may have the potential to spill over to negatively impact cooperation between the Neo900 hardware team and those that may want to develop/port the OS and applications.

The strictly-defined hardware goals of the Neo900 aside, I do see some opportunities for the maemo council to encourage development (e.g., coding competition, etc) and interest for the Neo900. Software-side and OS issues tackled for the Neo900 could also benefit the devices running fremantle/harmattan, and vice-versa. I see the effort to reverse engineer fremantle as an example of this sort of cross-polination.

In any case, thanks again for the clarification. As I mentioned in that quote, I am very hopeful about the success of the Neo900 project and the potential it has for injecting some new life into maemo development.

peterleinchen 2014-12-31 06:29
Re: Neo900 - finally a successor of N900
 
As klinglerware said:
thank you for this clear statement.

Happy new year to you and the whole Neo and FPTF team.

nokiabot 2014-12-31 12:49
Re: Neo900 - finally a successor of N900
 
Have a nice new year eve and a great new year !

joerg_rw 2015-01-05 23:19
off topic sidenote: Rigol
 
off topic sidenote: As mentioned in last newsletter, my local lab seen a Rigol DS1054 scope as latest new instrumentation acquisition. Nice tool, and I want to share a handy lil cmdline here for doing screenshots from it:

Code:
jr@saturn:~> cat `which rigol-screenshot `
#!/bin/sh
echo ':disp:data?' | netcat 192.168.4.52 5555 | dd bs=1M iflag=skip_bytes skip=11 of=$1
echo $?
jr@saturn:~> rigol-screenshot xxx.bmp
0+903 Datensätze ein
0+903 Datensätze aus
1152057 Bytes (1,2 MB) kopiert, 2,98393 s, 386 kB/s
0
[edit] improved version, now actually checks TMC header and coverts to arbitrary picture-format target files, just use the proper file ending (.jpg, .bmp, .png...)
Code:
#!/bin/bash
# usage: rigol-snapshot <filename_with_wellknown_imagefile_extension>
#        e.g.: rigol-snapshot pics/test.jpg
#  fetches a bmp formatted screenshot picture from Rigol DS1000 series, via ethernet
# TODO: proper handling of broken connection to Rigol, check netcat / read return code

RIGOL_IP=192.168.4.52  # adapt to your local situation, I used fixed DHCP IP for rigol in my router
set -e -u #might improve the TODO error handling as mentioned above. untested!!

echo ':disp:data?' | netcat -w 1 $RIGOL_IP 5555\
 | (shopt -s extglob;\
    read -N 1 -t 0.1 magichash;
    read -N 1 -t 0.1 lenofnum;
    read -N $lenofnum -t 0.1 numofbytes;
    head -c ${numofbytes##*(0)} ;
    echo "magic: $magichash; len: $lenofnum; bytes: ${numofbytes##*(0)}" >&2\
  )\
 | convert bmp:- $1
echo "returncode: $?" >&2
funny detail: the data transfer is 3 times as fast when the scope is in STOP mode.

ps: don't miss our fine new whitepaper on NFC

TomJ 2015-02-04 11:54
Re: Neo900 - finally a successor of N900
 
Any news from January?

joerg_rw 2015-02-04 12:40
Re: Neo900 - finally a successor of N900
 
Sorry, I suffered (and still do) a flu which paralyzed me, and it seems the other guys took a well deserved off time. I however hope that some news will come up RSN. [edit] also please see the link in prev post to our fine whitepaper regarding NFC (date of release: 2015-01-05) which took quite some work to acquire the expertise and prepare the paper. Please bear with me for staying in bed or braindead in front of TV for the last 6 weeks

/j

klinglerware 2015-02-04 13:12
Re: Neo900 - finally a successor of N900
 
Get well soon, Joerg!

endsormeans 2015-02-04 18:01
Re: Neo900 - finally a successor of N900
 
ditto...
my deepest sympathies...
recover and recoup man...

My gramps woulda suggested lotsa raw garlic, onions, jalapenos and stiff mean serious drinks to burn it out.
Works epically quick and well...
tho... it seems it is hard to focus on elapsed time and the misery of the flu when you are on fire and pickled cross-eyed :D

joerg_rw 2015-02-05 15:14
Re: Neo900 - finally a successor of N900
 
temporary problem:

none :-)

TomJ 2015-02-05 15:52
Re: Neo900 - finally a successor of N900
 
Your cold must be spreading to the DNS... Good to hear it's not killed you off.

joerg_rw 2015-02-06 18:09
Re: Neo900 - finally a successor of N900
 
we received first semi-working BeagleBoard-xM with 1GB RAM rework.
see http://irclog.whitequark.org/neo900/...2-06#11758212; ff
A second BB-xM fried the SoC during rework, we'll retry with a fresh SoC and fresh RAM PoP

[update] booted up to 512MB RAM (no NAND for now, since the xLoader isn't configured to handle that particular NAND on BB yet). Quoting Nikolaus:
Quote:
Linux has booted after disabling the NAND init code in MLO. With 512 MB RAM (because that is configured into the device tree).
Ethernet works, USB works. LEDs are blinking. ssh over Ethernet works. apt-get update/upgrade does not fail (which I hope is testing the RAM well enough).
Looking forward to DT patches and then seeing a blasting 1GB of RAM in linux :)

[update 2] http://projects.goldelico.com/p/neo900/issues/678/ and - only remotely on topic and maybe rather for FPTF thread: http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/...ry/069618.html http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/...ry/069617.html

cheers
jOERG

sulu 2015-02-09 09:27
Re: Neo900 - finally a successor of N900
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by joerg_rw (Post 1459843)
Quoting Nikolaus:
[..]
Quote:
apt-get update/upgrade does not fail (which I hope is testing the RAM well enough).
Certainly a good start, but it's no replacement for a proper test.
memtester [1] would be more reliable.


[1] https://packages.debian.org/sid/memtester

joerg_rw 2015-02-09 10:48
Re: Neo900 - finally a successor of N900
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by sulu (Post 1460159)
Certainly a good start, but it's no replacement for a proper test.
memtester [1] would be more reliable.


[1] https://packages.debian.org/sid/memtester
This is not meant to *test* the complete RAM for bad bits or whatever. Rather it's supposed to verify that RAM generally works and has no short-circuited address bus lines or terribly wrong timing or whatever (think PC POST mem-test). For that it's just fine.

Thanks nevertheless for the hint, we will need it later on :-)

/j

wicket 2015-02-13 04:00
Re: Neo900 - finally a successor of N900
 
The Neo900 website says that the Neo900 will come bundled with Debian. Is this still the case? If so, what do you have planned?

I currently maintain a set of scripts to assist with the installation of Debian on the N900. I would gladly collaborate with bringing Debian to the Neo900 if you would like any help. My current plan is that my scripts will eventually form the basis for a full mobile Linux distribution based on Debian and/or Devuan.

Some have suggested that I might be eligible to receive one of the Mozilla donated N900s. I only have one N900 which is my daily device so to have second one dedicated to development and testing would be a great help. Are there any left?

It sounds like Android_808 might benefit from one too.

joerg_rw 2015-03-09 14:16
Re: Neo900 - finally a successor of N900
 
We did it! :) Prolly the first BeagleBoard-xM worldwide with 1GB RAM - for sure the only device except Nokia N9 I know of that has a OMAP3 and 1GB RAM on PoP *): (quoting a report I received from Nikolaus)
Code:
Texas Instruments X-Loader (MLO) 1.4.4ss modified for GTA04 (Mar  7 2015 - 18:35:51)

> OMAP36XX/37XX-GP ES2.1
> Board detected: Beagle xM Rev A
> SYSBOOT[5:0]: 0x12/18
> GMPC Memory: 3
> SDRC Memory 5 5: SAMSUNG MCP 512(?)MB/bank

^^^ well, this is currently hard-forced in my code

> Reading FAT boot sector
> Loading u-boot.bin (296020 bytes) from mmc/sd
>
>
> U-Boot 2011.03-rc1-00967-g671281f (Feb 09 2015 - 16:15:52)
>
> OMAP36XX/37XX-GP ES2.1, CPU-OPP2, L3-165MHz, Max CPU Clock 1 Ghz
> OMAP3 Beagle board + LPDDR/NAND
> I2C:  ready
> DRAM:  1 GiB

^^^ looks good!

>
> —— snip ——
>
> [    0.000000] Memory: 1004440K/1047552K available (5817K kernel code, 592K rwdata, 2280K rodata, 404K init, 8173K bss, 26728K reserved, 16384K cma-reserved, 252928K highmem)

Linux is now booting (didn’t with this mirrored RAM address ranges)!

>
> —— snip ——
>
> Linux gta04 3.19.0-gta04+ #992 SMP Mon Feb 9 09:04:09 CET 2015 armv7l
>
> The programs included with the Debian GNU/Linux system are free software;
> the exact distribution terms for each program are described in the
> individual files in /usr/share/doc/*/copyright.
>
> Debian GNU/Linux comes with ABSOLUTELY NO WARRANTY, to the extent
> permitted by applicable law.
> root@gta04:~# cat /proc/meminfo
> MemTotal:        1021228 kB
> MemFree:          905016 kB
> MemAvailable:    995204 kB
> Buffers:            7076 kB
> Cached:            89968 kB
> SwapCached:            0 kB
> Active:            69492 kB
> Inactive:          31260 kB
> Active(anon):      3728 kB
> Inactive(anon):      148 kB
> Active(file):      65764 kB
> Inactive(file):    31112 kB
> Unevictable:          0 kB
> Mlocked:              0 kB
> HighTotal:        269312 kB
> HighFree:        242656 kB
> LowTotal:        751916 kB
> LowFree:          662360 kB
> SwapTotal:            0 kB
> SwapFree:              0 kB
> Dirty:              452 kB
> Writeback:            0 kB
> AnonPages:          3712 kB
> Mapped:            6664 kB
> Shmem:              172 kB
> Slab:              12100 kB
> SReclaimable:      6716 kB
> SUnreclaim:        5384 kB
> KernelStack:        448 kB
> PageTables:          216 kB
> NFS_Unstable:          0 kB
> Bounce:                0 kB
> WritebackTmp:          0 kB
> CommitLimit:      510612 kB
> Committed_AS:      29916 kB
> VmallocTotal:    245760 kB
> VmallocUsed:      23120 kB
> VmallocChunk:    125352 kB
> CmaTotal:          16384 kB
> CmaFree:          16128 kB
> root@gta04:~#
Many thanks to Ivo and Nikolaus!

We now urgently need to raise more funds to secure those 1GB chips for the number of devices we plan to build, as well as for other similar risk parts. We also are about to source a sufficient number of used/refurbished N900 to revamp for the LCD, digitizer, mechanical parts, for those who want a complete device rather than a PCB to upgrade their own N900. Those will presumably also cost ~100some bucks per device, so we need to raise "funds" for those too, from prospect customers of complete Neo900.
I'm in the painful process to set up a proper webshop where you can place regular preorders to purchase parts of your Neo900 we're going to build for you, please stay tuned and keep your kitty in reach :-). The target for this preorder DOWNPAYMENT will be around 300EUR (total incl any "donation" you already did) for the NeoN bare board which will cover ~40% of the final price, and a 150EUR on top for the N900 we will use to mount the NeoN board into for you (you'll receive a supposedly working spare N900(!) PCB with that).

cheers
jOERG

*) some question that arrived at me was: "why don't you go for 2 or 4 GB already?" A: 1GB is the physical maximum an OMAP3 can address. So we hit the limit, can't do any better

CRCulver 2015-03-09 17:14
Re: Neo900 - finally a successor of N900
 
A year ago I definitely would have ordered this device, even with the ~700€ price tag. But with all the delays (and while you’ve announced a webshop, you are still not actually selling this product), my interest has waned. I’m sure I’m not the only one. While I would have liked a phone focused on privacy, I think I’ll simply use a competing smartphone for the bare minimum and do most of my computing needs on a notebook.

That’s not to denigrate your efforts, joerg_rw. Obviously you’ve had lots of fun with this project and it would have been a rewarding experience even if no one ultimately bought the phone. But it’s worth voicing some disappointment that, I think, many others here share.

wolke 2015-03-09 17:26
Re: Neo900 - finally a successor of N900
 
id be with you, CRCulver, except that there actually arent any competing phones (except perhaps jolla, if its available in your country).

every other option is either ridiculously anti-freedom (android) or non-feature-competitive (openmoko/shr/etc).

the n900 and the n9 are easily the best phones that exist, on balance, for freedom+usability. aaand they STILL both suck so hard that its difficult to decide which one is better.

if a jolla2 was suddenly on sale with an LTE radio for my region, then maybe id have to make a tough decision.

MartinK 2015-03-09 17:56
Re: Neo900 - finally a successor of N900
 
Don't forget maybe the main thing that sets the Neo900 project apart from the other open/semi-open solutions: a separate baseband modem fully "sandboxed" by the application CPU.

Many other devices might run more or less open operating systems, but they are still on the mercy of the baseband modem runing a fully proprietary firmware not doing shady stuff in the background (or even touching the application CPU memory!) without basically any means to find about it.

Neo900 is about the only modern smartphone project I know about where the modem is controlled by the application CPU, not the other way around and where it can be verifiably powered down, denied access to the microphone, etc. And that's something you can really do without hardware support with just a software solution...

juiceme 2015-03-09 19:16
Re: Neo900 - finally a successor of N900
 
@MartinK you are absolutely right there. As good and open the Jolla device is, Neo900 is alone in its class, peerless.

In all the "modern" devices baseband processing has been integrated on the same silicon with O&M processing, making it necessarily for the device to run unknown, closed, unaudited binaries as ring-0 processes on the same CPU that processes all user data. :mad:

This is especially bad as the chipset vendors have tight coupling with military-industrial blocks in the world superpowers;
It is well known that Qualcomm is owned and operated by USAF and I have no doubt that chinese solutions have similar ties with PLA.

CRCulver 2015-03-09 20:44
Re: Neo900 - finally a successor of N900
 
This is all very well known to people who have been following this project for a long time. However, it remains a mere project. As long as there is no actual product for sale, then it is hard to boast about its supposed specifications.

Furthermore, the N900 screen resolution and even the upgraded Neo900 specifications seem more antiquated by the day – this should have shipped a year ago, and I think a lot of people have decided, privacy be damned, they are going to use something up to date. The Neo900 is now sort of like a project saying in the age of tablets “Hey, look, here’s a Sharp Zaurus-like device that cares about your privacy!”.

MartinK 2015-03-09 21:24
Re: Neo900 - finally a successor of N900
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by CRCulver (Post 1463571)
Furthermore, the N900 screen resolution
Please show me another real Linux smartphone with a toushc screen as precise as the N900 - precise enough to edit OpenStreetMap or to draw gorgeous pictures.


Quote:
Originally Posted by CRCulver (Post 1463571)
and even the upgraded Neo900 specifications seem more antiquated by the day – this should have shipped a year ago, and I think a lot of people have decided, privacy be damned, they are going to use something up to date. The Neo900 is now sort of like a project saying in the age of tablets “Hey, look, here’s a Sharp Zaurus-like device that cares about your privacy!”.
I think a slightly updated Sharp Zaurus running a close to normal Linux distro would be really nice. :)


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