Re: Microsoft buying Nokia's devices & services
 

After all of the uproar over what Apple was doing in regards to their cash stash they keep overseas; hell yes. Because not one soul said anything about this pertaining Microsoft but kept pointing out Apple only. I'm willing to believe this is more of the norm than not.

Oh well... Nokia got "bought". They still have 60+ Billion - let's see who's next.

Re: Microsoft buying Nokia's devices & services
 

I suppose you overlooked the part where they're offshore tax havens (ie. loophole style tax avoidance).

Do you think maybe Microsoft got a nice quiet pass on tax avoidance for giving the gov't a nice slick easy back-door way to monitor customers?

Re: Microsoft buying Nokia's devices & services
 

I think lumiaman comes from Greece. I could be wrong though...

Anybody knows if surface2 will have hdmi? Or will it be called Nokia lumia surface 2

Re: Microsoft buying Nokia's devices & services
 

More and more people are using devices like tablets for web surfing. Companies like Samsung and LG are building browsers into TVs. Tablet sales are rising whilst PC sales are falling, IDC predict tablets will overtake PCs this quarter.

In other programming forums I participate in there's currently lots of discussions about what's the best Linux distro to migrate to once Microsoft pulls support for XP. Windows is becoming less and less relevant.

Every Empire in history has fallen eventually.



I think you're wrong, the BRIC countries are even discussing building their own internet infrastructure circumventing USA and Europe.

Re: Microsoft buying Nokia's devices & services
 

http://www.microsoft.com/surface/en-au
Happy reading. N.B. there's Surface 2 & Surface 2 Pro, WinRT & Win8...
And no, there will be no Nokia name/branding used for what's a 100% MS product.

Nokia however is rumoured to be releasing their 1st & last WinRT tablet on the 22nd.
It's codenamed Sirius & rumoured to be called "Nokia 2520", IIRC Lumia isn't in the name.

/off-topic

Re: Microsoft buying Nokia's devices & services
 

Wonder if they will success with that tablet? I hope they fail as hell because they killed theyr own good tablet already :mad:

/off-topic

Re: Microsoft buying Nokia's devices & services
 

It's unfortunate they opted for a WinRT tablet, it would've been more interesting to me if they went with Win8.
I doubt I'll end-up wanting it more than the Surface 2 Pro or even the Surface 2, but, we have to wait & see.

/off-topic

Re: Microsoft buying Nokia's devices & services
 

Only way Nokia could sell those tablets even moderately, would be to leak (tor) step-by-step instructions how to install Cyanogen or Replicant Android to it.

Re: Microsoft buying Nokia's devices & services
 

Well, they could at least do as well as the Surface... ;-)
They look good to me, I think I'll get lots of productivity out of mine, looking forward to comparing to other tablets.

/off-topic

Re: Microsoft buying Nokia's devices & services
 

Surface did ok after all. It's now an established brand. Sure, it has and will continue to cost but they are gaining market shares slowly.

If Apple could get an tablet or hybrid of air with osx that could kill surface.

Re: Microsoft buying Nokia's devices & services
 

That's a sure-fire way to make an already barely selling product sell even less. Having the ability to install Cyanogenmod, et al, is only appealing to a minority of the people.

Just as it seems the Surface RT. So to see Nokia build that first, possibly... shows how in touch with customer needs they were in the end.

Read: Not at all.

Re: Microsoft buying Nokia's devices & services
 

Oh cmon!!

..........

Re: Microsoft buying Nokia's devices & services
 

well, i'd say thats quite a pessimistic view to hold... I feel you are correct that the slice of public intrested in such a thing is fairly small but every sale counts, right? And I fail to see why would it make it sell less really?


Yes, it really makes no sense to introduce new RT tablets when the current offering has shown people how useless it is. With windows tablets I am afraid the pro version is the only usable solution[*]

[*] For windos-liking people, that is. For quite a lot of people nothing that comes from MS is usable...

Re: Microsoft buying Nokia's devices & services
 

To be fair, there's LOTS of murmurings lately about some big changes coming to RT, i.e. making it mostly like Win8 & getting rid of of it's major annoyances, that remains to be seen though.

Re: Microsoft buying Nokia's devices & services
 

I wouldn't say it's pessimistic as much as it's realistic. Don't get me wrong, that's on my mind whenever I purchase something - "What operating systems can I place on this gadget" and "Can I root this thing?" are actually always in my mind. But I'm realistic enough to know that I'm a minority in that.

And it probably won't make it sell less; it just won't help it sell more.

Here's where I become the hypocrite. I own a Surface RT - but it was purchased for me by a company to evaluate its validity as a platform. I told them to pass but kept the RT anyway (they offered).

It's not as much bad as it's just missing the point. RT shouldn't have a desktop mode whatsoever. Makes no sense since I can't install whatever I want. So it's just a waste. Nokia going for RT is like them going for Windows Phone 7 sales after Windows Phone 8 announced that they'd not have an upgrade path.

Re: Microsoft buying Nokia's devices & services
 

As long as Google and apple don't have a tablet with full desktop experience surface pro is a valid alternative. I can see surface continue to grow in the years to come since many are familiar with Windows desktop/laptop. It would help if microsoft could decrease the price for the pro...

Surface pro 2 feels like the most exciting product from Microsoft and would be cool if they could push full desktop experience to 5 inch phone in the years to come.

Hope apple do something simular with Ipad.

Re: Microsoft buying Nokia's devices & services
 

Apple's going in the other direction. They're merging tablet user experience into the desktop OS. Launchpad brings the iOS icon based type of launcher to the desktop. Notifications are now present and they're a lot like the notifications on iOS 6.

And if you think about it (think long term), there's gotta be a reason why they're converging. And I think the iPhone 5S is the clue.

64-bit ARM chip, integrating their mobile OS workflows (full screen apps, aforesaid items, et al) into the desktop could mean sooner than later they will have a ARM based MacBook AIR that could offer incredible battery life that the Surface Pro and even Surface RT cannot offer. And what's to stop them from converting all but their Pro offerings onto ARM? The software is the only hurdle at the moment - same issue on Windows RT.

If that's the case, Surface is indeed going in the wrong direction. Having a desktop on a product that's touted as being your "tablet" is just wrong. Metro is truly a mobile OS interface. Large, touch enabled, and finger friendly. After trying to use the Surface RT and going into the desktop, I've all but lost my religion. Hit areas are far too small, it just seems wrong without a keyboard and mouse.

Microsoft truly needs to have Desktop, Tablet and Phone levels of UI's. Desktop would include Enterprise, having Windows 2012 Server also have the Metro UI is just plain wrong.

Re: Microsoft buying Nokia's devices & services
 

Buying a Nokia tablet just to root it and run Linux instead is just plain ridicilous when there already exists others.

Why the f... do you want to pay taxes to Microsoft to run Linux? It has been so for years now! Thats how they had run theyr desktop/laptop bussiness time to stop feed them!

Re: Microsoft buying Nokia's devices & services
 

The build quality on some of those other tablets is just plain poor though.

Re: Microsoft buying Nokia's devices & services
 

They can't fix the annoyances of RT. The main problem is that it looks exactly the same as Win8 and people *will* be misled in store. Then go back to the store and ask the rep: "There is a problem with my new laptop (tablet)" I downloaded (Firefox|vlc|chrome|whatever) and it doesn't get installed"

Tell me what would you do if you were that rep, the next time a possibly clueless customer is courting the Yoga 11.
"Dear sir, this is not a real PC it cannot run your favorite software, you know that, yes?"
Still wondering why it doesn't sell?

This cannot be fixed unfortunately. Linux on ARM makes sense as you still have all the apps in repos, readily recompiled for you. It is impossible to recompile the world of windows, and an emulator is out of the question, not enough grunt.

They lost their chance to make that work. If they released RT with a home screen different enough and without a desktop it could have worked.

Re: Microsoft buying Nokia's devices & services
 

That is indeed a valid concern and one that Microsoft has yet to address. Looking like the Surface 2/Surface 2 Pro will continue down that path of not differentiating the different chips and limitations of the OS's again.

Training can only do so much. But you're right... they've yet to address the clueless. Perhaps it will be another $900 million+ mistake.

I keep telling folks that will listen...

Windows 8.1 RT = Metro start tiles - Desktop + unified mobile non x86 store (labeled as such)
Windows 8.1 Pro = Metro + Desktop + x86 store (labeled as such)
Windows 8.x Phone = Metro start tiles + unified mobile non x86 store (labeled as such)
Windows 2012 Server = Metro (optional, I personally HATE it on Server) + Desktop + Powershell + x86 store + MSDN

Drop non-Pro Windows OS, only Windows 8.1 Pro.

Re: Microsoft buying Nokia's devices & services
 

It's too early to say, it sounds like they've got some major changes planned for RT, I'll hold final judgment till then.
But yeah, so far Win 8 tablets are looking way more interesting to me...

Re: Microsoft buying Nokia's devices & services
 

I've recently splashed out on a new laptop. After 6+ years of using Linux exclusively on my home machine, the idea of paying Microsoft Tax™ really stroked my hair the wrong way. So I spent a lot of time researching into buying a new, reasonably specced laptop without Windows preinstalled.

I hate to say that I failed miserably. Yes, there are options, but at least here in the UK the reality is such that a new laptop without Windows is at least 20% more expensive than the equivalent with Windows on. In my case it translates to saving about £150 by giving part of it to Microsoft. Much as I hate myself for that, I took those 150 pieces of silver and now I pay for it with my frustration with Windows 8's huge step back in terms of usability.

I understand the economics of it: OS-free or Linux-preinstlled laptops sell in much smaller quantities through small companies who cannot afford to push the prices down the way the behemoths like Dell do. But the point is that yes, people will continue using Windows. Not necessarily through conscious choice but through a perceived lack of other options.

Re: Microsoft buying Nokia's devices & services
 

"Normal" desktop Linuxes have poor touchscreen support and applications are not designed for a touch screen UX.
Therefore Android (Cyanogen/Replicant) could actually be a working solution and I was not fully joking when I said Nokia should just leak instructions (via Tor) how step-by-step Android can be installed to their tablet-device.

@mikecomputing: Just start making Qt-apps to Android while waiting some other Linux variant (, which you'd like more, and me too perhaps) is really alive. Android-devices are good, they just work, although they are not perfect.

Re: Microsoft buying Nokia's devices & services
 

I understand and empathize with you. I did the same thing about a year ago but, truthfully, I would be okay with it if there was an option for refunding me back the cost of the bundled software that I will never use and never wanted with the hardware I did want. I'd be okay with that, at least.

Re: Microsoft buying Nokia's devices & services
 

When you purchase a new Windows PC it often comes preloaded with a 30 day demo of software a, b and c and a lite version of software x, y and z. The vendors of those programs pay large volume manufacturers to preinstall them on new PCs and cummulatively those payments add up to more than the cost of an OEM Windows license.

Although it irritates me that PCs invariably come with Windows preinstalled the 'Windows Tax' to the end user is actually probably zero.

If you're determined to get an OS free PC in the UK ebuyer's Zoostorm range are the best I know of. For laptops they only seem to have pink in available at the moment but I think it looks a decent spec for the money.

Re: Microsoft buying Nokia's devices & services
 

Here we go again with Android propaganda. Ever heard of plasmaactive?

Re: Microsoft buying Nokia's devices & services
 

>Ever heard of plasmaactive?

Plasma Active is not based on a "Normal desktop Linux". It is based on Mer, which is a mobile optimised Linux. You are simply helping zimon make his point.

Re: Microsoft buying Nokia's devices & services
 

apps, apps, apps.
Apps with a touchscreen UX.

http://www.appbrain.com/stats/number-of-android-apps

That's why Jolla has ACL in Sailfish and that's why Samsung will have ACL in Tizen.

Android's SDK and Java language apparently just works. It is relatively easy to make scalable apps with those, so lower and higher level hw is supported w/o too much hassle, and small & big screen sizes.
Qt enables the above also, but it is more difficult and bad programmers can mess things up easily.
I very much doubt, if there ever will be even 20% of touch screen UX Qt apps compared to number of Android apps.

Re: Microsoft buying Nokia's devices & services
 

Microsoft buying Nokia?
The vision is realized.....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fI_xu...r_embedded#t=1

Re: Microsoft buying Nokia's devices & services
 

That's sadly appropriate.

Re: Microsoft buying Nokia's devices & services
 

There used to be a way to get discount when buying a laptop with pre-installed Windows.
You could return the installation disks to manufacturer (or was it directly to MS?) and wipe the OS out from the HDD and they'd mail you a check for the price of the OS.
I wonder at what point (and how, by what right?) they made that impossible since I have not heard of anything like that in the last 10 years or so...

Re: Microsoft buying Nokia's devices & services
 

It might have something to do with the fact that you no longer get the installation disc. Instead, everything is now on an OEM partition, recovery partition or whatever your dealer calls it. Quite a PITA if you ask me, 12GB wasted in my case.

Re: Microsoft buying Nokia's devices & services
 

This should be lobbied in EU and in US to be possible again. That is how it should be as it is technically easily possible. Especially nowadays when Microsoft also requires to register your product on-line.

Re: Microsoft buying Nokia's devices & services
 

I think you used to be able to reject the terms of the EULA and request a refund for the license fee based on that but the manufacturers (possibly under pressure from Microsoft) then started insisting you had to send the whole kit and caboodle back so it was all or nothing.

Re: Microsoft buying Nokia's devices & services
 

The smoking gun.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/terokuit...-compensation/

I knew it.

Elop was brought on board to destroy Nokia handsets and sell it to Microhard. It's right there in the contract, a bonus if this happens.
So they (the Board) gave up on handsets that long ago and intended to shed that part of their business.
When they were called on it by the media they tried to play it off as a professional mistake. They looked away for 3 years while he destroyed every part of Nokia handset and carrier relations!

Slashdot rewrote Elop's burning platform Memo in light of this. It's kind of funny.
http://slashdot.org/topic/cloud/a-ti...platform-memo/

Full market and management analysis of how Elop destroyed Nokia handset.
http://communities-dominate.blogs.co...able-to-s.html

Elop belongs in jail and so does any board members that did not object to his decisions. These 1%ers need reality to hit them in the face so they don't play with other people lives like that, like it is a surreal game, like there are no real consequences.
There is a clear conflict of interest here and all agreements with M$ need to be cancelled and if it is going to be sold it should be open to all bidders not a secret closed deal at a low price.

Re: Microsoft buying Nokia's devices & services
 

LOL. And you just realized now? Tells you how little confidence Finns had in people that went to Jolla.

Re: Microsoft buying Nokia's devices & services
 

Ray of hope?

(I know this mentioned before, but not this article)

Re: Microsoft buying Nokia's devices & services
 

I don't think it'll get wings, they left it waaaay too late, investors just aren't listening any more.
They're only hearing sweet whisperings in their ears from the primary bidding camp nowadays.
I wish them luck but it looks quite amateurish, & mostly "big talk" that they can't deliver on...
I hope I'm wrong though, I really do....

Re: Microsoft buying Nokia's devices & services
 

Just got an SMS invitation to the shareholders meeting on 19th this month.
It'll be intresting... :D