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-   The Other Half (https://talk.maemo.org/forumdisplay.php?f=59)
-   -   Producing Qwerty OtherHalf --order counter: 75/75 --ordering closed (https://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=91535)

meShell 2014-04-02 18:50
Re: Producing Qwerty OtherHalf --order counter: 75/75 --ordering closed
 
good luck !

stefanmohl 2014-04-02 19:05
Re: Producing Qwerty OtherHalf --order counter: 75/75 --ordering closed
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by dirkvl (Post 1419626)
exams on monday and tuesday, then moar assembling!
If it's an electronic/computer engineering subject, you can likely ask people here at TMO for help :-)

Hount 2014-04-03 07:35
Re: Producing Qwerty OtherHalf --order counter: 75/75 --ordering closed
 
I tried to read trough the whole thread, but it did not spot why did you choose to use this particular keyboard?
There are many better keyboards out there. For me swapping from Motorola Droid 4 keyboard to this would feel a big disappointment & regression.

- Hount

dirkvl 2014-04-03 10:52
Re: Producing Qwerty OtherHalf --order counter: 75/75 --ordering closed
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hount (Post 1419707)
I tried to read trough the whole thread, but it did not spot why did you choose to use this particular keyboard?
because:
-it is available (both keypad and domesheet! 100 pieces)
-it is affordable (<10$ for keypad and domesheet)
-it has an easy contruction

stated a lot of times in this thread. for instance:

Quote:
Originally Posted by dirkvl (Post 1408752)
The reasons for this are repeated a lot of times in this thread! But -again- a quick recap: availability of both the keyboard and domesheet and ease of construction. A lot of suggestions resulted in keyboards that were not even for sale. Also, the way the a855 kb is made will result in a very simple and strong part.
or
Quote:
Originally Posted by dirkvl (Post 1408255)
This has been stated before, but again:
1. domesheet is not available
2. makes construction more complex and thus weaker.
As stated before, the key in building a successful qwerty-oh is using of-the-shelf products!


Quote:
Originally Posted by Hount (Post 1419707)
There are many better keyboards out there.
Sure there are! Find me one that fulfills all three. But given that I have searched for two months, I highly doubt you will find one.

Or design your own one!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hount (Post 1419707)
For me swapping from Motorola Droid 4 keyboard to this would feel a big disappointment & regression.
Thanks for the compliment.. NOT! Anyway, it is all sold out!

Try to design and build your own, my files are online. I think you will very quickly run into a brick wall when you want to purchase your perfect keypad.

stefanmohl 2014-04-03 11:48
Re: Producing Qwerty OtherHalf --order counter: 75/75 --ordering closed
 
Hount, you could try to build one with an N900 keyboard for yourself, Dirkvl did his first prototypes with an N900 keyboard, so we know that it works. You will likely have to buy a used N900 and butcher it for parts to get the keyboard and domesheet. That is not an option for Dirkvl when he is building 75 of them, but OK when just building one.

Kabouik 2014-04-03 21:09
Re: Producing Qwerty OtherHalf --order counter: 75/75 --ordering closed
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by stefanmohl (Post 1419741)
Hount, you could try to build one with an N900 keyboard for yourself, Dirkvl did his first prototypes with an N900 keyboard, so we know that it works. You will likely have to buy a used N900 and butcher it for parts to get the keyboard and domesheet. That is not an option for Dirkvl when he is building 75 of them, but OK when just building one.
By the way if anybody does that someday, please give instructions for people not experienced in that sort of DIY. I have two N900, including one with broken USB port, and its keyboard would be perfect for me (I prefer it over the Droid's one, but understand there were constraints here).

Can anyone answer the below question please?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kabouik (Post 1418252)
Is your OH completely flat when closed? On mine, the top side of the external layer (where the camera hole is) is 2 mm away from the main part, while the bottom side firmly touches the main part. I tried to correct it but couldn't. The result is that the half profile is not "straight" when closed.

dirkvl 2014-04-04 07:25
Re: Producing Qwerty OtherHalf --order counter: 75/75 --ordering closed
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kabouik (Post 1419802)
By the way if anybody does that someday, please give instructions for people not experienced in that sort of DIY. I have two N900, including one with broken USB port, and its keyboard would be perfect for me (I prefer it over the Droid's one, but understand there were constraints here).
The constraints for not using the n900 keyboard were the availability of the keyboard and domesheet in large quantities. But also, I think the keyboard of the N900 is waaayyyyyyy too small for the Jolla.

If anyone still wants to persue this, let me know and I can help!


Quote:
Originally Posted by Kabouik (Post 1419802)
Is your OH completely flat when closed? On mine, the top side of the external layer (where the camera hole is) is 2 mm away from the main part, while the bottom side firmly touches the main part. I tried to correct it but couldn't. The result is that the half profile is not "straight" when closed.
they all seem to have that a little. there should be a gap -to be able to slide the keyboard out- all around, but it seems the hinge still pushes a bit to twist it.

Hount 2014-04-04 12:04
Re: Producing Qwerty OtherHalf --order counter: 75/75 --ordering closed
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by dirkvl (Post 1419730)
because:
-it is available (both keypad and domesheet! 100 pieces)
-it is affordable (<10$ for keypad and domesheet)
-it has an easy contruction
Okay, thanks for the answer. I must have missed it (60+ pages, no wonder)



Quote:
Originally Posted by dirkvl (Post 1419730)
Sure there are! Find me one that fulfills all three. But given that I have searched for two months, I highly doubt you will find one.

Or design your own one!
Yes. I agree, there may not be any that match all three requirements. I don't have enough free time over my work and hobby projects to build my own. That's why I really appreciate your work on this. Thank you.


Quote:
Originally Posted by dirkvl (Post 1419730)
Thanks for the compliment.. NOT! Anyway, it is all sold out!
Okay... no need to be offensive. I was only asking why you chose this particular keyboard and gave my personal usage habit comparison to your current keyboard design. I've been following your work with great enthusiasm. But I chose not to order this particular keyboard for the reasons I stated earlier. Thanks for clarifying that all are sold out.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dirkvl (Post 1419730)
Try to design and build your own, my files are online. I think you will very quickly run into a brick wall when you want to purchase your perfect keypad.
That will most likely be the case if I would ever build my own keyboard. I would probably scrap my one keyboard from otherwise broken phone as I would require only one keyboard. Not 100 or 75.

- Hount

Hount 2014-04-04 12:08
Re: Producing Qwerty OtherHalf --order counter: 75/75 --ordering closed
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by stefanmohl (Post 1419741)
Hount, you could try to build one with an N900 keyboard for yourself, Dirkvl did his first prototypes with an N900 keyboard, so we know that it works. You will likely have to buy a used N900 and butcher it for parts to get the keyboard and domesheet. That is not an option for Dirkvl when he is building 75 of them, but OK when just building one.
After giving out my last N900 I've used so many good physical qwerty phones that I've grown out from the 3 row'er that I used to like with N900. I still have couple of N900 keyboards, circuit boards, broken screens and other spare parts if I ever were to use them in any project. I'll probably better recycle them as I'm not going to build anything out of them. But if you need them I'm happy to give the spare parts to you? After all it was you who brought up the N900. I'd prefer something with more keys .

- Hount

stefanmohl 2014-04-04 13:03
Re: Producing Qwerty OtherHalf --order counter: 75/75 --ordering closed
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hount (Post 1419880)
But if you need them I'm happy to give the spare parts to you?

- Hount
Thanks for the offer, but I have enough N900 and spares lying around myself :-)

Kabouik 2014-04-04 17:40
Re: Producing Qwerty OtherHalf --order counter: 75/75 --ordering closed
 
Give him one and he'll make a N900KBOH for me! :>

Uitto 2014-04-10 14:56
Re: Producing Qwerty OtherHalf --order counter: 75/75 --ordering closed
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by dirkvl (Post 1419626)
8 on the mail tomorrow!

Jouni, Jesse, Teemu, Harri (2x), Tuomo, Martin, Florian

exams on monday and tuesday, then moar assembling!
Heard mine arrived today! Just perfectly couple days after my birthday :)

I'll be home tomorrow afternoon and can have this under the test.

Thank you!

pycage 2014-04-10 16:29
Re: Producing Qwerty OtherHalf --order counter: 75/75 --ordering closed
 
Mine arrived today. Thanks, dirkvl!

Now, let's see how to make it work... :)
The case is pretty tight and required some work to get on the Jolla. The difference to the official cases is that the official ones are more bendable and thus not that tight, despite the same measurements.

Edit: all keys work! :)
Well done, dirkvl and kimmoli!

dirkvl 2014-04-10 17:30
Re: Producing Qwerty OtherHalf --order counter: 75/75 --ordering closed
 
good to hear!

doing some assembling this evening, hope to send another batch tomorrow!

Kotka 2014-04-10 18:09
Re: Producing Qwerty OtherHalf --order counter: 75/75 --ordering closed
 
Received on this week. Backspace take badly pressings.

EDIT: And too tight, but thank you! :D

stefanmohl 2014-04-10 23:21
Re: Producing Qwerty OtherHalf --order counter: 75/75 --ordering closed
 
I can hardly wait! Unfortunately, I am late in the line :-)

Kotka 2014-04-11 10:06
Re: Producing Qwerty OtherHalf --order counter: 75/75 --ordering closed
 
After Sailfish update, keyboard works perfecly.

Anything info, when keyboard works on Android apps?

kimmoli 2014-04-11 10:07
Re: Producing Qwerty OtherHalf --order counter: 75/75 --ordering closed
 
Yep...

the uinput - ? - questionmark issue is fixed in 1.0.5.16 Paarlampi

Uitto 2014-04-12 08:28
Re: Producing Qwerty OtherHalf --order counter: 75/75 --ordering closed
 
Am I doing something wrong or what is this?

I have now service running, but have no input from keyboard to programs.

It says that " tca8424: failed to request input report" Is there something wrong, did I miss something?


Code:
[root@Jolla nemo]# systemctl start tohkbd.service
[root@Jolla nemo]# systemctl status tohkbd.service
tohkbd.service - The Other Half QWERTY Keyboard
          Loaded: loaded (/etc/systemd/system/tohkbd.service; disabled)
          Active: active (running) since Sat, 12 Apr 2014 11:25:34 +0300; 11s ago
        Main PID: 4281 (tohkbd)
          CGroup: name=systemd:/system/tohkbd.service
                  └ 4281 /usr/sbin/tohkbd

Apr 12 11:25:34 Jolla tohkbd[4281]: Starting tohkbd daemon. V0.1-29 build M...31
Apr 12 11:25:34 Jolla tohkbd[4281]: Connected to D-Bus systembus
Apr 12 11:25:34 Jolla tohkbd[4281]: VDD control request - turn on
Apr 12 11:25:34 Jolla tohkbd[4281]: VDD control OK
Apr 12 11:25:34 Jolla tohkbd[4281]: Interrupt control request - turn on
Apr 12 11:25:34 Jolla tohkbd[4281]: tca8424: failed to reset
Apr 12 11:25:34 Jolla tohkbd[4281]: worker started
Apr 12 11:25:34 Jolla tohkbd[4281]: tca8424: failed to request input report

kimmoli 2014-04-12 08:45
Re: Producing Qwerty OtherHalf --order counter: 75/75 --ordering closed
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Uitto (Post 1421042)
Am I doing something wrong or what is this?
Propably not..

Quote:
Originally Posted by Uitto (Post 1421042)
It says that " tca8424: failed to request input report" Is there something wrong, did I miss something?
Seems that it can't communicate with the keyboard over I2C.

You could use I2C tool (https://github.com/kimmoli/i2ctool/b...-1.armv7hl.rpm) to check is there something wrong.
(see also here http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=92329)

First stop and disable tohkbd.service

download, install i2ctool package, start that app, turn vdd on, run probe.
the address 3B should be green'ish, (propably 50...57 blue if the microswitch is pressed), and all others yellow.

If 3B is yellow, then there is no comms. Might be caused that the tohkbd is not full in place, or the flex-cable is damaged? dirkvl will then provide support for this.

(Turn vdd OFF before closing i2ctool app)

If addres 3B was green.. then this needs more debugging...

Uitto 2014-04-12 09:15
Re: Producing Qwerty OtherHalf --order counter: 75/75 --ordering closed
 
Amazaingly fast reply! Thank you!

Quote:
Originally Posted by kimmoli (Post 1421045)
If 3B is yellow, then there is no comms. Might be caused that the tohkbd is not full in place, or the flex-cable is damaged? dirkvl will then provide support for this.
This seems to be the case. I'll take a look about pins, maybe they aren't touching.

Ps. It seems that those pins in keyboard are about 1mm too "up". So pins won't connect.

dirkvl 2014-04-12 09:29
Re: Producing Qwerty OtherHalf --order counter: 75/75 --ordering closed
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Uitto (Post 1421051)
Amazaingly fast reply! Thank you!



This seems to be the case. I'll take a look about pins, maybe they aren't touching.

Ps. It seems that those pins in keyboard are about 1mm too "up". So pins won't connect.
okay, that is weird, i tested them all before they left here..

do you have a voltage meter? if you open the keyboard up and turn it around, there should be 3x 1.76 volt and 1x 3.3v on the connector. display has to be on and tohkbd.service running. inside of usb port is a practical ground.

mdengler 2014-04-12 10:15
Re: Producing Qwerty OtherHalf --order counter: 75/75 --ordering closed
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by dirkvl (Post 1419626)
exams on monday and tuesday
Good luck!

Uitto 2014-04-12 10:54
Re: Producing Qwerty OtherHalf --order counter: 75/75 --ordering closed
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by dirkvl (Post 1421052)
okay, that is weird, i tested them all before they left here..
Like you said maybe your phone is is damaged from fitting faulty TOH's :)

I managed to get this working by removing that PCB and moving it a bit. It was really close, but i think that phones pins were just over the PCB's connections.

Now I just have to think how to glue that PCB back so that it wont move :)

dirkvl 2014-04-12 11:13
Re: Producing Qwerty OtherHalf --order counter: 75/75 --ordering closed
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Uitto (Post 1421063)
Like you said maybe your phone is is damaged from fitting faulty TOH's :)

I managed to get this working by removing that PCB and moving it a bit. It was really close, but i think that phones pins were just over the PCB's connections.

Now I just have to think how to glue that PCB back so that it wont move :)
okay, nice that you got it working :)

been in contact with jolla if they maybe have a new/spare backside laying around. small chance, but you never know!

dirkvl 2014-04-14 12:12
Re: Producing Qwerty OtherHalf --order counter: 75/75 --ordering closed
 
picture of my desk to show i haven't forgot about you guys! ;)

http://oi57.tinypic.com/j9c0fa.jpg

these will go on the mail tomorrow, so should be arriving end of the week

Kotka 2014-04-15 06:49
Re: Producing Qwerty OtherHalf --order counter: 75/75 --ordering closed
 
My keyboard stopped responding. No caps lock light or anything. Nothing on 3B-port.

I can get get it working sometimes in half-opened, so maybe it is cable or cable-connectors, which is broken. What I should do now?

dirkvl 2014-04-15 09:07
Re: Producing Qwerty OtherHalf --order counter: 75/75 --ordering closed
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kotka (Post 1421437)
My keyboard stopped responding. No caps lock light or anything. Nothing on 3B-port.

I can get get it working sometimes in half-opened, so maybe it is cable or cable-connectors, which is broken. What I should do now?
yes, the cable has kind of a limited life.. you can check whether you have 3x1.6v and 1x3.3v on the back connector (screen on, you can take inside of usb-port as ground)

i am running low on spare parts, so you can send it back, but it might take a while

Kotka 2014-04-15 10:10
Re: Producing Qwerty OtherHalf --order counter: 75/75 --ordering closed
 
Yes, it is cable, broken inside.

I would need only new cable, I can switch it myself. Otherwise I ordered myself, but deliver cost about 20€ for 3€ cable...

dirkvl 2014-04-15 15:13
Re: Producing Qwerty OtherHalf --order counter: 75/75 --ordering closed
 
Michael, Kamen, Heikki, Tomas, Soesman (2x), Michalko, Teppo, Walter, Peter -> on the mail!

Heik 2014-04-15 15:21
Re: Producing Qwerty OtherHalf --order counter: 75/75 --ordering closed
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by dirkvl (Post 1421477)
Michael, Kamen, Heikki, Tomas, Soesman (2x), Michalko, Teppo, Walter, Peter -> on the mail!
If not many Heikki's there, I will get one soon :-)

dirkvl 2014-04-15 15:30
Re: Producing Qwerty OtherHalf --order counter: 75/75 --ordering closed
 
can tomas m pleas pm me his address.... i highly doubt that if i put "tomas, finland" on the envelop it will be delivered at the right house...

stefanmohl 2014-04-15 19:02
Re: Producing Qwerty OtherHalf --order counter: 75/75 --ordering closed
 
What is your delivery count right now, Dirkvl? Just so I can estimate how long I have left to wait! :-)

dirkvl 2014-04-15 20:01
Re: Producing Qwerty OtherHalf --order counter: 75/75 --ordering closed
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by stefanmohl (Post 1421516)
What is your delivery count right now, Dirkvl? Just so I can estimate how long I have left to wait! :-)
34 down, 42 to go!

must say its a lot more work than i anticipated ;)

meShell 2014-04-16 15:31
Re: Producing Qwerty OtherHalf --order counter: 75/75 --ordering closed
 
From time to time when I try to use the keyboartd, it is not responding anymore, I will try to get status next time it is not working again and ty to restart the service to track it down.





This I got today when keyboard is slide out and I check the status from terminal:

Code:
tohkbd.service - The Other Half QWERTY Keyboard
          Loaded: loaded (/etc/systemd/system/tohkbd.service; disabled)
          Active: active (running) since Fri, 11 Apr 2014 19:58:01 +0200; 4 days ago
        Main PID: 1852 (tohkbd)
          CGroup: name=systemd:/system/tohkbd.service
                  â~T~T 1852 /usr/sbin/tohkbd

Apr 16 11:50:37 Jolla tohkbd[1852]: UNK Input report: * Unknown 0b00ee0000 ...00
Apr 16 11:50:37 Jolla tohkbd[1852]: UNK Input report: * Unknown 0b00ee0000 ...00
Apr 16 11:50:37 Jolla tohkbd[1852]: UNK Input report: * Unknown 0b00ee0000 ...00
Apr 16 11:50:37 Jolla tohkbd[1852]: UNK Input report: * Unknown 0b00ee0000 ...00
Apr 16 11:50:37 Jolla tohkbd[1852]: UNK Input report: * Unknown 0b00ee0000 ...00
Apr 16 11:50:37 Jolla tohkbd[1852]: UNK Input report: * Unknown 0b00ee0000 ...00
Apr 16 11:50:37 Jolla tohkbd[1852]: UNK Input report: * Unknown 0b00ee0000 ...00
Apr 16 11:50:37 Jolla tohkbd[1852]: UNK Input report: * Unknown 0b00ee0000 ...00
Apr 16 11:50:37 Jolla tohkbd[1852]: UNK Input report: * Unknown 0b00ee0000 ...00
Apr 16 11:50:37 Jolla tohkbd[1852]: UNK Input report: * Unknown 0b00ee0000 ...00
tohkbd.service - The Other Half QWERTY Keyboard
          Loaded: loaded (/etc/systemd/system/tohkbd.service; disabled)
          Active: active (running) since Fri, 11 Apr 2014 19:58:01 +0200; 4 days ago
        Main PID: 1852 (tohkbd)
          CGroup: name=systemd:/system/tohkbd.service
                  â~T~T 1852 /usr/sbin/tohkbd

Apr 16 15:50:09 Jolla tohkbd[1852]: tca8424: failed to request input report
Apr 16 15:50:09 Jolla tohkbd[1852]: tca8424: failed to request input report
Apr 16 15:50:09 Jolla tohkbd[1852]: tca8424: failed to request input report
Apr 16 16:00:38 Jolla tohkbd[1852]: UNK Input report: * Unknown 0b00ee0000 ...00
Apr 16 16:00:39 Jolla tohkbd[1852]: UNK Input report: * Unknown 0b00ee0000 ...00
Apr 16 16:00:39 Jolla tohkbd[1852]: UNK Input report: * Unknown 0b00ee0000 ...00
Apr 16 16:00:39 Jolla tohkbd[1852]: UNK Input report: * Unknown 0b00ee0000 ...00
Apr 16 16:00:39 Jolla tohkbd[1852]: UNK Input report: * Unknown 0b00ee0000 ...00
Apr 16 16:00:39 Jolla tohkbd[1852]: UNK Input report: * Unknown 0b00ee0000 ...00
Warning: Journal has been rotated since unit was started. Log output is incomplete or unavailable.

This is from right now using ssh, keabord is not slide out, screen lock:

Code:
[root@Jolla nemo]# systemctl status tohkbd.service
tohkbd.service - The Other Half QWERTY Keyboard
          Loaded: loaded (/etc/systemd/system/tohkbd.service; disabled)
          Active: active (running) since Fri, 11 Apr 2014 19:58:01 +0200; 4 days ago
        Main PID: 1852 (tohkbd)
          CGroup: name=systemd:/system/tohkbd.service
                  â 1852 /usr/sbin/tohkbd

Apr 16 17:28:07 Jolla tohkbd[1852]: enabling tohkbd
Apr 16 17:28:07 Jolla tohkbd[1852]: VDD control request - turn on
Apr 16 17:28:07 Jolla tohkbd[1852]: VDD control OK
Apr 16 17:28:07 Jolla tohkbd[1852]: Interrupt control request - turn on
Apr 16 17:28:07 Jolla tohkbd[1852]: worker started
Apr 16 17:28:13 Jolla tohkbd[1852]: Display status changed to "off"
Apr 16 17:28:13 Jolla tohkbd[1852]: disabling tohkbd
Apr 16 17:28:13 Jolla tohkbd[1852]: Interrupt control request - turn off
Apr 16 17:28:15 Jolla tohkbd[1852]: VDD control request - turn off
Apr 16 17:28:15 Jolla tohkbd[1852]: VDD control OK
Then I slide out the keybord, rotate a bit, screen unlocked, via ssh check status, keyboard working, interestingly capslock is switched right now, it types low caps when led is on and caps when off, restartet service, all was OK again..

dirkvl 2014-04-17 16:01
Re: Producing Qwerty OtherHalf --order counter: 75/75 --ordering closed
 
another productive day! 30 pcb's soldered and tested!

http://oi61.tinypic.com/2a7fkg3.jpg

kimmoli 2014-04-17 19:57
Re: Producing Qwerty OtherHalf --order counter: 75/75 --ordering closed
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by meShell (Post 1421605)

This I got today when keyboard is slide out and I check the status from terminal:
Apr 16 11:50:37 Jolla tohkbd[1852]: UNK Input report: * Unknown 0b00ee0000 ...00
Hmm
Looks like it is getting interrupt all the time. Report type EE is not defined afaik.
it can be mechanical issue too, maybe the chip doesn't get stable power, and keeps reseting.. (?)

Quote:
Originally Posted by meShell (Post 1421605)

This is from right now using ssh, keabord is not slide out, screen lock:

Apr 16 17:28:15 Jolla tohkbd[1852]: VDD control request - turn off
Keyboard is powered down when screen is off.

Quote:
Originally Posted by meShell (Post 1421605)

Then I slide out the keybord, rotate a bit, screen unlocked, via ssh check status, keyboard working, interestingly capslock is switched right now, it types low caps when led is on and caps when off, restartet service, all was OK again..
There is a bug in caps-lock handling, it might get reversed --> https://github.com/kimmoli/tohkbd/issues/17

meShell 2014-04-19 08:11
Re: Producing Qwerty OtherHalf --order counter: 75/75 --ordering closed
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by kimmoli (Post 1421743)
Hmm
...
Thank you very much for the explanation! I will try to find out more.

dirkvl 2014-04-20 12:29
Re: Producing Qwerty OtherHalf --order counter: 75/75 --ordering closed
 
http://oi60.tinypic.com/dcswi9.jpg

will go on the mail monday

apfibox 2014-04-20 17:54
Producing Qwerty OtherHalf - next 100 batch?
 
Any change for producing another 100 batch? I missed the first Jollakb boat and I'm pretty sure I'm not alone!


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