Re: Jolla tracking numbers
 

...and they wonder why there is a sense people don't hear? ;)

Re: Jolla tracking numbers
 

Today is exactly one week since my order status turned in to "In Picking" (order #200000419).Still no sign of any tracking number from Jolla or FedEx - complete silence...:(

Re: Jolla tracking numbers
 

Yes, and Jolla's people are not seers. If they had known in time, they could have averted or lessened the problems.

I'm pretty sure that they would have told this if they had known and figured it out at that time.

Re: Jolla tracking numbers
 

This is my first experience with FedEx. I hope it'll be my last. While it didn't even take them one day to get the phone from Finland to Austria, they are absolutely unable to deliver from Vienna to Vienna. They refused to leave it at my neighbors' as I asked them to yesterday ("personal delivery required, cannot trust neighbors") but left it with complete strangers today who I don't even know and who are not home. FedEx didn't even bother to call me about it, I only found out when I called their customer service. I never thought anything could beat DHL, but FedEx does. ;)

Re: Jolla tracking numbers
 

But they did see there was a delay beforehand, they just hoped it would go away. Cybette told us as much, that they didn't want to alarm people. I think they should have alarmed, openness is always the best when it is timely. Had they communicated then and there, when the issues started looming, or communicated like their CEO now does that DNA channel may just be faster for them, people would have had more information to make educated choices or at least more educated guesses.

That's the great part of openness. You don't have to know everything for the recipient, you involve the recipient in the process and let them make decisions with that information. In return, the recipient feels more involved in the process.

What is important to understand here that Jolla's audience at this point isn't the generic public. We are talking about quite knowledgeable people for most part. Giving them info is not the same situation as giving same to the average Joe.

A sense of community, you know.

Re: Jolla tracking numbers
 

Honestly ... All of this is a joke . I am very very disappointed with Jolla.
No communication. No planning. No customer service. No phone.
#200003130 in PAID since November 28 (when I PAID) and I got the email to access the web shop on the 27th ! 0 EUR order in May!

Rome, IT

Re: Jolla tracking numbers
 

Do not make me fear, package should arrive tomorrow at my old address (which jolla should have change but didn't). Calling Fedex this morning and they will anyway deliver to that address and only if i'm not at this address and so failed to deliver they accept to change address delivery ... ... ...

Re: Jolla tracking numbers
 

Yes, your story is unfortunately a good summary: not respecting the pre-order priority (a May order not yet shipped, think of it) and then no communication. Not a good combo.

If it helps at all, some of us do sympathize and feel your frustration. Unfortunately some feel you are whining.

I'm hopeful you get your In Picking and it ships still this week, though.

Re: Jolla tracking numbers
 

I guess that there are some people here who are actually misunderstanding ... Being enthusiast about a new company like Jolla, loving Linux and so on is actually a GOOD thing.

BUT

This is still business (or at least it should be) , whereas the feeling is like we're dealing with a bunch of amateurs.
A copy and paste email from the saying basically "ok we screwed up and we're sorry about that" is UNACCEPTABLE.
They could at least had done something like giving another TOH for free or something like that ...
:mad:

Re: Jolla tracking numbers
 

I think we should not ask free stuff of Jolla, they are startup and we can understand that part. I think most of us do want to support Jolla.

But asking for information and, originally, to respect the pre-order priority - basically to return our respect for them - wouldn't be too much to ask in my opinion.

Re: Jolla tracking numbers
 

Yes correct. At least an official word on the issue. And not just copy and paste FAQ

Re: Jolla tracking numbers
 

Well I would take it as a good sign that people are so passionate about getting their Jolla phone. I will not lie I am quite annoyed and slowly losing my mind checking the order page and the spreadsheet but my 3 weeks is still not up so I can't complain.

Once 3 weeks have passed then I will complain

Re: Jolla tracking numbers
 

There is also our disagreement. I don't believe that any form of additional communication to what they have done so far (with the exception that they should have admitted the problems before the situation heated too much) would have made any real difference.

People I have spoke with cared more about the delivery than sweet comms. There is clearly much to improve in process, in communications too, but at this moment the communication it's not the burning issue. Getting those devices delivered is.

Most pre-orderers chose their type of delivery before the problems arose and escalated to current extent. Changing them afterwards would have made already burdensome mess even more burdensome and confusing.

In that case, please answer this question: how would it have contributed to the actual delivery process when it would have taken more time off doing those deliveries?

As far as I'm concerned, their workers have devoted some time to actually speak with the community. Most companies don't do that at all. For me, instead of having reports of delivery progress (ie. how many devices are still waiting), it's much more important to know they are doing their best to get those devices delivered, and that they are doing their best to fix bugs and bring software updates, communicating workarounds etc. with community. And of course, I hope there will be reasonable bugtracker too. This is the part where communicating with community can actually contribute something useful. Discussing details about delivery problems and progress is not.

Re: Jolla tracking numbers
 

Hmmm ironically "I am first one" LE ( still don;t get waht is so limited in theme, ringtone and colour) is not included in packages anymore, instead we have note that it would be send latter ( no dates? )

They ignored my question on twitter, anyone has any info on that?
Did they want to change it to "i was almost first one" or "i love to wait" ?

Re: Jolla tracking numbers
 

Please.

We do sympathize and feel for both of your frustration. It's not about that. You have misunderstood.

Re: Jolla tracking numbers
 

It 's really strange, it's like you were blocked. From Monday, just picking up the 3000, and oddly enough they are almost all Finns. To me they have a few phones and many, including myself, unfortunately, will receive the phone after Christmas.

Re: Jolla tracking numbers
 

I didn't mean you.

Re: Jolla tracking numbers
 

Everybody has the right to feel frustrated (I also felt a bit like that during the past weeks, but luckiy I got my "In picking" notification today), and everybody has the right to express his/her disappointment. Sometimes, somebody has gone a little bit "over the top", over-reacted, or call it like you want. IMHO, obviously.

And apart from that, we started from a fair (even if sometimes harsh) discussion, but we ended with a mere reiteration of the same concepts, over and over and over, without bringing the discussion really any further. That's when all the thing became annoying whining to me. Again, IMHO.

Premnas, I can totally feel your frustration (da compatriota ancora di più). I had the luck to go "in picking" around the moment I expected to (after making my calculations from this thread and the spreadsheet), you didn't.

Re: Jolla tracking numbers
 

I get that. I disagree to an extreme extent. I think more communications would have made a dramatic difference for the better for Jolla and the community.

Sure, like I've said many times, had Jolla delivered the phones promptly, there would have been no need for further communication on it. My suggestion wasn't to make running commentary on everything Jolla does, but at critical moments understand about the benefits of openness. When the delays started rearing their heads, that was the moment when better communications would have - in my opinion - helped immensely.

Sure, I get that. But I didn't suggest making people change their order type. I meant being open early on and giving people information to help them choose. Jolla's CEO just made it sound like delivering the phones to DNA was much easier for them, why didn't they tell us of that beforehand? Give people information that helps them make more informed choices.

I argue it would NOT have taken any more time off from doing those delivers. Handing out information would be done by different people than are actually fulfilling the deliveries.

In fact, I actually think giving out more timely information, more openly would have meant Jolla had to answer less tweets, less care emails etc. and would have actually saved Jolla time. Pre-emptive, timely communications can help a lot.

You have very low expectations what "community based" means. You are entitled to your opinion, of course. I expected better from Jolla, I actually thought they'd be unlike. And I'm not trying to be smart*** about it, I sincerely thought Jolla's community attitude was much more open than this process has proven it to be.

I did NOT expect this from Jolla. The delays? Sure, problems happen at startups. The closedness, the silence, the evasive PR platitudes? No way I saw it coming. Very disappointing.

Well, to me at least this process has shown Jolla tried to be like most other companies. Not unlike.

Without information it is very hard to know they are doing anything at all. Silence makes things faith based. You know, many people thought Jolla was going to deliver before the DNA sales while they already knew on the background they would no way make it. This means we can't trust the silence. (In this particular case, my feeling is that we can, though, expect most to get their Jollas shipping by Christmas - so at least that part to me seems optimistic.)

I disagree. Read this thread. There are dozens and dozens of pages of people sharing info about order tracking progress that they had to build up themselves, because Jolla chose not to share anything about the process. A lot of that effort could have been alleviated with more openness.

Not to mention the emotional part. This treatment certainly doesn't make it seem like Jolla wants to share in a movement with people. It seems more like they want blind followers. Now, I'm sure that is not a fair perception, but I'm just saying that's what the silence is saying to me - and I doubt I'm completely alone in that perception.

I know others feel differently and that's fine. This is a Jolla order tracking thread, not in any way majorly important for our or Jolla's future, so let's not make it any bigger than it is. But as my feedback, I think Jolla could have improved a lot - and I do think they would be wise to open up more.

And saying people just can't be satisfied isn't the best line to start with, no matter how potentially misunderstood.

Re: Jolla tracking numbers
 

I can understand your frustration, I actually think it is similarly frustrating to read messages like yours in response time and time again. Wouldn't it be nicer if everyone just shared my opinion? ;)

New people joined in, in the latest instance JulmaHerra. I think it is perfectly natural that new people joining in means repeating some of that conversation, because they bring those topics back.

Discussion is hard, and sometimes frustrating and repetitive. Life.

Re: Jolla tracking numbers
 

a company of not even 100 employees takes the risk of making the best phone in history, and all I read here is whining about a few weeks delay.

Yes, I'm affected by their shipping problems too. Yes, I'm going on holidays after christmas and maybe won't get my phone this year, although I preordered and paid the first hour it was possible.

But honestly, I've been awaiting my Jolla since their very first tweet. I'll calm the little girl in me and keep waiting, knowing that it will arrive eventually. 3 weeks more or less don't make that much of a difference.

To all Jolla Sailors reading this: we love you and admire you for your braveness. I really hope you guys have a gigantic new year's party and keep on rocking.

Re: Jolla tracking numbers
 

I just think that when a discussion escalates to a certain point where it actually doesn't go any further, it becomes trench warfare, and it would be better to just let it go. That's why I tend to avoid these situations (not this time apparently :D ).

Re: Jolla tracking numbers
 

Then you are reading very selectively. There is much more than whining in this thread. :) I'm happy for you, that you feel good about Jolla. There is room for many opinions and views.

Just know that some people are not "whining about a few weeks delay". Maybe some are. Others are discussing.

Some of us are discussing feedback on how to handle a process like this with the community and get the best results with the widest possible range of people. There is disagreement, some think Jolla is doing great, others think they are not, but at the core is still a discussion for the benefit of Jolla, from various angles.

Blind fanboyism never helped anyone - not talking about you, just about the general concept. Jolla will be better because of good discourse with the community, not if we keep cheering on as they roll over the edge of the ravine.

Re: Jolla tracking numbers
 

There is truth to that, sure. It all comes down to where to draw the line - for example, when new people join in, it may be fruitful to at least share ideas with a new participant that might bring something new to the discussion. Looping the same convo with the same people is not fruitful of course.

Re: Jolla tracking numbers
 

Unfortunately I have seen this film before (some experience on this). Normally the most knowledgeable people of the case/problem are the people actually being busy of doing it. When they start communicating with "PR" people that time is away from the work. And when you get the "PR" people to actually write the message and doing the communication to outside you get the messages people here is complaining (general message for all, cut'n'paste, ...).

That doesn't mean that I disagree with you here but what I'm saying is that it's not easy and it causes other problems.

Re: Jolla tracking numbers
 

Sure, communications are hard.

Anyway, just to re-iterate my position:

The worst thing they could do is put PR people on the case. I think a big part of the problem so far is that they've tried to handle the situation like a big company PR machine would. In my opinion completely the wrong way for a company like Jolla.

No, not PR people. Put an entrepreneur on the case or similar headhoncho. Someone who knows, but in reality isn't picking orders all day long (and even if they were, them taking 10 minutes for an update every other day in reality doesn't slow anything down). Someone who can say more than just platitudes.

Be honest, be open enough - and most importantly, do so in time, not when it is already too late.

Re: Jolla tracking numbers
 

One more thought:

Jolla needs their own Xbox Major Nelson, but someone who addresses the community even on a lower level, because Jolla is a small start-up and self-proclaimed Unlike. Someone who addresses these kinds of situations.

I always thought Dillon was that type of character, I thought Cybette had a similar role here, but in this process clearly Jolla decided to silence any actual information being handed out on the process. I must say I am actually very surprised to see Jolla's approach turned out this way. Not Unlike, very Unexpected to me.

Who here really believes e.g. Dillon or, say, Jolla CEO doesn't know exactly the status of the shipping process every day during this important first period in their company? I'm sure they know plenty.

They could blog about it every other day, they could tweet about it or whatever. I'm sure they have the info. They just choose not to.

Re: Jolla tracking numbers
 

2659 is shipped!

http://files.sharenator.com/Kip_Yess...x270-61824.gif

was is picking yesterday!

Re: Jolla tracking numbers
 

bonus gif for everyone that is crying in this thread

http://theawkblock.files.wordpress.c...vb9ro1_500.gif

Re: Jolla tracking numbers
 

It arrives tomorrow! Now I will drink a lot of beer.

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-oYp9egMdW5...r-face-GIF.gif

Re: Jolla tracking numbers
 

If you want to express feelings with GIFs, I believe this one speaks for everyone in the thread:

http://i.imgur.com/6cfyOZt.gif

:p

Re: Jolla tracking numbers
 

Same case for me....#3142 and NOTHING. It seems like they only sent to finnish second-wave orders....

Re: Jolla tracking numbers
 

Shipped! Yeah! So close but still so far, the logistical center where the packet is being handled is roughly about 3km from here. And when it goes to my nearest post office, the truck will drive about 100 meters from my frontdoor just to go few kilometers to the other way :D

Re: Jolla tracking numbers
 

I still don't get the point in this thread. Jolla promised to ship within 4 weeks. I don't know a single person who has been waiting longer than 4 weeks. Mine was delivered yesterday (in Germany). Unfortunately, I won't have it in my hands before friday since I'm traveling this week :(

Re: Jolla tracking numbers
 

I share most of your opinion. But there is something that I cannot accept: that someone running around in Helsinki can buy complete spontaneously the Jolla if he wants. And we, that follow it since the beginning and payed blindly, are left behind without information. That is not acceptable.

Re: Jolla tracking numbers
 

Or created an enormous panic reaction in community. If they had managed to solve the problems as they believed when DNA's launch was postponed, there would be no problem - except if they actually communicated that out too early. In perfect world people are understanding, forgiving and never misunderstand each other. In real world... it's more wretched.

At that point they should have known for sure that problems are not solvable in time. There would be no point in communicating things before they are actually known for sure. Even slightest hint of uncertainty regarding deliveries creates huge backlash, no matter how you try to communicate them. That's why they are communicated only when other means are exhausted. We have seen it before, they have communicated things in open manner and it causes problems when something unexpected happens that forces them to make changes and communicate that out. Such changes result in disappointment, frustration and boatload of questions. So, it's fine line between being too silent and being too open.

Yes, in companies that actually have a PR department. Unfortunately PR-departments don't necessarily have all the information about real situations and as far as I have understood, it's one of the most despised things here.

I have to admit I admire your optimism. However, more communications usually spur more communications, more information spurs more questions so I doubt it would have made any difference in that regard.

No amount of communications change the faith aspect of things. Only delivered devices, software updates and such things do. Of course communications may increase or reduce that faith - or even both at the same time. The hard part is to know which reaction will be dominant in each situation.

Um... how do you think they do that without losing any time when even tracking codes and shipping status information in shop lags behind schedule to help increase throughput?

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time to buy this:

Attachment 34081

Re: Jolla tracking numbers
 

...and not only that, Jolla didn't respect the pre-order order they promised to (not for webshop invites nor for actual shippings), so people who ordered their phones in September got them earlier while people who ordered in May didn't - even though they paid promptly.

So, the process really went wrong and good timely information would have helped to alleviate that.

Anyway, now it is more about lessons learned, most people will get their Jollas soon and the rest after Christmas - I have enough faith to believe that. :)

Re: Jolla tracking numbers
 

Well. I guess Jolla just wants a small piece of the Christmas cake as well:)
I'm not in Helsiniki, so I just don't care much if people can buy it there or not.
On the other hand, I totally understand it's quite a big deal for a 100-people company like Jolla to ship such a huge bunch of devices to seperate addresses, while it's far more easy to just hand over a complete stock to DNA who can easily distribute the devices through their already existing infrastructure. You should rather blame the network providers in your country for not distributing Jolla instead of blaming Jolla for beeing a total newbie in this market.

Re: Jolla tracking numbers
 

I do not get it. Which is the difficult thing in it? Just print 4000 different address stickers. And do a little of paperwork for the devices going to Norway and Switzerland.