Re: Sailfish now on 1.0 (Jolla MWC announcement)
 

hehe updated

Re: Sailfish now on 1.0 (Jolla MWC announcement)
 

I actually like some of your suggestions. Ignoring my silly previous post, it might be good to make a list and then create a pole to see how folks might rank or prioritize improvements. It would be interesting to see what comes out at or near the top. But I must say, as I expect my jolla phone to arrive in a few weeks I'm getting a bit nervous about being disappointed. I hope that is not the case and that this is simply a case of growing pains to get to where you want be functionality wise.

Re: Sailfish now on 1.0 (Jolla MWC announcement)
 

Full proxy support? What do you need?

The rest of the list I need too.

Re: Sailfish now on 1.0 (Jolla MWC announcement)
 

There's 39 questions tagged as mar14 at together.jolla.com

https://together.jolla.com/questions...:mar14/page:1/

None of them particularly useful IMHO. Notably absent, the 1st and 2nd most voted on unresolved questions - offline maps and CalDAV.

Re: Sailfish now on 1.0 (Jolla MWC announcement)
 

Did you even ever try to set the proxy in network settings ?
You can, but it doesnt work ...

Also , I would like to use my tor package :P without nasty tricks

Re: Sailfish now on 1.0 (Jolla MWC announcement)
 

No I have not. I dont mean IT in a bad way. What are you trying to achive? IT must be Done on the Phone?

Re: Sailfish now on 1.0 (Jolla MWC announcement)
 

Yes, on the phone.
A proxy is useful for many purposes, one is traffic filtering, another, anonymous surfing (like tor)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proxy_server

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tor_%28...ity_network%29

Re: Sailfish now on 1.0 (Jolla MWC announcement)
 

It must be pointed out to them that they've consistently claimed they're: "listening & prioritising based on feedback" (paraphrased ofc).
Admittedly I haven't carefully screened all 39 Qns, I just hope expectation management & messaging hasn't been lacking again, & that they're not saying one thing & doing almost the opposite.

Re: Sailfish now on 1.0 (Jolla MWC announcement)
 

Why are people expecting off line maps? Have these been promised?

Re: Sailfish now on 1.0 (Jolla MWC announcement)
 

Funny thing is even on N900 most of the beautiful things on the list were not out of the box, reverse engineering wlan driver to allow injection (and monitor mode?), USB host mode were all done by members of community. Since Jolla uses Android drivers not holding my breath though, injection/monitor mode thread on XDA died long ago

edit: hmm, does anyone know of Android device that is capable of injection? Asking Jolla to put a little bit of effort in porting Sailfish to it wouldn't hurt (they claimed it can be done in 24hrs in many cases)

Re: Sailfish now on 1.0 (Jolla MWC announcement)
 

No concrete promises as such, just a highly derisible feature.
And understandably so, it's often very handy/useful...

Re: Sailfish now on 1.0 (Jolla MWC announcement)
 

Yeah more often than not we'll have to forget about the cool lower level stuff that used to be doable on Maemo/MeeGo.
It was the price we paid in order to get driver support (i.e. Android dvr support -much of which is closed binary blobs) for relatively new hw.
But, hopefully there'll still be the odd hw component that's open right down to the dvr level...

If Nemo/Sailfish ever does take-off in a big way (wishful thinking), then we can look forward to a golden of era of openness right down to the dvr lvl.
That's assuming we can convince the big boys (e.g. Qualcomm) to play nice, if not, hopefully Intel will get more OEM's in Android & then Nemo/Cousins.*

*i.e. Tizen/FFOS/Ubuntu & MeR derivatives

Re: Sailfish now on 1.0 (Jolla MWC announcement)
 

Not that simple I am afraid.
Like you said, that thread on XDA has been inactive for a long time.
There is a small effort to improve the driver here https://github.com/KrasnikovEugene/wcn36xx unfortunately, there is a major blocker preventing monitor mode (least to say packet injection. From that work, it is clear that it is the binary firmware that needs to be patched. Which is possible, but unlikely to happen as it is closed source. https://github.com/KrasnikovEugene/wcn36xx/issues/94

So, the best, still unlikely, possibility is, that Jolla can convince Qualcom to release new binary drivers

Re: Sailfish now on 1.0 (Jolla MWC announcement)
 

Cause, about 6-7 years ago you'd be taking that for granted. But then the illuminated Steve Jobs came across...

Re: Sailfish now on 1.0 (Jolla MWC announcement)
 

I doubt anyone is expecting it for 1.0 but if Jolla are attaching any importance to the votes on together.jolla.com it must be done. Their customers have spoken. People just expect it today, especially ex-Nokia users.

I personally was expecting CalDAV support last November. A smartphone without the ability to sync data isn't very smart IMHO and I find it shocking they can release 1.0 without basic features like calendar and contact syncing.

Re: Sailfish now on 1.0 (Jolla MWC announcement)
 

Sygic GPS Navigation version 11.2.6 Android app works with offline maps on Jolla.

Re: Sailfish now on 1.0 (Jolla MWC announcement)
 

I'd prefer keeping it Android-NSA-free. Native stuff would be very appreciated.

Re: Sailfish now on 1.0 (Jolla MWC announcement)
 

If I have to install android apps, I'd better get motorola X for half of Jolla's price, or keep N9

Re: Sailfish now on 1.0 (Jolla MWC announcement)
 

Hmm. Given that back on November 13th last year Jolla trumpeted "Jolla smartphones equipped with HERE capabilities", that they would "provide users with up-to-date map data and rich location information", that such capabilities "are essential for any mobile maps experience", that they bring "Jolla one step closer to achieving a fully equipped mobile operating system.", that "the mapping asset is an integral part of Jolla’s complete user experience." and that Jolla intended to "deliver the optimal mobile maps experience to our customers" it seems pretty damning that we have to look at 3rd party mapping applications if we want a proper mapping experience.

And given that Appello, who provide the native Maps app, are the authors of Wisepilot, one wonders why it wasn't possible to provide a proper navigation app.

Re: Sailfish now on 1.0 (Jolla MWC announcement)
 

IRQ? Why do you need IRQ?

Re: Sailfish now on 1.0 (Jolla MWC announcement)
 

Cost of offline HERE license would be my guess.

Re: Sailfish now on 1.0 (Jolla MWC announcement)
 

LOL I dont
Also , I dont need ICQ ;)

Re: Sailfish now on 1.0 (Jolla MWC announcement)
 

IIRC, my old SGS2 used to be capable of doing this primarily because it used the same wlan chip as the N900...

Re: Sailfish now on 1.0 (Jolla MWC announcement)
 

Which a) wouldn't affect the ability to work with the online maps and b) I'd be happy to pay for a native implementation

Re: Sailfish now on 1.0 (Jolla MWC announcement)
 

I'd pay for native offline navigation feature too. However, couple of things are needed to make it happen:

- Those features have to be developed by Appello, which costs money (also Nokia might want some extra €€ for such feats)
- Jolla has to have some infrastructure to actually support payments from inside apps/Jolla Store

It might be that those features are already under development, but not on the next release. I do hope they will become available before the summer though...

Re: Sailfish now on 1.0 (Jolla MWC announcement)
 

Development effort and cost needed to support offline maps is not significant. License cost however has significant difference and offering it as separately payed option would increase license cost per device even more.

Currently this whole HERE deal is bad. Go to Harbour and read the terms and you will find all the things Nokia has denied Jolla can't do and neither can any application available from official application store.

Re: Sailfish now on 1.0 (Jolla MWC announcement)
 

I have read the terms and I don't see anything there that would prevent offline maps or navigation features. Most restrictions are for vehicle integration, which means that Here services cannot be legally used to create software that would turn the phone into vehicle control system or interface. So no robotic cars via this service.

Re: Sailfish now on 1.0 (Jolla MWC announcement)
 

I don't think there is anything particularly contentious or onerous related to the use of HERE services in the Harbour Terms and Conditions.

Re: Sailfish now on 1.0 (Jolla MWC announcement)
 

This thread has lots of interesting speculation & discussion; the maps bit was enlightening (for me, at least).

However, it's also full of the same old TMO blinkered/laser-focused wishing & ranting, i.e. "I want <obscure developer thing X> and <arcane technical thing Y>!"

If you look up from your keyboard and out at the regular phone-using public, you must surely realise how counter-productive it would be for Jolla to focus on these things at this stage to the exclusion of basic consumer functionality.

How about search in email app? How about contacts & calendar (yes this was mentioned here, but barely)?

Let them focus on that first. Openness is important, but for now our best hope is that Jolla provides support for the community to implement all these wonderful things. That's the best of both worlds: real people will actually want to use Sailfish, and the ultra-geeks can also use Sailfish on whatever hardware to do whatever grey-hat hacking things you want to do.

If Jolla can't appeal to the consumer, then they will sink without a trace and we'll be back to... what, exactly?

Exactly.

Re: Sailfish now on 1.0 (Jolla MWC announcement)
 

I don't entirely agree. At this stage Jolla is only interesting to tinkerers, hobbyst-developers and Finns, still morning for Nokia demise.

Of course, in the longer term, Jolla wants to attract regular users, but the "ecosystem" is too small at the moment, or, put it another way, many applications that regular users want are out of reach. So, listening to developers/tinkerers (their current customers) is important. Also, developers are people too, and they too need many things regular people need to make use of their phone. So in the end it is all a question of balance.

Also, consumer-level features cost money (Maps, social networks require licensing/partnership), while improving the lower levels requires the time of already hired engineers...

And with the right infrastructure in place, "consumer" level feature may be developed by third parties and tinkerers.

So given there is a finite amount of money and time available to Jolla, they will have to invest them wisely... And I think infrastructure will need to be a big part of the improvements to do from now on.

Re: Sailfish now on 1.0 (Jolla MWC announcement)
 

Thanks for your thoughtful response. I largely agree with what you're saying here, but I can't get away from my core point: if Sailfish doesn't get to a point reasonably soon where it's rock-solid stable (even on the Jolla hardware!) and capable of performing basic consumer tasks (how do you search for an e-mail in the built-in email client? please don't say "download a better client"), it will remain forever the preserve of hobbyists and mournful Finns... and that would be a shame.

It's true that the community has and will come through with amazing things, but communities need a foundation of a user base, and the user base needs basic functionality & reliability. I'm really enjoying using my Jolla, but it's incredibly frustrating to be told "Unknown app is not responding" on a regular basis. Sure, I can go and see that my swap space is full, but Joe Blow isn't going to know or care what that is.

I'm fairly sure Jolla have bigger plans, so I hope what I'm saying doesn't apply to them, but only to hardcore tinkerers/wishful thinkers who think that packet injection is more critical to the success of Sailfish than a built-in messaging/SMS functionality which doesn't freeze/crash on a regular basis.

I am eagerly looking forward to the next update, although I'm not so naïve as to think that it will solve all (or even most) of the basic usability issues. I'm still on the fence as to whether I can continue to use the Jolla as my main device: half the time when I get an incoming call the device seems to have some sort of panic attack and I'm unable to receive a phone call. That's a priority 1 issue right there. The random "flashing green/red LED & nothing works for 30 seconds" thing happens from time to time. By all accounts, other people seem to be having worse luck than me with that sort of thing, although some report few/no issues, too.

As for functionality: I don't want to have to go into the calendar app to see my upcoming tasks - I need the option to see them all the time on the lock screen; that last one seems like something the community can easily fix, but it should be there already. Why can't I search for messages? etc. etc.

Please don't misunderstand: I'm a great supporter of what Jolla are bringing to the table. I put my money where my mouth is and bought the damn thing, and if I had more free time I would love to get into app development. I still plan to.

Consider this, though: hobby devices are great, but most people only have enough money for one device. That one device needs the things I mention above. All sorts of wonderful tinkering opportunities as well? Amazing (and necessary) bonus... but it's the icing on the cake. We need the cake first.

Re: Sailfish now on 1.0 (Jolla MWC announcement)
 

Regarding maps. Online or offline. Is the current app useful for anything at all?

Re: Sailfish now on 1.0 (Jolla MWC announcement)
 

Yes. It has suited my needs quite well. Only major problem I've had with was on my holiday when the lack of offline support made it pretty useless.


EDIT: Note that I don't have a car or plan to ever become a car owner. Lack of voice navigation is a trivial problem for me.

Re: Sailfish now on 1.0 (Jolla MWC announcement)
 

I would have to agree more so with shallimus, unless you can demonstrate that a customer base of following folks:

"At this stage Jolla is only interesting to tinkerers, hobbyst-developers and Finns, still morning for Nokia demise."

can keep Jolla/Sailfish afloat...

Re: Sailfish now on 1.0 (Jolla MWC announcement)
 

It's ok at plotting a route and working out how long it takes but apart from that, for navigating it's useless. It's also useless as a simple compass since North on the map is always the top of the screen not where you're facing.

Even without adding turn-by-turn voice nav, it needs a bit of work as just a mapping app.

Re: Sailfish now on 1.0 (Jolla MWC announcement)
 

Even tinkerers, hobbyst-developers and Finns have meetings, friends and travel places. Best not do that with a Jolla though currently.

It's fine saying this in beta but for 1.0 it doesn't cut it that calendar and contact syncing is non-existent and there's no decent mapping or navigation. It's quite disappointing*.


* I'm British. For USAians, translate that into something involving your mother's fornicator.

Re: Sailfish now on 1.0 (Jolla MWC announcement)
 

How about walking around a town or cycling?

I found it pretty much useless as the route guide is just a text list and series of turn symbols that doesn't update as you walk/drive/cycle plus it takes up half the screen.

Re: Sailfish now on 1.0 (Jolla MWC announcement)
 

Sorry to digress but fortunately that is not the case!


http://www.businessinsider.com/large...america-2013-8

Re: Sailfish now on 1.0 (Jolla MWC announcement)
 

Sigh, I'm a sad panda again now, I really don't know if they can improve things "enough", soon enough.
N.B. I'm only going by other folks observations, 0 interest in getting it until they show interest in Australia, or at least the SEA/Oceania regions.

Re: Sailfish now on 1.0 (Jolla MWC announcement)
 

To digress further, I don't believe he was taking about "asians"...

Interesting skim-read though, I'd always heard/read that folks of Hispanic descent were quickly becoming the predominant ethnicity in the US.
Perhaps if you combine all the cultures/regions listed one could say that (haven't bothered), but it's clear that folks of European descent are still up there, at least going by this article.
But I mucho digresso....