Advanced text entry on Sailfish (Swype or similar)
 

TLDR: I miss Swype. Lots of people miss Swype. We need Swype on Sailfish, or something similar which is just as good. Please post on Swype forums so Swype know that we are interested! Also, we could do something other than Swype as a community... maybe.

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Moving from N9/Harmattan to Jolla/Sailfish is turning out to be a fairly pleasant experience, but with some big and obvious bumps in the road.

My single biggest issue right now is text input. Like various other people on TMO, I miss Swype terribly; after two years of Swype, going back to hunt-and-peck on a vkb is painful.

I know that Swype is covered by patent(s) and it isn't just a case of "add some dependencies and port it from somewhere".

Quite apart from the game-changing brilliance of Swype's "draw words with patterns", I also miss the convenience N9 Swype's very well thought-out implementation of "hold key down to get more options", I see that vowel-accents are available, but not numbers of quotes (double-quotes are hidden behind two screens). I suspect this could be resolved by editing keyboard layout, although I haven't had time to get to grips with that yet. A further functionality I miss from Swype on Harmattan is "tap word to see replacement suggestions". Perhaps I missed something, but this doesn't seem to be a thing in Sailfish right now.

Most of all, though: I miss the speed and accuracy of Swype. As it stands, using my Jolla even just for replying to an SMS or other short message is painfully slow and error-prone compared to my N9. I have written just a couple of short e-mail on Sailfish, but that experience makes me think maybe I should put my SIM card back in my N9.

So: this thread is intended for discussion of how we get from the current hunt-and-peck situation to having an improved/advanced text entry, either Swype or some other similarly useful method. I started a new thread since the existing Sailfish keyboard thread linked above is more about vkb layout; I think there is value in holding a separate focused discussion here.

Can we get Swype? How much would that cost, assuming licensing is a possibility, and who might pay for that? What other options are there? What appetite is there - both at Jolla and in the wider community - for a side-project to deliver Swype or an open (or even a closed!) alternative along these lines? etc.

Edit: if you want to see Swype on Sailfish, please take 2 minutes to post in the Sailfish thread at the Swype forums. No guarantees, but if we don't ask, we don't get. Thanks strongm for the pointer.

Re: Advanced text entry on Sailfish (Swype or similar)
 

write to Swype company and ask. Nobody can answer you there,

Re: Advanced text entry on Sailfish (Swype or similar)
 

While Swype have apparently already said that there's nothing in the pipeline, Jolla say they are giving it some thought.

As per my OP, I'm not just asking about Swype, but other equivalent possibilities too. Hence, even if we accept that no-one(?!) here can say anything useful about Swype itself, as I see it there is still something worth discussing here.

Re: Advanced text entry on Sailfish (Swype or similar)
 

well, maliit keyboard api is open, anybody can make own keyboard with no problems :)

Re: Advanced text entry on Sailfish (Swype or similar)
 

Well, that is indeed a great starting point! All other things being equal, open is better than closed, although there still remains the question: how do we move beyond hunt-and-peck?

I only just started giving this issue some serious thought, and as I'm at work I don't have the time to start reading anything in depth right now. Also, although I do have technical knowledge, it is mostly related to my work and not usually relevant to Sailfish (well, Unix abilities are useful in both). Over the coming days/weeks, I hope to read/discuss and understand better what our options are here. If we don't collaborate, chances are we get nothing, and that would be a shame in my opinion.

Re: Advanced text entry on Sailfish (Swype or similar)
 

hunt-and-peck what?

Re: Advanced text entry on Sailfish (Swype or similar)
 

Hunt-and-peck for L, E, T, T, E, R, S, <space>, O, F, <space>, T, H, E, <space>, A, L, P, H, A, B, E, T, <space>, A, N, D, <space>, S, Y, M, B, O, L, S, <space>, A, N, D, <space>, S, O, <space>, O, N.

Takes me at least five times longer to type such a phrase on the current Sailfish vkb compared to Swype on Harmattan, and I make more errors, which then take more effort to correct than with Swype on Harmattan. I don't accept that this is the best possible way to enter text via touchscreen on Sailfish!

Re: Advanced text entry on Sailfish (Swype or similar)
 

i dont know what "hunt-and-peck" menas, i'm not native english speaker :D
but i see it means "swype" tehnology. So, its easy to do. Hardest part is accuracy algorithm and dictionary database :)

Re: Advanced text entry on Sailfish (Swype or similar)
 

Hi. As a expectant Jolla Phone owner, I'd be interested in swype capability. I happen to come across this post. Would it be useful?

http://blog.qt.digia.com/blog/2014/0...qt-enterprise/


I currently use a Galaxy Note 3 and my ranking of speed in writing is (from greatest to lowest) Voice dictation, Pen, swype, typing.
Any thoughts on voice or writing recognition. Perhaps some linux based software exists for this too.

Re: Advanced text entry on Sailfish (Swype or similar)
 

Ah, I see. Sorry for any confusion.

"Hunt and peck" can be used to describe any sort of UI experience where the user must stare at the screen, find the desired button, then carefully tap in the right area (and repeat and repeat and repeat...)

Swype is certainly not "hunt and peck"!

I'm pretty sure that when used in an IT context, the term "hunt and peck" is based on the way that a free-range chicken eats food: scan floor for one small item of food, throw head down to floor to grab and eat it, hunt for next small piece of food, throw down head to eat it ad infininitum.

The chicken's technique does work, but it's slow and annoying and certainly not graceful! This is how current Sailfish vkb experience feels to me.

Re: Advanced text entry on Sailfish (Swype or similar)
 

Thanks! Yes, looks like that has potential, but we don't have a plugin right now. Assuming Swype doesn't happen, we'd have to write one (and not infringe any patents either?) Not trivial, I assume.

I'd be interested, for sure. I have no knowledge of this [yet]. For me this would be a complement rather than a replacement for something like Swype: I certainly don't want to be talking to my phone all the time (e.g. on public transit that would be annoying for everyone around me).

Re: Advanced text entry on Sailfish (Swype or similar)
 

I fully agree. Swyping (or swiping) itself is not big issue to implement. The algorithm is and dictionaries and when those are in place even this "hund-and-peak" - meaning pressing each key individually - technique will be fast. It will require not only text prediction but autocorrection. Best autocorrect algorithms can logically find correct work even when no character typed/swiped/swyped is correct.

Re: Advanced text entry on Sailfish (Swype or similar)
 

True, but in the face of continued pressure they have recently announced that they will monitor together.jolla.com to see just how high demand is. So I'd suggest you a) contribute to the swipe threads on together.jolla.com AND b) badger swipe. About every 10 minutes...
.

Re: Advanced text entry on Sailfish (Swype or similar)
 

Further to the above, some links:

Thread on together.jolla.com

Thread on swype forums

Re: Advanced text entry on Sailfish (Swype or similar)
 

Well yes, dictionary & algo are critical, but Harmattan Swype is still much faster than Harmattan hunt-and-peck.

As for swiping being not a big issue to implement and the algo being the big deal: yep, that seems likely. I wonder what's possible.

Re: Advanced text entry on Sailfish (Swype or similar)
 

So this is already even bigger than I thought, in that many people really, really want this, and discussions are ongoing at Swype, Jolla, Twitter and elsewhere.

However, TMO is still a great place to discuss stuff, so I think this thread still has value.

Re: Advanced text entry on Sailfish (Swype or similar)
 

I have to say that When I have to write something on Jolla Is like hard work! Not to mention long emails and passwords.
That was enjoyable with SWYPE ;)

Can't wait we'll get swypelike on our JOLLAs

Re: Advanced text entry on Sailfish (Swype or similar)
 

You mean something like this ?
(but it's not as good as the original yet)

Re: Advanced text entry on Sailfish (Swype or similar)
 

Sorry for this lame teaser.

I'd like to release this as an open source project, but at the moment i'm not comfortable with the patent issue (i'm interested in any advice on this topic)
I live in a country outside the US (and without software patents), so should i just find a code hosting service with no relation with the US ?

Maybe i am too paranoid :)

Re: Advanced text entry on Sailfish (Swype or similar)
 

everything is okay untill you not using swype name in your product :)

Re: Advanced text entry on Sailfish (Swype or similar)
 

Now I am not an expert on SW patents, but AFAIK there can be no problems whatsoever when something that is patented is released as open source / free software.

Patents are only enforceable if you are making money on the product.

Re: Advanced text entry on Sailfish (Swype or similar)
 

Very impressive! I'm eager to try it.

Re: Advanced text entry on Sailfish (Swype or similar)
 

Regarding being paranoid :) Well, I would also. As what concerns GPL/Open Source/Patents - Iam also not a lawyer, but I do see some concerns - there is a good writing on this here

https://www.fenwick.com/FenwickDocum...ent_Rights.pdf

Re: Advanced text entry on Sailfish (Swype or similar)
 

Video doesn't work on my Jolla. :-(

Re: Advanced text entry on Sailfish (Swype or similar)
 

That is a good document, but as I see it has been written from the point-of-view of an US based law firm, it holds only in the US (just as it says on the final caption, "there's no such thing as a world-wide patent")

Also, the point-of-view in the document is on the decision of commercial entity, whether to patent or to GPL a feature/program.

As long as you are not going to make money/commercialize on a product, it is always allowed to make a clean-room implementation of a program/feature. That right cannot be taken away from you.
(this means, of course, that you write it yourself from scratch or use for example GPL'ed components. No peeking in the source code of the original implementation allowed :))

Re: Advanced text entry on Sailfish (Swype or similar)
 

wow, good or not, i want it NOW :)
any infos about release or so ?




use LLs vPlayer and search for "magic keyboard for Jolla"

Re: Advanced text entry on Sailfish (Swype or similar)
 

Really stunning, indeed!

Re: Advanced text entry on Sailfish (Swype or similar)
 

I want to test it now! Looking good!

Re: Advanced text entry on Sailfish (Swype or similar)
 

Use LLs vPLAYER :)

Re: Advanced text entry on Sailfish (Swype or similar)
 

http://www.uspto.gov/ip/global/enforcement/

"The Enforcement Team's mission is to improve intellectual property protection and enforcement domestically and abroad. Since the rights granted by a U.S. patent extend only throughout the territory of the United States and have no effect in a foreign country, an inventor who wishes patent protection in other countries must apply for a patent in each of the other countries or in regional patent offices. Almost every country has its own patent law, and a person desiring a patent in a particular country must make an application for patent in that country, in accordance with the requirements of that country"

Re: Advanced text entry on Sailfish (Swype or similar)
 

http://www.uspto.gov/patents/resourc...jsp#heading-24

The grant confers “the right to exclude others from making, using, offering for sale, or selling the invention throughout the United States or importing the invention into the United States” and its territories.

You don't need to sell to violate the patent. Even making the invention or using the invention can be prohibited.

You will get into trouble if you offer your keyboard in the US (since Swype is patented in the US). I am not sure if Swype is patented elsewhere but it wouldn't be too difficult to do a quick search (my own search seems to indicate that it is only patented in the US).

In other words, you should be fine to release your keyboard to anywhere but the US. My guess: Host it on a non-US based server and also put a disclaimer that it should not be used in the US.

I could be smoking pot and be way off my mark here but that's my humble take on the matter.

Re: Advanced text entry on Sailfish (Swype or similar)
 

Well, as mentioned earlier, software patents are not valid in Europe and Jolla is not available anywhere else. That should also play some role.

Re: Advanced text entry on Sailfish (Swype or similar)
 

so are you releasing it? :)

Re: Advanced text entry on Sailfish (Swype or similar)
 

Thanks for all your answers and comments (I didn't expect so many :) )

My question about patents was more about the hosting part, but I think i'll do as Droll suggest (and ask openly to any hosting company involved). tell me if you have any hosting solution suggestion.

@coderus: i think you mixed up patents & trademarks

Btw i've got another question about licensing: I'm using several modified Jolla keyboard files (all based on the nemo keyboard files). They come with Nokia open source licence: Are there OSS license compatible with these terms ? (for the whole package, i'll obviously keep the original copyright notice for these files). Or should i use a separate license for my files ?

After all the feedback i got, i'm going to release ASAP. I still need to package this (RPM & language files), add a simple app to switch keyboards (you'll want to go back to Jolla's), find hosting & stuff ... As this is a week-end project expect a release maybe in a couple of weeks (depending on weather).

Re: Advanced text entry on Sailfish (Swype or similar)
 

@eber42
Thank you for putting time and effort into this!
I have question about languages that the keyboard will support - will there be possibility to add your own language file(dictionary) or create it by adding words as you type to a "empty" language DB(dictionary file)? Will there be a possibility to use already existing word bases(dictionaries) in Jolla?

Re: Advanced text entry on Sailfish (Swype or similar)
 

do release the sources as well so that others may also contribute to your work.

Re: Advanced text entry on Sailfish (Swype or similar)
 

This has to be some US-patent thingy, since in Europe you cannot enforce a patent on something that is selfmade for own use. That would be pointless anyway, wouldn't it?

Whether a SW product or self-made piece of hardware, I really want to see how this is done in the US :eek:
Is the police going to come to your door (everybody's door? how often? once a month or every friday?) and raid your home for illegal things you might have made in your kitchen/bedroom/garage???

I know it is a police state but how are they going to get enough men to do that across the 52 states... :p

Re: Advanced text entry on Sailfish (Swype or similar)
 

Doesn't Sailfish already provide the ability to easily switch keyboards? Or is your implementation not compatible with that?

Re: Advanced text entry on Sailfish (Swype or similar)
 

I think they will apply economics: is the damage / cost worth sending police to the 52 states? :)

anyway I don't support the patent system either. it's been blatantly abused!

Re: Advanced text entry on Sailfish (Swype or similar)
 

Why not just release it at www.openrepos.net ? :)