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maemo.org - Talk (https://talk.maemo.org/index.php)
-   SailfishOS (https://talk.maemo.org/forumdisplay.php?f=52)
-   -   Jolla at Slush 2014 (https://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=94157)

LAAK1 2014-11-19 12:50
Re: Jolla at Slush 2014
 
So no Other Half for the tablet?

mscion 2014-11-19 12:56
Re: Jolla at Slush 2014
 
Why did Mark Shuttleworth need a $32 million goal for crowd sourcing an Ubuntu phone and Marc Dillion needed only a $380,000 goal to crowd source the Jolla Tablet?

While this is a serious question, feel free to think of this as a joke that you can provide the punchline to!

Tigerroast 2014-11-19 13:02
Re: Jolla at Slush 2014
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mscion (Post 1448047)
Why did Mark Shuttleworth need a $32 million goal for crowd sourcing an Ubuntu phone and Marc Dillion needed only a $380,000 goal to crowd source the Jolla Tablet?
Because Mark wanted to take Ubuntu to the moon!

ste-phan 2014-11-19 13:02
Re: Jolla at Slush 2014
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluefoot (Post 1448035)
I know your comment is tongue in cheek, but the funding goal is fairly meaningless. They will have been aiming for 5x the goal and perhaps hoping for 10x. It's just a pre-order campaign.
"May 2015" could be software roadmap for Sailfish 2.0 delivery.

Hardware wise, the component volume prices stagnate around 1000 - 2500 pieces.

So this fits with the 2 x 1000 first one backer requirement.
Don't know about the actual production batch run costs.
But if Jolla was to truely believe in the quality of this device it would not hurt to have 2000 around receiving pretty positive reviews they are saving up for volume batches with max profit and software stability.

Rauha 2014-11-19 13:02
Re: Jolla at Slush 2014
 
>500k now.

vistaus 2014-11-19 13:08
Re: Jolla at Slush 2014
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mscion (Post 1448047)
Why did Mark Shuttleworth need a $32 million goal for crowd sourcing an Ubuntu phone and Marc Dillion needed only a $380,000 goal to crowd source the Jolla Tablet?

While this is a serious question, feel free to think of this as a joke that you can provide the punchline to!
1 Jolla tablet uses normal components. Ubuntu Edge would've used things like sapphire (or was it diamond?) glass, a quite insane CPU (for phones, that is) and 4 GB of RAM.
2 Canonical didn't have a partnership with a manufacturer, nor any other hw to manufacture. I don't know if Jolla has for the tablet, but they do have for the Jolla Phone so they might as well have established something for the tablet with them as well or else could easily establish it due to the partnership already being there.
3 Canonical doesn't have much funds anymore. All that Mark has put it from his own funds has nearly gone through it. And they don't make *that* much through other channels. Enough to stay alive but not enough to fund a cutting edge device. Meanwhile, Jolla is growing fast and also had a head start in comparison 'cause Nokia did let 'em off with some startup money.

Maybe 3 isn't the most compelling reason, but 1 and 2 are.

Rauha 2014-11-19 13:12
Re: Jolla at Slush 2014
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mscion (Post 1448047)
Why did Mark Shuttleworth need a $32 million goal for crowd sourcing an Ubuntu phone and Marc Dillion needed only a $380,000 goal to crowd source the Jolla Tablet?

While this is a serious question, feel free to think of this as a joke that you can provide the punchline to!
Maybe because Steven Lau (Jolla's largest owner) isn't as cheap as Mark Shuttleworth.

aegis 2014-11-19 13:13
Re: Jolla at Slush 2014
 
Sailfish 2.0 looks like a nice change to the UI. Events View surely means they have to also work out all the sync issues, add account apis, fix CalDAV, CardDAV, twitter/facebook messaging...

I'm sure I'll be adding a Jolla Tablet next year when my budget allows. I've a Nexus 7 so it's not like I 'need' one just now. Even at the full $249 it looks a decent tablet.

I do hope they sort out the intra-EU VAT issue though. I'll be buying it for my business so shouldn't have to pay VAT. I did for my phone - people of Finland can thank me now for paying for Alex Stubb's posh shirts.

jalyst 2014-11-19 13:14
Re: Jolla at Slush 2014
 
Csb, lol...

juiceme 2014-11-19 13:20
Re: Jolla at Slush 2014
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by vistaus (Post 1448051)
Quote:
Originally Posted by mscion (Post 1448047)
Why did Mark Shuttleworth need a $32 million goal for crowd sourcing an Ubuntu phone and Marc Dillion needed only a $380,000 goal to crowd source the Jolla Tablet?

While this is a serious question, feel free to think of this as a joke that you can provide the punchline to!
1 Jolla tablet uses normal components. Ubuntu Edge would've used things like sapphire (or was it diamond?) glass, a quite insane CPU (for phones, that is) and 4 GB of RAM.
2 Canonical didn't have a partnership with a manufacturer, nor any other hw to manufacture. I don't know if Jolla has for the tablet, but they do have for the Jolla Phone so they might as well have established something for the tablet with them as well or else could easily establish it due to the partnership already being there.
3 Canonical doesn't have much funds anymore. All that Mark has put it from his own funds has nearly gone through it. And they don't make *that* much through other channels. Enough to stay alive but not enough to fund a cutting edge device. Meanwhile, Jolla is growing fast and also had a head start in comparison 'cause Nokia did let 'em off with some startup money.

Maybe 3 isn't the most compelling reason, but 1 and 2 are.
As it happens you are missing the real reason behind the Ubuntu Edge campaign; The whole thing was designed from the start to fail as a crowdfunding attempt.

The goal was delibrately set so high as to be unrealistic because Canonical at no point wanted to make the device. It was just a guerilla marketing stint to promote Ubuntu.

I really do not know what they had planned to do if the target was reached in time. I have high suspicion they even did not plan that far :D

brunelli 2014-11-19 13:21
Re: Jolla at Slush 2014
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mscion (Post 1448047)
Why did Mark Shuttleworth need a $32 million goal for crowd sourcing an Ubuntu phone and Marc Dillion needed only a $380,000 goal to crowd source the Jolla Tablet?

While this is a serious question, feel free to think of this as a joke that you can provide the punchline to!
From reddit:

Quote:
Well the reason why Canonical asked for tens of millions of dollars is because they wanted to do a full manufacture of Ubuntu phones. This they are more than likely doing something very different. A full manufacturing cycle does cost millions but because they are making more they actually cost less per unit.
So similarly its how tesco can afford to have so many own brand stuff because they do full cycles and ship them only to their own stores. It keeps costs low because they are doing bulk and that allows for a certain amount of failure and thus allows for less than half of something to be sold to make a profit on it.
With Ubuntu phone they were obviously starting from the ground up and a lot of the technology they were using was new at the time, not new now since Apple picked up the screens and the batteries are getting into new phones soon ish. It would have also paid for them to speed up development a bit on the phone so they could get the showstopper features in there like the convergence stuff.
All that being said if you think the Ubuntu phone indiegogo wasn't anything more than an attempt to gain some publicity for free you are pretty stupid. Other than that it gave them a lot of info about who to actually target with their first phones and that is not the 400 dollar market but slightly lower than that between 200 and at max 400. And all the indications the BQ phone is the cheaper side of that spectrum and the Maizu phone is slightly more expensive but still not pushing past 400.

ajalkane 2014-11-19 13:21
Re: Jolla at Slush 2014
 
I don't even much care about tablets, but I invested for a good cause!

Rauha 2014-11-19 13:23
Re: Jolla at Slush 2014
 
Some stuff from finnish news. http://yle.fi/uutiset/jolla_haluaa_n...medium=twitter

-Only couple of tablet prototypes in existence right now.
-Jolla would gladly see Nokia devices with Sailfish OS, if Nokia wanted use their OS
-Considers Asian partners more likely

+Some more usual marketing crap.

JiiHoo 2014-11-19 13:23
Re: Jolla at Slush 2014
 
YLE has interviewed Antti Saarnio (in Finnish): http://yle.fi/uutiset/jolla_haluaa_n...tyohon/7638960

Edit: Beaten by few seconds... :)

vistaus 2014-11-19 13:30
Re: Jolla at Slush 2014
 
Btw guys, do you think the name would be a problem? I'm one of the first 1000 crowdfunders but I forgot to add shipping. So I just did. Jolla says it's no problem. But for some reason, IndieGogo decided to leave out my last name when funding the tablet while the shipping perk does mention my last name.

So it's like this:
tablet funding - will ship to Heimen, -address-xyz-
shipping perk - will shop to Heimen Stoffels, -address-xyz-

I did put in my correct address in both the tablet funding and shipping perk though. So will the name matter or will they ship it nonetheless since my address is correct in both?

(and yes, that's my real name, no I do not care that I put it in public here)

Fellfrosch 2014-11-19 13:30
Re: Jolla at Slush 2014
 
If there are already prototypes, that's quite nice.

Nokia wasn't brave enough in the past to focus on maemo/meego and I fear they will not be in future to perch on a small OS like Sailfish.

Fellfrosch 2014-11-19 13:32
Re: Jolla at Slush 2014
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by vistaus (Post 1448064)
Btw guys, do you think the name would be a problem? I'm one of the first 1000 crowdfunders but I forgot to add shipping. So I just did. Jolla says it's no problem. But for some reason, IndieGogo decided to leave out my last name when funding the tablet while the shipping perk does mention my last name.

So it's like this:
tablet funding - will ship to Heimen, -address-xyz-
shipping perk - will shop to Heimen Stoffels, -address-xyz-

I did put in my correct address in both the tablet funding and shipping perk though. So will the name matter or will they ship it nonetheless since my address is correct in both?

(and yes, that's my real name, no I do not care that I put it in public here)
I've also forgotten the shipping. But the shipping address is identical to the first perk.

HtheB 2014-11-19 13:33
Re: Jolla at Slush 2014
 
Thats weird, I didn't pay for the Shipping, but it accepted my payment for the perk.
Can I still pay for it? Does anyone know about this?

Edit: Nevermind, I just noticed the "$20 shipping perk" :)

Morpog 2014-11-19 13:35
Re: Jolla at Slush 2014
 
Read the FAQ ;)

Fellfrosch 2014-11-19 13:35
Re: Jolla at Slush 2014
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by HtheB (Post 1448067)
Thats weird, I didn't pay for the Shipping, but it accepted my payment for the perk.
Can I still pay for it? Does anyone know about this?

Edit: Nevermind, I just noticed the "$20 shipping perk" :)
It's mentioned on the FAQ. Just order the shipping perk and use exactly the same shipping address.

jalyst 2014-11-19 13:36
Re: Jolla at Slush 2014
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ajalkane (Post 1448059)
I don't even much care about tablets, but I invested for a good cause!
Given how many times I've been disappointed by this outfit I can't convince myself to invest/donate that kind of $, but, I'll gladly give them the $10 minimum they ask for.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rauha (Post 1448060)
-Considers Asian partners more likely
Surprise surprise...

NokiaFanatic 2014-11-19 13:39
Re: Jolla at Slush 2014
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mscion (Post 1448047)
Why did Mark Shuttleworth need a $32 million goal for crowd sourcing an Ubuntu phone and Marc Dillion needed only a $380,000 goal to crowd source the Jolla Tablet?

While this is a serious question, feel free to think of this as a joke that you can provide the punchline to!
When Canonical announced their kickstarter, they didn't even have an OS. For them to develop an entire OS with GSM capability from no base whatsoever would have required at least 100 engineers working on it. Assuming a cost of $100k per worker, that's $10M a year just to pay their wages. Jolla on the other hand didn't have that draw back. They already had the core of an OS that works great. Hardware costs are the other massive chunk of the costs. From what we saw, it sounded like Ubuntu wanted their own custom hardware. Jolla on the other hand seem to be taking an off the shelf chipset+screen and putting their own case around it. That is why it seems so similarily specced to the Nokia/Ipad.

I said at the time, that people completely underestimated the work/money needed for Canonical to develop a stable, tested and working OS.

Rauha 2014-11-19 13:41
Re: Jolla at Slush 2014
 
Decided finally not to get one.

-(Almost) no need
-Wifi only
-How badly Jolla handled the phone pre-orders last year.

But its six months until release and obviously they will have "regular" sales later on. Maybe buy one when they are in shops.

Really wanting a new model Jolla phone though.

Fellfrosch 2014-11-19 13:48
Re: Jolla at Slush 2014
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rauha (Post 1448075)
Decided finally not to get one.

-(Almost) no need
-Wifi only
-How badly Jolla handled the phone pre-orders last year.

But its six months until release and obviously they will have "regular" sales later on. Maybe buy one when they are in shops.

Really wanting a new model Jolla phone though.
May I ask, what was so badly wrong with the pre-orders handling?
I was also one of the first ones and hadn't had the feeling that there really went something wrong.

acrux 2014-11-19 13:48
Re: Jolla at Slush 2014
 
I guess you can get 3G/4G capabilities with the external USB 3G or 4G dongle.
Or even better - ask to include a sd slot instead on micro-sd slot and use a huawei-E2130-UltraStick-Wireless-3G-21Mbps-SD-modem in it. Nokia probably can't do that in its tablet, but Jolla can...

Rauha 2014-11-19 13:54
Re: Jolla at Slush 2014
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fellfrosch (Post 1448076)
May I ask, what was so badly wrong with the pre-orders handling?
I was also one of the first ones and hadn't had the feeling that there really went something wrong.
The whole "First one" aspect of it.

-They sent them almost randomly, no matter how early or late people had ordered them.
-had reserved far too little resources for shipping in general
-Weren't open about these distribution problems until there was a huge out cry among the supporters.
-Run out of the pre-order exclusive Other Halfs.

EDIT:
-Charged EU VAT from orders outside EU(Swiss&Norway)
-Their whole tech support & warranty issues were FUBAR for months


Thats just quickly from memory. There are about million cry and whine posts on this forum about the problems from around November - December 2013.

Fellfrosch 2014-11-19 14:09
Re: Jolla at Slush 2014
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rauha (Post 1448078)
The whole "First one" aspect of it.

-They sent them almost randomly, no matter how early or late people had ordered them.
-Weren't open about these distribution problems until there was a huge out cry among the supporters.
-Run out of the pre-order exclusive Other Halfs.

Thats just from quick memory. there are about million cry and whine posts on this forum about the problems from around November - December 2013.
Ok that the per-order exclusive Other Halfs run out was a bit strange, I agree with you. But the other things were in my opinion just smaller interferences.
The only thing what was a big let down and still is: The missing spare battery. I have no clue why we still don't have one.
Oh and there is a further one: Still no paid apps in the store.
But for me that's all. With the rest I'm quite comfortable.

EDIT:
Ok wrong VAT is also a no go. Didn't recognised that problem.

KempeWeidenbaum 2014-11-19 14:47
Re: Jolla at Slush 2014
 
Well probably they didn't count on such an interest.
Three hours and the goal was reached.. Sick how awesome that is evolving.
And it's a tablet... I guess it's going to work out.

JoOppen 2014-11-19 15:15
Re: Jolla at Slush 2014
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rauha (Post 1448075)
Decided finally not to get one.

-(Almost) no need
-Wifi only
-How badly Jolla handled the phone pre-orders last year.

But its six months until release and obviously they will have "regular" sales later on. Maybe buy one when they are in shops.

Really wanting a new model Jolla phone though.
I also want a new, smaller Jolla 2 first! I want a Jolla with all the srcreen within the reach of my thumb so I can use the Jolla one-handed like my N9 (which I rarely use anymore because the Jolla is faster and more open - on the other hand: lacking schedule synch with my n900 / N9 and no search in Emails and no system-wide copy-and-paste are down points).

And I also do not know why I would need a tablet without stylus and keyboard.

Nevertheless I ordered a Jolla tablet because
- I want to promote Sailfish
- I think the tablet is not all that bad and will at least qualify as a photo album
- Jolla appears eager to deliver therefore I trust them
- WIFI only is not a problem because tethering with Jolla 1 is fine. In fact, it turned out that my Vaio is quicker when tethered to the Jolla (4G) than with the built-in 3G-Modem

I hope our trust in Jolla will not be disappointed and a successfull campaign will motivate them to quickly release an official Sailfish update for everyone.

Cheers, Jo

m4r0v3r 2014-11-19 15:21
Re: Jolla at Slush 2014
 
i wonder what the driver situation will be, will it be plain android drivers or will there be glibc drivers available, if so you can throw anything on their from sailfish to windows to any linux distro all on 64bit

jalyst 2014-11-19 15:35
Re: Jolla at Slush 2014
 
If it ends up being that flexible (which I highly doubt), I may change my mind & buy one.

railroadmaster 2014-11-19 15:44
Re: Jolla at Slush 2014
 
The only thing that I want from this device that it doesn't have is an active digitizer pen. If it had an active digitizer pen, then it would be perfect.

JoOppen 2014-11-19 15:53
Re: Jolla at Slush 2014
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by railroadmaster (Post 1448096)
The only thing that I want from this device that it doesn't have is an active digitizer pen. If it had an active digitizer pen, then it would be perfect.
You name it! (Nevertheless I already bought one)

ste-phan 2014-11-19 16:01
Re: Jolla at Slush 2014
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by railroadmaster (Post 1448096)
The only thing that I want from this device that it doesn't have is an active digitizer pen. If it had an active digitizer pen, then it would be perfect.
amongst other features, I would be very interested in this pen as well.

cheap hardware doesn't have to be bad but I t often means incomplete feature list..

An Apple price with complete feature list: IR, HDMI, Wacom, SD card etc... would have been fine for me.


posted from my N900, being unlike on the train :p

Dave999 2014-11-19 16:14
Re: Jolla at Slush 2014
 
Jolla tablet? Seriously. Who came up with that :D atleast it's better than just jolla.

It's a jPad...

dirkvl 2014-11-19 16:16
Re: Jolla at Slush 2014
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave999 (Post 1448100)
Jolla tablet? Seriously. Who came up with that :D

It's a jPad...
Dave, can you come up with a catchy name for a Jolla tablet TOH?

Dave999 2014-11-19 16:17
Re: Jolla at Slush 2014
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by dirkvl (Post 1448101)
Dave, can you come up with a catchy name for a Jolla tablet TOH?
Yes, I can. R2-DTOH

And the only thing it can do is to play strange robot sounds when using jPad.

Seriously, just copy all your Toh and make em bigger

Release2-DirksTheOtherHafes

mrsellout 2014-11-19 16:23
Re: Jolla at Slush 2014
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by dirkvl (Post 1448101)
Dave, can you come up with a catchy name for a Jolla tablet TOH?
Have they said anything or have you handled the proto to come to any conclusions about a OH interface with regards to the Jolla Tablet?

youmeego 2014-11-19 16:29
Re: Jolla at Slush 2014
 
Any Hands on video?

pichlo 2014-11-19 16:31
Re: Jolla at Slush 2014
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by youmeego (Post 1448107)
Any Hands on video?
No, a video with hands was a Nokia thing.


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