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maemo.org - Talk (https://talk.maemo.org/index.php)
-   SailfishOS (https://talk.maemo.org/forumdisplay.php?f=52)
-   -   Jolla at Slush 2014 (https://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=94157)

tmi 2014-11-20 13:07
Re: Jolla at Slush 2014
 
A news article (in Finnish, and the Google translation) about the fast advancing tablet campaign.

Mentions the surprisingly good popularity even though Jolla had known to expect it according to Juhani Lassila (Jolla's Head of Communications). Some speculation about delivery times (April-June) and in the end a mention of no decisions yet whether the tablet will be available publicly or not after the IndieGoGo campaign.

Morpog 2014-11-20 13:42
Re: Jolla at Slush 2014
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by tissot (Post 1448302)
Anybody seen a pic of the browser used on Sailfish 2.0?
Browser on Jolla phone was atrocious compared to competition. Hopefully they have something totally new out there.
New browser design (hopefully in Update 11):

http://abload.de/thumb/sailfish-browser-15-111udn.jpg http://abload.de/thumb/sailfish-browser-15-20buug.jpg http://abload.de/thumb/sailfish-browser-15-3zuum2.jpg http://abload.de/thumb/sailfish-browser-15-4u8ugr.jpg

From Vertu with Love 2014-11-20 13:53
Re: Jolla at Slush 2014
 
I just want a way to default to mobile versions of websites.

vistaus 2014-11-20 14:05
Re: Jolla at Slush 2014
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by From Vertu with Love (Post 1448365)
I just want a way to default to mobile versions of websites.
Works fine here, both in stock Jolla browser and WebCat. In fact, what doesn't work for me is desktop versions. As soon as I click that I want the desktop version of the site, it still defaults to the mobile version :(

nthn 2014-11-20 15:36
Re: Jolla at Slush 2014
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Morpog (Post 1448360)
New browser design (hopefully in Update 11):
Interesting, even though the functionality remains essentially the same, it looks a lot better. Where did you get these pictures?

aegis 2014-11-20 15:38
Re: Jolla at Slush 2014
 
Not a fan of the burger icon menu. I know it's a common pattern but it should be a pulley glow like in the media app to expand the menu/toolbar?

I was disappointed we lost the glowing dots indicating the page stack depth in the last update. It's ending up more and more like the other UIs.

48GX 2014-11-20 15:41
Re: Jolla at Slush 2014
 
wifi only?

I need more specs to know if it is interesting...

regards

Morpog 2014-11-20 15:44
Re: Jolla at Slush 2014
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by nthn (Post 1448380)
Interesting, even though the functionality remains essentially the same, it looks a lot better. Where did you get these pictures?
From it's source. The browser is 100% open after all. You can contribute to it if you want to speed up the development.
https://github.com/sailfishos/sailfi.../master/design

nthn 2014-11-20 16:08
Re: Jolla at Slush 2014
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Morpog (Post 1448385)
From it's source. The browser is 100% open after all. You can contribute to it if you want to speed up the development.
https://github.com/sailfishos/sailfi.../master/design
Oh thanks, I completely missed that!

NokiaFanatic 2014-11-20 16:22
Re: Jolla at Slush 2014
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by aegis (Post 1448275)
The Reg are reporting it as having an Atom 3700 series SoC according to Intel.

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2014/11/19/jolla_tablet/
Forgive me if I'm wrong, but surely there's no impediment to putting Linux on this?

P@t 2014-11-20 16:38
Re: Jolla at Slush 2014
 
interesting tweet about what was needed to create Jolla
https://twitter.com/SaniLeino/status/535460240805101568

so more than 30 million euros and 306,000 man hours (about 35 years) :p

Bundyo 2014-11-20 16:40
Re: Jolla at Slush 2014
 
Its official - Atom Z37xx (Bay-Trail-T) line:
http://newsroom.intel.com/community/...wered-by-intel

bluefoot 2014-11-20 16:53
Re: Jolla at Slush 2014
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by shmerl (Post 1448295)
I posted a proposal to use Cherry Trail SoC with Broadwell GPU (personally I don't mind if that means delaying the tablet, but those chips should arrive sometime in 2015).
Airmont is a process shrink of Silvermont. Nothing else. It'll use slightly less power but won't add features or be faster, CPU side.

It'd probably push the tablet into Q3, and Jolla would likely miss out on the gigantic price cuts / kickbacks / development assistance they're getting from Intel, probably canning the whole project.

butler 2014-11-20 17:15
Re: Jolla at Slush 2014
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by aegis (Post 1448275)
The Reg are reporting it as having an Atom 3700 series SoC according to Intel
So at the moment we have:
  • Jolla announced that CPU was selected with SW freedom in mind,
  • Stskeeps hinted that the tablet has an Intel GPU,
  • The Register reports that Intel (!) said the tablet is going to have an Atom 37xx CPU

It looks like we'll really get an Intel GPU, great!

CPU must have 1.8GHz, 2G DDR3L-RS and drive 2048x1536 display. The best match in this wikipedia table is Z3740D, though it supports max 1920×1280, as all CPU that use DDR3L-RS do. And all of them are single channel too. Resolution restriction is most likely result of relatively low mem bandwith, since transferring just single framebuffer 2048x1536@60Hz requires 550MBytes/s with guaranteed latencies, and I guess more is needed if compositing is used. So yes, tablet do need well tested high-performance graphics stack to push pixels over spec limit )

And BTW I find it strange that we still don't have detailed hardware specs directly from Jolla and have to compile them from third-party sources, hints and guesswork... Right now most concrete info about CPU comes from what Intel told The Register. That and general silence on TJC about anything related to the tablet. I guess there are reasons, most likely they don't want to loose freedom to change HW specs without bad PR or they have some NDAs.

Update: oh well, now we have announcment from Intel.

shmerl 2014-11-20 17:19
Re: Jolla at Slush 2014
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by vistaus (Post 1448337)
Yup, big selling point. 'Cause the average tablet user cares about that. #not It's not only tech people who pre-order it on IndieGogo.
Average users have tons of garbage on the market. Those who are interested in real Linux tablets supported this campaign.

nodevel 2014-11-20 17:19
Re: Jolla at Slush 2014
 
butler: Did you read the Indiegogo page? Of course anything can change, it's a crowdfunding campaign of a planned product, not a pre-order campaign on a finished one. It is smart they don't announce the final specs when they do not know them, heck they are even asking supporters to help to shape them.

shmerl 2014-11-20 17:20
Re: Jolla at Slush 2014
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluefoot (Post 1448407)
Airmont is a process shrink of Silvermont. Nothing else. It'll use slightly less power but won't add features or be faster, CPU side.

It'd probably push the tablet into Q3, and Jolla would likely miss out on the gigantic price cuts / kickbacks / development assistance they're getting from Intel, probably canning the whole project.
Why would they lose Intel's assistance in that case?

MartinK 2014-11-20 17:30
Re: Jolla at Slush 2014
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by butler (Post 1448411)
So at the moment we have:
  • The Register reports that Intel (!) said the tablet is going to have an Atom 37xx CPU
Well Atom 37xx could also bring use some other nice features:
  • VT-x (hardware visualization support), meaning we might be able to efficiently run arbitrary virtual machines with KVM :)
  • AES-NI (hardware encryption support) - could be used for efficient bulk data encryption (home or whole rootfs & home, etc.)
  • secure key (hardware random number generator) - could also help with encryption when the system is entropy starved

butler 2014-11-20 17:42
Re: Jolla at Slush 2014
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by nodevel (Post 1448414)
butler: Did you read the Indiegogo page? Of course anything can change, it's a crowdfunding campaign of a planned product, not a pre-order campaign on a finished one. It is smart they don't announce the final specs when they do not know them, heck they are even asking supporters to help to shape them.
Well, here is an answer from an hour ago. It looked like they considered HW frozen, but now I read it so that they are considering some minor changes. It looks like they already have prototypes or perhaps HW from some OEM, and it's very unlikely that they would swap CPU at this stage if it's not pin and SW compatible. Maybe they will add some pereperals -- wireless charging, a LED, an NFC module if they would fit in existing case...

shmerl 2014-11-20 17:52
Re: Jolla at Slush 2014
 
I hope they'll add a video output port. Unfortunately Thunderbolt 3 won't be ready in time for that.

mrsellout 2014-11-20 19:10
Re: Jolla at Slush 2014
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by butler (Post 1448421)
Well, here is an answer from an hour ago. It looked like they considered HW frozen, but now I read it so that they are considering some minor changes. It looks like they already have prototypes or perhaps HW from some OEM, and it's very unlikely that they would swap CPU at this stage if it's not pin and SW compatible. Maybe they will add some pereperals -- wireless charging, a LED, an NFC module if they would fit in existing case...
As cybette answers in that thread, and as Stskeeps said yesterday on irc (as posted by Morpog earlier in this thread), there is some scope for change even on hw, but it's dependent on sales volumes.

The igg bar was set at $380k or 1735 units @ $219 inc. del., was that set artificially low, or was it a true target? Currently they've sold ~4400 units - is that enough to bring better HW into the picture, or do they need a much bigger sales volume to do so?


Quote:
answered 3 hours ago
https://www.gravatar.com/avatar/2926...identicon&r=PG cybette https://together.jolla.com/m/default...ags/fi.gif?v=2 2588 ●28 ●30 ●27 moderator




We are taking your feedback seriously, and at this point we can't promise anything as especially many hardware changes require significant volumes. However, we truly are giving your suggestions (both SW and HW) very serious considerations and discussing all different possibilities that we have to make things happen. Once we have something more concrete, we will share that. Thanks!
Quote:
Stskeeps juergbi: it is also that strictly speaking with more funding some things may change, like for example tohkbd had the option to let all people get coloured kbds of choice, it all comes down to scale14:41

Stskeeps sometimes, for example with jolla1 we had option between bog standard msm8930aa vs msm8930 or how was it, fitting in same SW and same HW14:42

juergbi Stskeeps: i understand. in an interview it was mentioned that hardware was already fixed, though14:42

Stskeeps but i would be really unhappy to change gpu during development.. we did that from mali to qcom14:42

Stskeeps juergbi: i've not read things yet :) just explaining why i might be cautious about what i am saying14:43

Stskeepsi hope this product can be really transparent in development and i'll do my part to make it so14:43




Tigerroast 2014-11-20 19:23
Re: Jolla at Slush 2014
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by vistaus (Post 1448337)
Yup, big selling point. 'Cause the average tablet user cares about that. #not It's not only tech people who pre-order it on IndieGogo.
^Why do people do this?

When tech people care a lot about something, they begin to develop for that something rather than what people are used to using.

When that happens, non-tech people pretty much have to care about it.

EDIT: Well, in this regard, people don't HAVE to care about it if they don't want it; freedom of choice and all that noise. You get my point though.

shmerl 2014-11-20 19:28
Re: Jolla at Slush 2014
 
I submitted a request for open drivers friendly hardware for the Jolla tablet. Please vote.

mikecomputing 2014-11-20 19:31
Re: Jolla at Slush 2014
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by P@t (Post 1448403)
interesting tweet about what was needed to create Jolla
https://twitter.com/SaniLeino/status/535460240805101568

so more than 30 million euros and 306,000 man hours (about 35 years) :p
30 million...

....and how much have the sold? For those beleive in a second phone should ask themself if its even possible do a second device

They have too sell alot of the first one to get a chance for a second phone. 100000 atleast for price of 300EUR to get the money back and then they need more money to create second...

szopin 2014-11-20 19:59
Re: Jolla at Slush 2014
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by shmerl (Post 1448446)
Correct way to go about it, just wondering, do any z37xx chips have open drivers? Or are planned to be? From what I've seen mentioned even open gma500 drivers did not result in all netbooks using that chip in getting linux. Is it in Jolla's hands, or more on intel (in)side?

meyer 2014-11-20 20:35
Re: Jolla at Slush 2014
 
Looks like Jolla is close to 1 million USD :) https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/j...blet/x/9174763

tbeu 2014-11-20 20:38
Re: Jolla at Slush 2014
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bundyo (Post 1448404)
Its official - Atom Z37xx (Bay-Trail-T) line:
http://newsroom.intel.com/community/...wered-by-intel
At https://twitter.com/search?q=%23sailfishos it is quoted that it will be the Z3735F.

billranton 2014-11-20 21:17
Re: Jolla at Slush 2014
 
$995k pledged. $1m coming up...

bluefoot 2014-11-20 21:22
Re: Jolla at Slush 2014
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikecomputing (Post 1448447)
30 million...

....and how much have the sold? For those beleive in a second phone should ask themself if its even possible do a second device

They have too sell alot of the first one to get a chance for a second phone. 100000 atleast for price of 300EUR to get the money back and then they need more money to create second...
The short answer is that there's no way they can fund subsequent products through cashflow from the first phone. Just no way.

Subsequent products are a mix of venture capital, cashflow, probably bank loans and a very small percentage will be made up by "crowdfunding" (basically pre-orders).

They went with the Intel chip because they're likely to get enormous assistance from them, either in funding, price cuts, engineering assistance or all 3.

This is one of the reasons why it is so incredibly important, both from a financial and design perspective, that they manage to get a large high quality OEM for the second phone and modify an existing platform. Keeping development costs down for such a small company is so vital .. and why, in my view, the first phone has been semi-disastrous.

szopin 2014-11-20 21:35
Re: Jolla at Slush 2014
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluefoot (Post 1448484)
in my view, the first phone has been semi-disastrous.
welp, they showed they can deliver on ultra short deadlines, which probably managed to secure some further investments (the part about funding itself fully on first device was spot on), now tablet incoming, disaster

bluefoot 2014-11-20 21:48
Re: Jolla at Slush 2014
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by szopin (Post 1448486)
welp, they showed they can deliver on ultra short deadlines, which probably managed to secure some further investments (the part about funding itself fully on first device was spot on), now tablet incoming, disaster
I'm talking about its development cost relative to return (and impact on quality of the product).

tbeu 2014-11-20 21:56
Re: Jolla at Slush 2014
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bundyo (Post 1448404)
Its official - Atom Z37xx (Bay-Trail-T) line:
http://newsroom.intel.com/community/...wered-by-intel
At https://twitter.com/search?q=%23sailfishos it is quoted that it will be the Z3735F.

billranton 2014-11-20 21:57
Re: Jolla at Slush 2014
 
And there we go...

http://i.imgur.com/MdWhtbK.png

Koiruus 2014-11-20 21:58
Re: Jolla at Slush 2014
 
...aaaaaaand we have a million.
http://www.reactiongifs.com/r/yaay.gif

tbeu 2014-11-20 21:58
Re: Jolla at Slush 2014
 
1e6$s in less than 37h.

szopin 2014-11-20 22:11
Re: Jolla at Slush 2014
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluefoot (Post 1448491)
I'm talking about its development cost relative to return (and impact on quality of the product).
Can't blame Jolla that NovaThor disappeared after they've spent lots of time on it, can only applaud how quickly they adapted to the situation and continued to be in smartphone business, unlike the big ship they left... anyways, not important right now because



1 MILLION!!!! W0000000000000t!

hhbbap 2014-11-20 22:19
Re: Jolla at Slush 2014
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluefoot (Post 1448484)
The short answer is that there's no way they can fund subsequent products through cashflow from the first phone. Just no way.
...
They went with the Intel chip because they're likely to get enormous assistance from them, either in funding, price cuts, engineering assistance or all 3.
...
Just curious: would there be anything prepared and unused one could brush the dust off from Intel and Nokias Meego project, on the Intel side?

rcolistete 2014-11-20 22:48
Re: Jolla at Slush 2014
 
US$1,005,602 ! 489 out of 1000 from US$209 batch, so 4,489 tablets were payed. 19 days left.

mscion 2014-11-20 23:06
Re: Jolla at Slush 2014
 
I just checked. $3.2 million was raised for the Ubuntu Edge the first day. Maxed out at around $13 million. Jolla did quite well for itself given name recognition and that they are offering a tablet, not the latest greatest super powerful phone with overblown specs! Congratulations! Let see how high this goes!

pagis 2014-11-20 23:40
Re: Jolla at Slush 2014
 
there are 19 more days, but I think the rate will be a lot slower, maybe it will max around 6000?


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