maemo.org - Talk - questions regarding Neo900 Shop

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- - questions regarding Neo900 Shop (https://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=95482)

Re: questions regarding Neo900 Shop

Naturally it makes complete sense to observe the legal ramifications and do proper consultation before taking any steps.
Rash immediate un-consulted action could be costly.
Cautious well consulted, planned and timed action may sidestep potential unforeseen cost...possibly resolve the issue with little ...if no upset to timelines and availability of funds..

Agreed.

Fact is ...I'm guessing this situation is precedent setting with paypal and their policies...how this is handled, dealt with and resolved will spell whether other enterprises invest their time and monies into paypal as a result of the outcome of this situation...

Re: questions regarding Neo900 Shop

Quote:

Originally Posted by wpwrak (Post 1484895)

In the old days, you needed to specify the destination by providing the bank's SWIFT code (aka BIC, Bank Identifier Code) and the account number ... Nowadays, the IBAN (International Bank Account Number) which includes the BIC in the account number is more common, but some banks may still prefer the old system. In any case, either should work for sending money ...

... you should receive all the necessary information in the shop. Or you can look it up on the donation page ...

The donation page gives your IBAN as DE55 7607 0024 0043 4332 00, and your BIC as DEUTDEDB760.

Strictly speaking, your IBAN does not include your BIC, which suggests that they are incompatible.

Is there an account number that goes with the BIC for SWIFT?

Re: questions regarding Neo900 Shop

Quote:

Originally Posted by ibero (Post 1484973)

Bank number is 760 700 24 which is equivalent to BIC DEUTDEDB760
Account number is 043433200

Re: questions regarding Neo900 Shop

Quote:

Originally Posted by joerg_rw (Post 1484936)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Malakai (Post 1484931)

Maybe it would be a good idea that you (I refer here to Neo900 UG (haftungsbeschränkt) if my understanding of the company behind the Neo900 project is right) could right a standard demand mail (that we all coud send to PayPal) that explains from our (the potential future customers) point of view the situation and that asks for all the money be send to the bank account.
This way PayPal will receive from all of us a standard mail written in proper english language (I don't think that I could explain the situation in an understandable way in an mail) and act according to our wish.
Just an idea if we will have to contact PayPal...

As already stated above, "we" are still discussing that. I have an appointment with lawyer at Monday, until then I don't want to recommend any action you should take. I'm just informing you about the current state of things. If you don't feel comfortable with writing an email to PP on your own initiative and in your own (or fellow customers') words, then please wait until we possibly come up with such template email you suggested, we already pondered this but need to talk to 'experts' first.

I talked with my lawyer and will receive more feedback tomorrow.
Meanwhile there was some discussion on IRC and some customers went ahead and posted an email to PP, using this template. While I'm suffering headache from this stuff. :(

so much for today, more tomorrow
/j

Re: questions regarding Neo900 Shop

Ok... but what do you recommend? What would be the best strategy?
Start sending mails or wait a little until you see if you can solve the situation, and if not then send mails?

Re: questions regarding Neo900 Shop

Quote:

Originally Posted by Malakai (Post 1485253)

Ok... but what do you recommend? What would be the best strategy?
Start sending mails or wait a little until you see if you can solve the situation, and if not then send mails?

Sorry I wasn't clear enough. While I talked to lawyer today, I didn't manage to get and thus come up with any recommendation yet. I'm talking with lawyer again tomorrow, until then same statement as quoted in my last post applies: >>until then I don't want to recommend any action<<. Would be a pity if I would recommend sending mails now and in 2 days it turns out we should have added one little detail to such mail and I would need to ask you to send a mail *again*. Maybe my note about headache was ambiguous? It's caused by PP, not users who already sent mails.

cheers
jOERG

customers who used PayPal: ACTION NEEDED

[back reference - root: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php...90#post1484790 post #58 in this thread]

OK, now more details from my lawyer, she sent a letter to PP today. Still no comments/criticism on the plan of customers sending emails.
So, to support that letter of my lawyer, now I'd like to ask all of our customers who did a PP payment to us during last 8 months to send a email to PayPal stating what they want their money to get done with.
Many thanks to IRC user edwin who provided this (slightly modified) template:

Quote:

From my PayPal account "<paypal-email-addr>" I have made a payment on 2015-MM-DD (charged on 2015-MM-DD) to Neo900 UG: Amount <Value Euros>; Unique Transaction #<17ALPHANUMERIC>.

PayPal decided to freeze those funds in a "Reserve" on the recipients account, to protect my rights against any risks.
I have talked with the owner of the destination account, and there is definitely no problem with the account per se, other than said "Reserve".

I instruct Paypal to release 100% of the funds to Neo900 UG for the purpose I intended them to be used for: purchase of materials and labor wages,
quoting from the shop page [1]:
"The DOWN PAYMENT is required for sourcing risk components (hard to source chips, etc.), for purchasing case parts, and for related expenses."

I confirm that I have read the Neo900 UG Terms of Service [2], acknowledge that it is a crowdfunding project, and understand the risks associated with it.
I also waive any rights to rollback the transaction unless Paypal fails to release the funds to Neo900 UG.

[1] https://my.neo900.org/index.php?id_p...duct&id_lang=1
[2] https://my.neo900.org/index.php?id_c...content_only=1

Please use the PayPal "Receipt for Your Payment to Neo900 UG (haftungsbeschränkt)" email you received, or log in to your PayPal account to find the dates, amount, and transaction code.
[edit]An "email" form can be found on your PayPal account webpage in footer under "Help&contact" or somesuch. Pretty unconvenient, it obviously sends an automated reply which you need to answer with same msg again to pass that first 'firewall'. I received the notification about "Reserve" From: "Europeanservices AT paypal.com" <europeanservices AT paypal.com> anyway[/edit]

Thanks to all customers for helping with this issue and sorry for the inconvenience
jOERG

[edit] ps.: we wouldn't mind if you keep contact@neo900 .org in BCC of any such mail

Re: questions regarding Neo900 Shop

Now that there is a standardized form.
And a proper plan.
Sent mine out to paypal.
Personally I have had good experiences with paypal.
I'm sure others haven't.
But for myself I have found them understanding and compassionate.
We'll see how it unfolds.

Re: questions regarding Neo900 Shop

I've sent the standardised message to them using the "Contact" section of their website. If they permit an actual email to be sent to them at any point, I will bcc contact <at> neo900 <dot> org.

Edit:

Warning:
PayPal automatically responds with an automated message to avoid a human answering your query. To get a human involved, you must reply to their automated reply!

Re: questions regarding Neo900 Shop

Prompt, helpful and crystal clear answer.

I then responded with bare (as brief as I can be :D) essentials in hopes of bringing the whole issue to the forefront of their attention and for everyone to a speedy and satisfactory resolution to this issue.

"Date: Wed, 14 Oct 2015 00:07:31 +0000
From: webform@intl.paypal.com
To:
Subject: RE: RE: Questions about payment statuses

Dear Paul Carlin,

Hello! My name is Celine from PayPal Products and Site Support. I apologize if the previous response did not properly address your concern about the payment for the Neo900 Development Support.

In my desire to clarify your concern, I tried calling you at 250-714-0787 and was not able to reach you. I'd be glad to assist you via this email.

I assure you that the €276.00 EUR payment has been successfully credited to the account of Neo900 UG (haftungsbeschränkt) on March 26, 2015. If the merchant claims that they did not receive your payment, I strongly suggest that you advise them to contact us directly. This way, we'll have the permission to check their PayPal account and provide the payment details.

We can be reached at 1-888-221-1161 during these hours:

• 4:00 AM to 10:00 PM PT, Monday – Friday
• 6:00 AM to 8:00 PM PT, Saturday – Sunday

It's been a pleasure to have assisted a valued customer like you. Thank you for choosing PayPal to process your payments.

Sincerely,
Celine
Consumer Support
PayPal

Hi Celine,

Terribly sorry about that.
2507140787 was an old phone number the other phone number is my current proper cell number.
Concerning the funds specific...
I am glad the funds have been properly received and are accessible to the neo900 foundation,
otherwise the necessary parts and components for the devices they are making for our community could not be purchased.
Thank you so much for the very timely elucidation Celine.
I have had nothing but the best experiences when dealing with paypal support.
Quick, informative, excellent in resolving issues and helpful.

To offer some small insight..

It is my understanding that other fellow members of our tech community are attempting to verify the same information since it has come to our attention that their paypal funds directed to the neo900 project...and the project's paypal accounts ... have been ...for the lack of a better term ...frozen...due to the necessity of (most likely automated) policies of protection implemented by paypal.
It is an understandable reaction concerning the nature of modern day crowdfunding and protecting the interests of donators from potential collapse and loss of their donations...

The neo900 project however from day 1 has not been a crowd funded project.
In short.
The project team members (who are also fellow members of our community for many many years are of upstanding nature..) have purchased and tested some few components and devices at their cost and time which have the highest chance of success...
once success through trial and testing has been achieved ..
then finding an affordable manufacturer for those components is necessary.
The most affordable method then is a bulk purchase of those parts...
We are then informed as to that cost to purchase in bulk those components ....
and then we are informed of the individual cost for our own device...
at which point we all pony-up the necessary money to buy the needed components for the construction of our devices.

In conclusion (perhaps too brief) the project we support is not crowdfunding.

Hopefully what little info I have provided will help in the clearing up what appears to be a simple misunderstanding.

Thanks again Celine.
yours Paul"