Moderators are going cookoo
 

Maybe you don't think through, but this is racist. if you think Russia is evil, you should not use @coderus apps/patches btw :)

At russian telecommunication site in announcement it's written "open" OS. i wonder why would Jolla keep talking about their OS being open if it's not! Reminds me of the indiegogo campaign they stated that (before it was fixed after some noise) and as well as Marc said it's open on campaign video.

And you can't say "not yet" as more than 2 years passed. they need to state the truth and not put words "open" and "opensource" every opportunity to self promote!

Give it a title of your choosing
 

Umm no. Just no.

Disagreeing with Russian goverment does not mean that someone is racist, nor that every person with russian ethnicity is wrong and it certainly has **** all to do with @coderus. He's not member of Putin's cabinet.

Russian are a great people. Their art, science and technology has advanced and gifted humanity greatly. But I don't like Putin, I don't like his siloviki authocracy. It's war against Ukraine. It's attempt to turn the clock back to 19th century with empires and their spheres of influence. The constant flow of bombers and submarines on borders of Europe. The faith of MH17.


I could go on...

The point is that I can hate Russian goverment without it affecting my opinion of individual russians at all. And I live in a small town almost next to the border between Russia and Finland. Same the goes to to just about every goverment/people on the planet. I objected the invasion of Iraq, but I don't go spitting on apple pies. I don't like Israeli occupation of Palestine, but I'm not an antisemite. And so on. The total list would be very long.

If Jolla really goes into business with Putin's cleptocracy, and they are negotiating directly with the .ru goverment (not invidual russian busineses), then thats the end for me. I won't buy products from a corporation that does deals with organisation run by a monster like Putin.

Re: Sailfishto be official Mobile OS
 

Offtopic:
Government is more than one person, mate. Jolla is not making contract with Mr. P, right?
So basically assuming that selling out to "devil" just because it's Russian ministry of communication, where assumption comes from from word "Russian", not Putin(is he mentioned anywhere in article at all?)

Re: Give it a title of your choosing
 

Why has this been moved to OffTopic from the thread where this was 100% topical?
Who the **** moderates these things??? :confused:

Re: Give it a title of your choosing
 

worse things have happend. mybee the mod likes Putin or it was to political...or this mod got orders directly frim creml...cremel...is it cremln?

my veiw is the users should moderate them selfs without interference by governments .

jolla users vs putin messing with sail would be a title as good as any...

Re: Give it a title of your choosing
 

Indeed. Most of them started by people not voicing their discontent while the things were not that bad. By the time they got too bad it was too late.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salami_tactics
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boiling_frog

Re: Give it a title of your choosing
 

salami?

its obvious that KGB is restored and infeltrated TMO. The question is: what influence do they got within jolla...

Re: Moderators are going cookoo
 

though it was offtopic at some point.
But again if someone at forum points out at some one as evil just coz there is word Russian there and I do state it as i see it not right, my topic goes to offtopic but no one warns this guy or asks him to rephrase, choose other wording.
<edit:
I would wonder how many "WOWS" and "LIKES" we'll get if they would make deal with let's say US or Europe and no one would think of NSA or all other under surveillance programs, but sure if it's Russian - it's evil.
:edit>
I'm actually originally is Russian and while I can agree that Mr.P is not nicest guy, but people judging whole country and people in it just because of action of some small % which has more power doesn't make it me feel better when we are compared to evil (let's bring cold-war era movies where all evil guys are russian mobs and communists)

As well in other thread person asked kind of oftopic question with F word and when i provided answer, it was deleted but the question was not.

Maybe i'm not most pro-jolla guy, but i have all rights to say what i think on same topic or at least check the questions i answer to and the reason. But no... you just delete or move messages. What a nice move...
It starts to smell like fish here. Next thing would be what? Paid topics or pre-moderated topics?

Re: Moderators are going cookoo
 

racist is a strong word to use..
and I don't think it quite applies..
likewise Russia isn't a "communist" state any longer..
nor is it quite "fascist"..
a "bully-state"? ...that depends which side of the (world) fence you sit on...
there is the "capitalist" (democracy is dead ...now consumeristic purchase power rules) or everyone else opposing capitalism.
I'm not attempting to be political or incite..
but the logic of the dynamic is apparent regardless of the side of the fence.
Look at how the American gov't behaved when suddenly there was a communist state on their doorstep (Cuba) about to get nuclear weapons...
and that was a long way away from D.C.
there was "the bay of pigs" ...
there were heightened nuclear tensions..
to the point where the world was hovering over pressing launch buttons...
and then there was the embargo has lasted a verrrryyyy long time
Fast-forward...capitalism makes great headway...
pushing to the point where many previous communist states are now capitalist..
pushing to the point where the "bread-basket" of Russia (Ukraine) wishes to join...
mere miles from the Russian capital, Moscow...
How would the American's treat the exact ... self-same situation..
It is self-preservation ..plain and simple.
Looking at the present and past is the only way to let crap go and look toward a future.
I'm not condoning anything..
I believe everyone should simply get along and be friends.

But about "-ists"
Technically Russia and russians are not a "race"
in this sitch calling the individ. a "party-est"
or "nation-ist" ..(however it may be grammatically incorrect)
is closer to what you may wish to call him..

Re: Moderators are going cookoo
 

https://firstlook.org/theintercept/2...tores-spyware/

Im sure russins trying to do the same.

Re: Moderators are going cookoo
 

It's being thrown around like patriarchy, catch all term for anything certain group that 'can't be racist/sexist by definition' perceives as offensive/harassment. Sadly words lose meaning this way.

I'm afraid the only forum where you can get free speech nowadays is 8chan (4chan is now as heavily moderated as tmo has become recently, on 8ch you can open a new board (its actual name is infinitechan) and you become the mod/admin, only child porn is removed by admins)

@Rauha: MH17 - do you call kalashnikov the biggest murderer in the world? Even very russo-phobic news outlet here cited views that while buk launcher that was used came from russia it is unlikely russian operators did it, they would be trained well enough to not mistake the plane, so most likely 'rebels' are responsible. When brics joins up giving jolla a spin, will you be bringing up tibet and apartheid?

@FOSS fanbois who still are mad at jolla about silica, with it open, jolla would have no reason to discuss with anyone, as russians would just clone it and have their jolla clones for free. It was a good business decision after all

Re: Moderators are going cookoo
 

I have a lot to say, but it;s too political. To summirize while i think Russian policy is bad, i still would say that a lot of other countries policy is not the best. Just think of USA making revolutions and changing goverments as they wish and while making deals with Islamic countries involved in terrorism as it's profits, they send ships and troops every [place and reason they want(now even worse with the drones). It's not makes Russian policy right, all i just want to say that both parts are terribly wrong.
But the main point is media war. Maybe you do not pay attention, but a lot of Russians suffer from it. And believe me while sanctions do not harm rich Russian top people who do what they please, it hurts regular guys, which mostly have nothing to do. So they not only suffer from dictatorship politics inside country they as well blamed by world. It's not like poeple can just switch him you know how they'll end up. But they are screwed with him and world around intead of help, jsut make it worst for those common guys.
But yet again we are back to hear about Russian and hackers and mobs, while if certain Russian person made something good(scientist or sports) it's this person. You see what i mean? If somebody makes something bad — all russians bad, if somebody made something good, he is good and better not to mention from where he came from.

Re: Moderators are going cookoo
 

https://i.chzbgr.com/maxW500/7876318464/h57B160BE/

(Disclaimer: I am not responsible for the spelling.)

Re: Moderators are going cookoo
 

Agree. Not many people notice it, but I was born in Russia - though I have been living abroad for the last, what is it, 10 years? Feels like half of my life, though I may be exaggerating. And, while Internet allows to keep in touch with people staying inside Russia, the same contact highlights the difference in propaganda we are consuming.

Yes, Russians may be close to the level of Chinese when issues of piracy and hacking are considered, and that's crime. But there is the other side of the coin, too: they develop ReactOS, open-source replacement of Windows. There should be no surprise when they want to use something different (like Sailfish OS) instead of Android: just like North Korea with Red-Hat Linux, they fiercely want to avoid relying on their would-be enemies. I am not emphasizing the Yota because their devices have "usual" software (Android) and afaik closed hardware.

I am not proud of current policy of Russian Federation. I am not proud of the last several decades of politics within Russia and USSR - I have not seen USSR, but I have heard of its slow decay. But that does not mean that I will forget the past, or not care about the future, of Russia and whatever it becomes part of. But I am not going to destroy myself in vain attempts to interfere with the juggernaut of destruction that was unleashed somehow within these vast lands. I am away; that means that I hopefully do not feed it, by taxes or otherwise; and maybe, some time later I will be knowledgeable enough to interfere with the war and fire... It is not going to get better; it can easily get worse, within the growing crisis of overpopulation, lack of resources, pollution, deforestation and global heating. The only way forward is space; it would relieve the pressure on natural resources...

And now that's entirely off-topic. Trying to get back on topic: I am hoping that most people remember that best chess players and ice skaters used to be from USSR ;-) Maybe, still are, but I am not following world championships closely.

We are between the fire and ice/Мы между пламенем и льдом,
As iceberg overturns, not once,/И айсберг вновь перевернётся,
And will in fire such we survive/Но выжить ли в пожаре том
As above the Earth in flare will rise?/Что над Землёю факелом взовьётся?

Somewhere tiger stretches muscles,/Где-то разминает мышцы тигр,
Somewhere slivers, splinters gather,/Где-то собираются осколки,
But who knows possibly the words/Но кто знает найдутся ли слова
To raise majestic swan from glass pieces?/Чтоб из стекла поднялся величавый лебедь?
Somewhere lion swings his paw/Где-то машет лапой лев,
And wounds accidentally his ear,/Что сам себе поранил ухо,
Somewhere desert prairie sways,/Где-то колышется пустынная степь,
Who knows who will rise out of it?/Кто знает кто из неё поднимется?
Somewhere poisoned net is spread out/Где-то раскинута отравленная сеть
Of jellyfish, the old lion mane,/Медузы старой львиной гривы,
Somewhere close by a barracuda/Где-то рядом барракуда
Against neighbours has a grudge,/На соседей точит зубы,
And a penguin rests/И отдыхает пингвин
Amidst volcano graves,/Среди вулканов могил,
As koala chews leaves.../А коала жуёт листву...
Will it turn into anteater/Обернтся ли она в ехидну
In the approaching world war?/В грядущую мира войну?

Re: Moderators are going cookoo
 

I'm not sure if this is now the generic jolla banter thread, or mods going cookoo(that's not even spelled right), but in case it is:
http://th07.deviantart.net/fs7/200H/...Ripper1331.jpg
Wow, people were joking it's been a year since open sourcing which everybody touts as a godly thing, yet no effects, then this happens, AND jolla accepts it (any such google stories, always heard it was rather dump every big release, pulling not recommended, unless your own leg)
https://blog.jolla.com/developer-spo...lfish-browser/

Re: Sailfishto be official Mobile OS
 

You are delusional, if you think that Russian goverment does something without Putin's approval or without it at least being part of his siloviki inner circle.

Anyways, I think this did it for me. Won't post any more. Sickening thing. People get a hissy fit when Apple/Google/whatever close a line of code, but are just happy when another corporation tries to get money from brutal and bloody autocracy.

Or go gaga when Googel/Apple/whatever are forced to co-operate with NSA, but are happy when another corporation willingly and voluntarily go in bed with FSB/GRU//siloviki/KGB thugs.


Total lack of any morality

:(

Re: Give it a title of your choosing
 

Agreed. The original post questions the political influence of the Russia/Jolla collaboration therefore this discussion was completely on-topic.

It's not the first time I've seen censorship on TMO. I may strongly disagree with many posts I see but everyone is entitled to their opinion, however controversial. In my opinion, censorship is unhealthy and goes against the free software spirit which our community strongly follows.

I think all moderators should be reminded of their role. Perhaps someone can raise this at the next council meeting.

Re: Sailfishto be official Mobile OS
 

Where's the quote??? I love how you regurgitate US propaganda and in next sentence claim only russia(putin himself in every action as evidenced by your post) uses propaganda. Iran - surely coup de etat to dismantle democratic PM was right, doesn't matter US created the current regime in the end. Iran signing with Jolla, you will shout about Nukes supported by jolla? (just look at your news reporters happy to report how leader of NK executed his wife by a barrage of missiles smuggled by midgets from south, as they have no such capability, just to correct themself next week in smaller font and somewhere down 'wife of dear leader was seen alive, we would like to apologize, apparently midgets were not involved'). If morality for you is defined by propaganda you're being served (I know people in eastern poland are totally russo-phobic, can understand you living next to the russian border to some extent), then just admit it, putin is literally hitler, their interests in the Crimea are not important, US never defended their interests militarily (bay of pigs?)

Re: Give it a title of your choosing
 

AMEN brother, heavy modding (caring about people who get offended by stuff, I get offended by that, please revert) is slowly killing internet (like google did pushing for 'ads are acceptable on the internet' ********, now web without adblock sucks), noone stood to them and now adblock is required. Hope we learned that lesson, but again, in every community where you don't have protection of speech written into the rules, you end up with modding and censorship to bigger or smaller extent. Is free speech FOSS halal? Probably more than moderating because we don't liek some views (he claimed putin isn't devil, got triggered)

Re: Moderators are going cookoo
 

The only good way out for jolla: hey guise, russians have been looking for an open source OS, and found nemo and our UI working quite well, will use nemo, but we refused them UI until they withdraw from ukraine, they said no, so we close the jolla and nemo projects, and ask everyone to reupload all and every piece of code they have downloaded, only this way we can stop hitler 2.0 (read: putin). We're still waiting for words of approval from stallman, he will download our blog page shortly

Re: Moderators are going cookoo
 

Sooo.
I get that there is sensitivity to the Russian situation in Crimea and Ukraine..with the recent ww2 commemorative ride through Poland...with increasing sorties to close and even in North American, and British Airspace by military aircraft. Sure ..I get all that... and there are many upset as a consequence too who are Russian who take a natural offense to being tarred with the same brush as their gov't is currently.
Me being Canadian...may as well call me a Yankee-lovin' , baby-seal-clubber...it isn't true..but hey..there will always be those "telling" you, me, everyone "exactly" who and what we are. (..then there is the fact that seal and whale hunt is part of the tradition of the people of my country...the meat is eaten and the skins used , the blubber used for multiple applications, even the bones...as well..the cull is no different to the deer, moose, and elk culls...it keeps the populations healthy, prevents over population, disease and keeps the gene pool fit. Not to mention..as a consequence of the seal cull...fish stocks aren't dangerously depleted by the seals...and while on the topic of culls....tell me they don't need to do rabbit and kangaroo culls in Australia to keep from having an ecological catastrophe?....so the situation is..like so many situations...more complicated than a surface glance...and frankly no one seems to have an aversion to veal ..or cracking an chicken egg on a bowl for baking or cooking...but you put that baby cow in front of you...or that cute baby chick and at least while everyone is forced to look at them...you won't be eating any veal or eggs eh? ...so ...yeah...things are always more complicated...)

So anyway.......back to my point..
a-hem..
I COMPLETELY understand why this thread was moderated.
It is absolutely crystal to me.

But all the upset and emotion should be set aside.
And let's just look closer at the whole situation...
Since I find it absolutely fascinating ...
like watching snowflakes fall...
absolutely incredible in the scale and scope of how things turn..
1stly - If it were any world power or any nation I would be equally intrigued..so there is no bias here ..no animosity...just fascination...
I know there are "incidents" great and small and I'm only mentioning a few..and going backwards time-wise too.
Most recently...
Russia and Jolla are going to do business.
Why?
Jolla can provide an alternate to google, apple etc..
Why?
Just days earlier interestingly ..Snowden releases info concerning the american virus which was to be implemented in google app stores to infect and spy on pretty much everybody as a result of going to the app store...
And I am absolutely sure there is more than just that little tidbit of spy-work that was released... that we don't know about...
I don't find it surprising that any nation would want an alternative.
That's just the latest...seemingly small international bit of news..compared to say...
the bigger incidents...
The troubles twixt Ukraine , separatists , and Russia
the russian military aircraft flying close or crossing british, american and other national airspace...
and before that Crimea...
and before that..well things were brewing ...
but when did things really go weird...or sour...or whatever one wishes to call it...when did the heat turn up on the international stage.
Well they were cooling the last 10 years... but nothing really out of place with the norm...I think the pivotal time ..and I think I can pin it to the day ..when things started to go "funny" and seemingly unpredictable...
Sunday 23 June 2013
I'm not sure if anyone really has thought about it much.
But does everybody believe that any nation on the planet who took Snowden in for as long as the Russian gov't has...and has the power to keep him out of the american reach...and isn't intimidated ..wouldn't insist that as a caveat to Snowden staying...that he had to allow the Russian gov't access to all the files in his possession? That they wouldn't be able to get copies of it anyway? That ANY nation on the planet wouldn't likewise be as curious as the proverbial cat and want to have those files for bedtime reading too?
I just find it interesting that Russia is just one step ahead of what has been coming down the pipe.
I blame no nation for attempting to survive the machinations of another.
Putin's oblivious disinterest in Snowden from the start...
Is like a bidder at an auction who REALLY wants an item ..but tells the other bidders that he has no interest in a piece of junk...
poker-face.
Call him a bully ..call him ...whatever..
And I think what has been garnered from that Snowden info. has most definitely made a pro intrigue expert such as Putin..into a boxer who now knows exactly when to side-step and dodge a punch very well.
I think the russian gov't is doing exactly what it must considering the information at it's disposal.

Re: Moderators are going cookoo
 

So according to jolla, Putin & Co can only add content in russia in their own jolla area. No special code allowed, no memes of Putin allowed and nothing is basically allowed. Will be interesting to see what will be shipped with the russian phones :D

http://revolution-news.com/wp-conten...62972767_n.jpg

Re: Give it a title of your choosing
 

Are you serious? AFAIK, this happens twice a year or so.
And as in any civilized life, there are forum rules too (and yes, this is a sailfish forum too, I believe):

"selling out to the devil (aka Putin)" clearly is insulting and a personal attack.
Not sure the devil will tolerate that, he might be after you now... ;)

[edit] actually on topic: Human Rights Watch report on NGOs in Russia.
At least so far, nobody is considered "foreign agent" here on TMO. ;)

Re: Give it a title of your choosing
 

I have my suspicions ;)

Re: Moderators are going cookoo
 

Oh come on guys..
Really...
Everyone knows the "foreign agent" is Dave...

Re: Moderators are going cookoo
 

Re: Moderators are going cookoo
 

Oh dear. You have just broken the rule #1: Never say aloud what everyone knows.

Re: Moderators are going cookoo
 

Oh man, I really wouldn't want to be in the shoes of the decision makers at jolla right now. On one hand, full open sourcing is gonna bring a LOT of FOSS love and publicity, maybe the haters will finally drop it, people finally can contribute, tons of good stuff. On the other... 5 minutes after open sourcing someone will clone their silica repo and call it rusalka (to keep the water related naming convention) and russia can hire a few lawyers to find how to break any 'license buying' parts of the deal, goodbye jolla? Sure, they would be mad thinking they can replace the experts from jolla by some developers thrown at it out of a sudden (especially ones working for government, not that I would suggest russia lacks programming talent, on the contrary, but their knowledge will be totally on different level, this I'm sure), but it is risky, can't pull that down from the internet really (can jolla keep control over their codebase ala google? Just drop the code every now and then and decide on their own which pulls get included? The clone would need to work on compatibility if they want to use already existing apps, then again if BRICS do go for sailfish they can throw a lot of resources into that and most apps on jolla are open source, so cloning is scary). IF they open source fully, except for kudos, there will be this weird thing for the narrative spinners: the devil putin made jolla see the right way, good luck with explaining that (anyone else reminded of the 'What have the Romans ever done for us' skit? :D)

oh, btw, anyone else find it funny that sailfish is female in russian? seemed very weird (english/german refer by genderless 'it', but the russian text clearly was refering to female/using female pronouns when talking about it, so weird, edit2: correction it is 'he' in polish, maybe this is causing it to be so weird for me)

Re: Moderators are going cookoo
 

Well holy freaking **** it happened! Official jolla statement about open sourcing all they can (excluding third party stuff they can't), and here we go people bring up strawman based on days old news, reality just hit hardcore levels. Open sourcing was definitely forced on jolla (russians would be stupid to accept closed source from west and deemed it safe), deal with satan brings good to the whole FOSS community, world is not black and white (b-b-but our narrative, surely jolla is to blame for geopolitics, jolla literally kills ukrainians), so hard to accept, jeeez

Re: Moderators are going cookoo
 

Well.
Astonishment.
Yup.
don't blame any nation for wanting nothing closed in this day and age.
transparency is a must have.
Obviously jolla really really rrrrreeaaaalllyy badly needs this business.
Well I can't say this is bad news...
nor good.. yet.
It bodes good though...open sourcing and all.

I must say szopin...
It is confounding to say the least.
Wait and see I guess..
see what and how things unfold....

Re: Moderators are going cookoo
 

Can we get an apology from bockersjv? UK is good, not evil:
http://bgr.com/2015/05/28/imessage-f...ts-encryption/
Has the UK and MI5 become worse than the devil himself?

Re: Moderators are going cookoo
 

hehe...
y'know I was literally just listening to robert scheer (not bad at lectures actually...pretty captivating fellow..good orator..I'd put him right in third behind Noam Chomsky who is in 2nd ....and the great of greats....the quiet and little known canadian tech/ media professor/ philosopher ....Marshall McLuhan...who taught and lectured ever before the tech was omnipresent now...and said very simply and eloquently back in the day confounding everyone such very alarming, provocative things that made one think, to question...like..."Today the tyrant rules not by club or fist, but, disguised as a market researcher, he shepherds his flocks in the ways of utility and comfort."
and one of his famous statements ..at least famous here :D ...to a question by a pupil who asked " What was the "Message" that was being conveyed by the tech of the day"..by radio..by t.v. ...etc...and what it forebode for the future...and the answer was absolutely sublime ...transcending years to be valid anytime past or future...he answered.."What was the message? ...Why ..the "Medium" is the message...." which... upon such revelatory inspiration prompted himself to sequester his person away to ponder and write a fabulous book titled as such...one of the best reads ever frankly...actually here is a re-enactment of the moment in lecture when he had a light-bulb moment...https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H9BkBWklf8I...and as well there is so much written and audio and video footage of this honored canadian philosopher....very worthwhile studying him....actually here is an excellent little chit-chat...https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ImaH51F4HBw...)

anyway...back to scheer...and I was listening to one of his lectures...
called um..."Free Thought and Self Censorship" excellent lecture...dealing with government, corporation, spying, etc...very current..very well done.
Sooo what bearing does all the words I just put here?
Well ..it simply reminds me of the ongoing topic here...:D

Re: Moderators are going cookoo
 

Yeah, the only newspaper in UK during the whole Iraq war-on-mass-murderer-that-resulted-in-mass-murder that had the guts to not self-censor and call it invasion (guardian and the rest just used: operation or intervention) was The Independent, surely we are all on the good side of history. Whole reason for war was debunked as fabricated by the good side, shiiite, but jesus told him it was right (in the old testament we had similar, murder all except the young women for procreation, god said so). The smugness of people who are responsible (surely more than illegitimately 'voted' evil, at least russians 'can't change a thing', because it's not the good democracy from the west), still believing in the moral high ground their newspapers tell them they hold... And then their plans backfire, Iran (screw democracy, democracy supports shah)? Iraq (mission accomplished, ISIS is just a fad, same with osama really)? Nah, we're bringing peace and love (edit: and just to be crystal clear, in no way am defending russian gov in regards to ukraine, screw them for that, but stating they are satan because your newspaper said so is hypocritical at best, all governments are satans)

Re: Moderators are going cookoo
 

Totally agree, and I wouldn't stop there... with just governments...but add to the pile the media and corporations....
the worst part is...they are all evil, and yet they aren't.
Which means for the aware...that no one can be trusted to be wholly honest, nor dishonest, nor true, nor liars...there is much shadowy hidings...
Which subsequently means I cannot believe nor disbelieve the media, corporations and government.
This is not a disillusionment, jaded nature, nor anything pertaining to "myself" ..but understanding cultivated from quietly watching both truth, falsity, and lies come from all sides...from all of them...having the audacity and obvious expectation that I will have an attention span the length of a gnat and quickly forget...so they can do it over and over and over again stating it is the "1st" time such a thing ever occurred...
I no longer get snagged by the rhetoric ..
nor get heated passionately over such false behaviour.
I've seen enough over my time ....
I enjoy visiting other locales...
but primarily that is my reasoning why I live in a paradise ...on an island ...at the edge of the world...where I can peacefully carry on an do my work and live happily away from tumults incited by the "Powers" that be.

Re: Moderators are going cookoo
 

http://blog.starpointllp.com/blog/?p=4189
Even google with all its democratic bribing, sorry, lobbying (the only democratic way) lost to the banks' greed. Does not bode well for Jolla (then again, minister can keep an agreement with a company, visa will backstab fifa hoping it gets some points in return, hey now we're the good guys, we're sorry)

Re: Moderators are going cookoo
 

Hm..
speaking of visa....
wonder if those naughty fifa boys are going to have their air-mile points revoked :D

Re: Moderators are going cookoo
 

Can't be bothered to create a BGR account to reply there so I will do it here.

Not true. The public got the vote on May 7th. It is their fault that they threw it away.

“Toute nation a le gouvernement qu’elle mérite.” (“Every nation has the government it deserves.”)
Joseph de Maistre (1753-1821)