maemo.org - Talk - So Long and Thanks for all the Fish

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- SailfishOS (https://talk.maemo.org/forumdisplay.php?f=52)

- - So Long and Thanks for all the Fish (https://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=95698)

Re: So Long and Thanks for all the Fish

Well, here is an good article, that answers a goodload of the speculations in this thread, including my own

http://techcrunch.com/2015/07/07/mob...r-of-business/

Re: So Long and Thanks for all the Fish

With MeeGo and Nokia we saw that having both, the OS and hardware inhouse doesn't attract 3rd party manufacturers to license the OS, as they had to compete with the license giver in terms of hardware.

Jolla has always stated that licensing Sailfish OS and thus gaining market share has been the goal all the time. The design of the phone and the tablet hardware were a necessity to get Sailfish OS to a market where nobody was interested in licensing a so far unknown OS.

Now that the situation has changed, and there is growing interest by 3rd party manufacturers to license Sailfish OS, it is just a logical next step to pursue that road. Imagine that, to have an Android-compatible system that does not force you to play by Google's rules.

By the way, no one ever said, that Sailfish OS is to become more closed due to the licensing strategy. The opposite has been stated and been reiterated always.

The press release sounds like the Mobile World Congress in Shanghai will be pretty interesting in terms of Jolla.

@nieldk: I don't understand your reasoning. Do you want Jolla to succeed, or to remain in a niche that cannot sustain a company?

Re: So Long and Thanks for all the Fish

totally understand @NielDK!
You deserve better information.

Reading the Techcrunch article gives the impression it has more info and is more on spot than jollas own announcement.

Again very vague communication that forces to try reading between the lines and heats speculation...

Re: So Long and Thanks for all the Fish

Quote:

Originally Posted by pycage (Post 1475980)

Probably not the best example in terms of this forum.

Quote:

Originally Posted by pycage (Post 1475980)

Jolla has always stated that licensing Sailfish OS and thus gaining market share has been the goal all the time. The design of the phone and the tablet hardware were a necessity to get Sailfish OS to a market where nobody was interested in licensing a so far unknown OS.

They could have chosen exisiting hardware. Would have loved them to continue the development of SailfishOS on N9. But that work wasnt even released I believe (I could be wrong),

Quote:

Originally Posted by pycage (Post 1475980)

Now that the situation has changed, and there is growing interest by 3rd party manufacturers to license Sailfish OS, it is just a logical next step to pursue that road. Imagine that, to have an Android-compatible system that does not force you to play by Google's rules.

You are very wrong, Google still have a major role to play there. Sure, unofficial Android apps can be used and installed, outside Playy store. However, Google completely control Play store, and can easily lock out unwanted devices.

Quote:

Originally Posted by pycage (Post 1475980)

By the way, no one ever said, that Sailfish OS is to become more closed due to the licensing strategy. The opposite has been stated and been reiterated always.

That is yet to be seen. I cant say anything that proves the opposite. But I fear the opposite, thus I started this thread

Quote:

Originally Posted by pycage (Post 1475980)

The press release sounds like the Mobile World Congress in Shanghai will be pretty interesting in terms of Jolla.

Indeed

Quote:

Originally Posted by pycage (Post 1475980)

@nieldk: I don't understand your reasoning. Do you want Jolla to succeed, or to remain in a niche that cannot sustain a company?

They cant stay in a nice, I completely agree. And no, I want them to succeed with our without own hardware. I will support them as far as I can. But I dislike the disrespect they had had for developers and that they have mainly supported TOH development.
Even Nokia supported developers much more.

Re: So Long and Thanks for all the Fish

Just interesting quotes from article:

Quote:

Update: Asked directly whether the new Jolla company was committed to making new hardware Saarnio told TechCrunch he can confirm “it is committed” to building new devices but added: “There’s a limitation that the company is not yet established so there’s a plan to start producing it. I personally believe they will start producing smart hardware, smartphones or smart devices, in the future. That’s the plan and the intention.”

The scope of the new Jolla devices company may also be broader than the first wave Jolla, which has brought one smartphone to market and is in the midst of building a tablet. “This new company will have quite a lot of freedom to do all kinds of handsets. And I think what we are looking for is to create a young brand with this that’s able to expand to different interesting areas and utilize the existing hardware ecosystem with this,” Saarnio added.

Quote:

Meanwhile Saarnio said Jolla will have an announcement about India partnerships coming next week, at Mobile World Congress Shanghai, with “major corporations in terms of device licensing and other ecosystem partnerships” — adding: “This should be the biggest announcement so far from Jolla.”

He couched the forthcoming India announcement as a “proof of concept” for Jolla’s BRICs-focused business model, adding:. “I don’t see any reason why we would not be able to expand this licensing agreement to multiple device vendors and multiple media companies and multiple ecommerce companies. I do see that the market is really looking for an alternative at the moment and companies are ready to take actions on that.”

Re: So Long and Thanks for all the Fish

Quote:

Originally Posted by nieldk (Post 1475982)

Probably not the best example in terms of this forum.

Why not? This is the story that many people on this forum know.

Quote:

Originally Posted by nieldk (Post 1475982)

They could have chosen exisiting hardware. Would have loved them to continue the development of SailfishOS on N9. But that work wasnt even released I believe (I could be wrong),

The N9 and N950 work from Jolla was released by granting public access to the hardware adaptation repository for these devices. That's why you can run some versions of Sailfish on the N9. Unfortunately, the N9 is stuck with its outdated kernel version.
Anyway, Jolla has worked to run Sailfish OS on existing hardware such as the Nexus 5. The N9 and N950, however, became soon a deadend due to the lack of drivers, as there is no well performing Android hardware adaptation for the N9.

Quote:

Originally Posted by nieldk (Post 1475982)

Amazon, for instance, is making Android tablets and settop boxes without Play Store.
Not everybody needs Play Store when there are alternatives. I stopped using Play Store
the day my only Google-ified Android device, the Nexus 7, was turned useless by Android 5.0. I don't miss Play Store, but I regret having bought apps there, because they are tied to Google devices.

So, if an alternative store comes preinstalled, and it has good content, then why would someone need Play Store? Amazon IMHO has proven the opposite, and AFAIK the Kindle Fire Tablets and Fire TVs are not selling that badly.

And there's no Play Store in China either, or is there by now?

Quote:

Originally Posted by nieldk (Post 1475982)

That is yet to be seen. I cant say anything that proves the opposite. But I fear the opposite, thus I started this thread

I can understand that. But it's probably not a good idea to start a thread based on fear, uncertainty, and doubt. :)
Do not fear the opposite. Most non-UI stuff is already being developed in the open on github (under the Nemo Mobile disguise), and some UI stuff, such as the browser got opened, too. And it doesn't look like the (admittedly, slow) process of opening has ended yet.

Quote:

Originally Posted by nieldk (Post 1475982)

Maybe what you felt as disrespect towards developers was a lack of resources for proper developer support? Nokia had a lot more people dedicated to support developers.
At Jolla, OTOH, the developer support is given by the busy Sailfish OS developers themselves, sometimes in their spare time.

Re: So Long and Thanks for all the Fish

With all that noise, just hope to see a FairPhone2 with sfos, that would be great!

Re: So Long and Thanks for all the Fish

In my humble opinion we need improve the OS and more native apps than new hardware.

Re: So Long and Thanks for all the Fish

Quote:

Originally Posted by nieldk (Post 1475982)

That is yet to be seen. I cant say anything that proves the opposite. But I fear the opposite, thus I started this thread

Indeed! While I have (multiple times) said that you can license software while keeping it open, there are not yet any indications of Jolla choosing to go this way.

Some sort of clarification about this from Jolla would be very welcome, as I can see a nontrivial number of contributors from the open source community, that are not satisfied with the current closed source mobile landscape and might be willing to help improve a truly open mobile OS.

Re: So Long and Thanks for all the Fish

Quote:

Originally Posted by pycage (Post 1475989)

Why not? This is the story that many people on this forum know.

The N9 and N950 work from Jolla was released by granting public access to the hardware adaptation repository for these devices. That's why you can run some versions of Sailfish on the N9. Unfortunately, the N9 is stuck with its outdated kernel version.
Anyway, Jolla has worked to run Sailfish OS on existing hardware such as the Nexus 5. The N9 and N950, however, became soon a deadend due to the lack of drivers, as there is no well performing Android hardware adaptation for the N9.

Amazon, for instance, is making Android tablets and settop boxes without Play Store.
Not everybody needs Play Store when there are alternatives. I stopped using Play Store
the day my only Google-ified Android device, the Nexus 7, was turned useless by Android 5.0. I don't miss Play Store, but I regret having bought apps there, because they are tied to Google devices.

So, if an alternative store comes preinstalled, and it has good content, then why would someone need Play Store? Amazon IMHO has proven the opposite, and AFAIK the Kindle Fire Tablets and Fire TVs are not selling that badly.

And there's no Play Store in China either, or is there by now?

I can understand that. But it's probably not a good idea to start a thread based on fear, uncertainty, and doubt. :)
Do not fear the opposite. Most non-UI stuff is already being developed in the open on github (under the Nemo Mobile disguise), and some UI stuff, such as the browser got opened, too. And it doesn't look like the (admittedly, slow) process of opening has ended yet.

Maybe what you felt as disrespect towards developers was a lack of resources for proper developer support? Nokia had a lot more people dedicated to support developers.
At Jolla, OTOH, the developer support is given by the busy Sailfish OS developers themselves, sometimes in their spare time.

Amazons fire OS is ****. So is there app store.

I think realistically Jolla are simply stuck in the middle of being completely open with the community, but at the same time don't want to constantly let down the community.

Also if Sailfish OS becomes a seperate entity from Jolla then maybe they open source more to allow the community to speed up development. Its why libhybris was opened up wasn't it?(unless I've miss interpreted the blog)