Re: Sailfish 2.0.0 Saimaa
 

Yes, the music was not "I'm a little teapot" but theme music from the Jeopardy tv game show! lol

Re: Sailfish 2.0.0 Saimaa
 

As I looked at the three versions of sailfish in the video, It occurred to me that it would nice if the background of the app tray, instead of just being black, could be linked to the ambience.

Re: Sailfish 2.0.0 Saimaa
 

Or you can install the patch in the repos that makes it semi-transparent :)

Re: Sailfish 2.0.0 Saimaa
 

Hi Bundyo. Any chance you can provide a screen shot of how it looks? Thanks!

Re: Sailfish 2.0.0 Saimaa
 

I'll leave that ambiguity hanging. :D

Re: Sailfish 2.0.0 Saimaa
 

I don't really know what to think of this Sailfish OS version 2.

It looks like the UI team didn't solve the problems of the version 1, but replaced them with others, so it is difficult to compare. But generally I find it "working" (as in I can still do things with it), but more painfully.

I could take a lot of examples, but will limit here to a few.

Quick app shortcuts:
* SF1 : lockscreen was almost empty and not that useful, but you could get back here at any time to use the pulley menu for the quick actions, and you also had a row of icons at the bottom of the homescreen to launch app.
* SF2 : lockscreen looks better, but once you switch to homescreen you cannot get back the pulley menu with the quick actions, and the row of icons has also disappeared. Only way to start an app is now to pull the full app grid, and find in this mess the one you need.

Events view:
* SF1 : events view was missing a lot of things, but was always reachable from a bottom swipe, and as an overlay on the screen, so without needing to exit the current application. Some patches were needed to add options toggles to make it even faster to use (like to activate GPS or bluetooth while not exiting the app that needs them)
* SF2 : events view is now a lot useful, but not reachable directly (I activated the left swipe to reach it, but it is a pain when I happen to use the device with left hand). So checking something needs you to go back to homescreen then events view (or directly events view with left swipe), then get back to homescreen, try to find in which app you were before and click it to be back.

Indicators & time:
* SF1 : indicators and time were spreaded between homescreen and lockscreen and peaking, meaning you never really had everything visible at the same time. However they were using a big font and big icons to be readable. Peaking was nice as it was progressive, and a really small peaking movement was already showng all. The settings app was a quick fix, as it was showing what options were active, but this needed to have it always open.
* SF2 : now they are not spread between several screen, and are always visible, but they are so small, I had the hotspot draining the battery a whole day before noticing (Had it not drained battery, it still would be on). The settings app can not be used as a fix, as its cover now doesn't show anything. Also the peaking now has a threshold, needing a bigger movement to start to see the indicators.

Covers:
* SF1 : I'll like that and at the same time didn't... It was nice to use, but the small size of the cover meant nothing meaningful was really possible to show (like in messages, you have the two first words, which are usually "hi there"). The cover actions were limited (like refreshing a tweet feed, were you need to enter the app then, as the cover can't tell you much), but it was easy to use and not prone to mistake.
* SF2 : Now for most of the app it is even less useful: there is nothing show at all in the settings app. The clock app now shows the time with an analog clock (as it is now too small to read the status bar I think), so that only one alarm is shown, not several of them as before. The swipe cover have been replaced by small buttons, easy to miss but easy to trigger by error.

Sound :
* SF1: You could set the ring volume in ambiances. You configure it once, and then at any time, looking at the color of the phone you knew which was the ring volume. A quick switch in pulley menu of lockscreen allowed for complete mute. Volume rocker was used for apps volume. All easy to use
* SF2 : Everything is mixed : Volume rocker is used for ring volume, except if you have a music player running, as it would then be used for app volume, and ring volume can't be changed anymore, unless changing ambiance, or closing the app...
I got my phone this afternoon in mute (I must have pressed the rocker thinking a music app was running and it was not) while playing some music. I had no way to get back to the real volume except switching ambiances... This is really disturbing, and was working really well in SF1 with the ambiance principle. Now ambiances are only a wallpaper.

I could go on...

There are obviously good things coming with this version. But from a pure usability point of view, it looks like we are replacing the shortcoming of the first version with other limitations, and going further away from the vision depicted by Marc Dillon and Jaakko Roppola in the old speeches, about why buttons and status bar needed to go, and how it was faster to use it in a consistent swiping UI.
On some points, the UI of Symbian Belle of my old N8 is more efficient in daily use, did it have swiping for multitasking (and less bugs, but that is another problem).

After one year of daily use of my Jolla, I still like its interface better than android's, but I don't see the point were it will be really as painless to use as I expected will listening to old speeches.

We'll see how Jolla will respond to the threads in TJC about all those points (keeping in mind that there will always be some things that annoy some people and not others, me included).

Re: Sailfish 2.0.0 Saimaa
 

I have spent only a little time playing with Sailfish V2.0 on my Jolla, but I think I rather like it.

The 1.7 upgrade originally crashed on my Jolla, and since then the phone has been so unstable as to be useless. V2.0 does seem to have sorted that out, I haven't seen apps crashing without prompting, or the phone rebooting randomly.

Sadly, for some reason I cant set the ringer volume to any kind of useful level. Seriously, I struggle to hear it ringing 2m away in a normal room. In my bag, or the car, not a chance.
Even doing the 200% volume hack doesn't make it useable.

Maybe it's a hardware problem that just struck at a bad time, but I don't really feel like wasting any more hours trying to sort it out.

That means that if Jolla ever do send me my tablet, it'll likely go straight on ebay.

I have a Ubuntu MX4. Love the hardware, but the OS is more irritating when it's working that my Jolla is when it's rebooting.
(Please, somebody, somewhere, hack it to run Jolla !!)

Seriously wondering if there's a phone out there I won't hate within a week. I think I'll dust off one of my N900s and keep a hold on my cash and my sanity.

Rant over.

Re: Sailfish 2.0.0 Saimaa
 

Here (tablet one):

Re: Sailfish 2.0.0 Saimaa
 

Love it! Thanks!

Re: Sailfish 2.0.0 Saimaa
 

Does anyone of saimaa early adopters see a massive slowdown in android app opening ? Any of my droid apps takes minimum 8sec. to start. It's ridiculous considering that even the smalest apps, normaly starting in <1 ; 1-2 sec now launches even longer than the most heavy ones.

Re: Sailfish 2.0.0 Saimaa
 

Not that I can notice. As an example, opening andLess (a very simple music player) is almost instantaneous. Opening Amazon Store takes a few seconds, but that's normal and was always like that.

Maybe you have some patch/hack shutting down the alien-dalvik environment?

Re: Sailfish 2.0.0 Saimaa
 

So its rather due to some issue with my upgrade process. Due to some problems with complaining ssu when using version --dup I used zypper dist-upgrade. Also I had to readd my jolla account. I thought about that and no, there seem to be all needed processes in the background. I've restarted alien dalvik a few times and rebooted to be sure but with no difference.

Re: Sailfish 2.0.0 Saimaa
 

Has anyone else noticed Bluetooth Speakers disconnecting noticeably more often on Saimaa than before? I've seen this on both my Girlfriend's and my own Speakers. Same Model, though.

I did a full wipe (first one after years, had to because of those btrfs issues we all love) on the phone before installing.

Re: Sailfish 2.0.0 Saimaa
 

..and there is https://together.jolla.com/question/...imaa-released/

Re: Sailfish 2.0.0 Saimaa
 

After use SFOS 2 on my phone now a long time I still don't get it.

The UI is broken I always swipe wrong directions.

SFOS 1 was better.

Lets see how it works on tablet...

if I get a tablet that is....

Re: Sailfish 2.0.0 Saimaa
 

For me the update is called 1.1.9.30 called Eineheminlampi too not 2.0... is that normal?

PS: the update was very fast.

My selfanswer, 1.1.9.30 is like a preupdate for Saimaa.

Re: Sailfish 2.0.0 Saimaa
 

Great!!!

First came update 1.1.9.30 and after that ... Saimaa!

Saimaa is biggest lake in Finland and so is this update 4 Jolla...

Everything at update went smoothly and surprisingly fast...

Thänks for Jolla team!

Now i have to find out something bad to say about this update ;)

Re: Sailfish 2.0.0 Saimaa
 

Updating now.. I just hope this update solves the issue of closing (reopening) apps cause it is killing me.

Re: Sailfish 2.0.0 Saimaa
 

Updated. Seems to run much smoother. Transitions are better. Like the enhanced functionality of notifications screen. Thank you!

Re: Sailfish 2.0.0 Saimaa
 

so been using jolla for a while now..
I really do like the UI.. loving the new features in the newest update

I like how all the shortcuts are available in the events view..
but.. annoyed that u cant access events view from anywhere (unless you activate the left swipe which I dislike... and even when u do, when u swipe again u go back to home screen rather than the app u were just in)
also dislike that I cant access the pulley menu from homescreen (only available in lockscreen.. what? why?!)

also hating the fact that if its low on memory, its closing all my apps INCLUDING the app im currently in! GRR

and previous on sailfish1.0, the peak was used to look at the time/date/battery etc
now I have no use for the peek feature on sailfish2.0...
I like the swiping to get out of apps, but theres no real use of peeking anymore...
its not like im able to peek into other apps for info and un-peek to resume what I was doing.. so there really is no use for peeking anymore (me thinks anyways)

and I miss the swipe down to lock...
maybe they can implement two swipe downs to lock (rather than swipe down, and then click).. iv now resorted to locking with the power button now

Re: Sailfish 2.0.0 Saimaa
 

There is a patch for that ;)

Eh? The peek does the same thing as before! In fact it is more useful now as you have all the info neatly in one place.

There is a patch for that too!

Re: Sailfish 2.0.0 Saimaa
 

Yes, but it's far from perfect and is still inferior to the previous behavior. In Sailfish UI 1.x, one could be in the Events view and still be one swipe both from the app (bottom swipe) and from the multitasking view (side swipe). With this patch (however I'm thankful for it), it's either or.

No, it doesn't! I can't remember the last time I checked time using the peak gesture in Sailfish UI 2.0 - the tiny icons are barely readable and the usability is nowhere close to Sailfish UI 1.x.

Before, it was very easy to see the large time and large indicators. Now the tiny text and icons are very hard to see with the wallpaper behind it. And the online status undicator is also gone (plus bluetooth indicator is often missing even if bluetooth is on) - if Jolla decided to remove the current status bar altogether, I would barely notice.

If you add how apps now freeze while peaking (so slight peaking to see the Clock app cover while watching a video is no longer possible), it means the peak gesture is pretty much gone.

Re: Sailfish 2.0.0 Saimaa
 

Never been a fan of 'there's an app for that' or 'there's a patch for that' on my mobile.
Jolla should deliver 'more personalisation to adjust the system to your needs' by options. So far they have only announced more personalization in 2.0 but instead served changes only.

Peek looks cool to show off and underlined the geniality of the swipe based task switcher, how and why it is used should also be a matter related to personalization.

Re: Sailfish 2.0.0 Saimaa
 

But that basically means that they should implement every eventuality you could possibly imagine. Not only would they need a crystal ball to do that, they would also need infinite resources, both human (read: developers' time) and on the phone (software size).

I think it is good enough to provide an environment that is flexible enough to adjust to your needs. If the means of adjusting are provided off-the-shelf, good. If they require installing an additional piece of sooftware, also good.

Re: Sailfish 2.0.0 Saimaa
 

I don't get why can't the peeks fade animation be linear, there's always this delay, leaving an impression that the touchscreen is not responding. Feels broken and awkward to use.

As with lock screen swipe direction - horizontal swipe moves the clock up! I mean, visual cues are there for a reason, why decidedly confuse an user.

And right aligned headers - yuck!
App drawer doesn't really need a handle, least the ugly one.
Otherwise, v2 feels bearable.

Nice to have an accessible app drawer.

Also, i'd like to have a way to quickly switch between last two active apps without going through homescreen selector, it is most useful in customized android i have. Maybe bottomedgeswype?

Re: Sailfish 2.0.0 Saimaa
 

Some suggestions for Sailfishos2.0

Bring back app cover swipe action and hence event view Only can be pull out by swiping from the right/left edge

Bring back swiping vertically to unlock locked screen

App launcher can Only be pull up by swiping from bottom edge, hate that "handle" for app launcher

Re: Sailfish 2.0.0 Saimaa
 

Yes, but how else could you possibly know where the apps are? :)

Re: Sailfish 2.0.0 Saimaa
 

Of course it is not the point to have all possible combo's included including those that get the users stuck in uncontrollable OS with only factory reset as a way out.

I am quite happy with the eventualities Jolla had imagined for me.

Equally I was quite happy with Window XP for 8 years. I have been happy with Maemo 5 inteface for almost 6 years. When such loved systems get changed somewhat more people than the count that is willing to install patches and fixes get vocal. It happens all the time.

Jolla should have known when after only 2 short years with a limited user base on SFOS 1.0 they decided:

1) the previous UI was just not good enough

2) announce a version 2.0 with "even more personalization options"

-> really you should check this line from Jolla. I did not write it, Jolla did:

"There are now even more options enabling you to personalize the phone according to your needs. One example is defining the behavior of the top edge swipe gesture: you can choose to keep it as an ambience switcher or change it to close apps directly with one top swipe (like before)."

https://blog.jolla.com/sailfish-os-2-0-now-available/

Till here it all sounds great!

3) Then proceed to not offer any personalization options besides the off the record: go find some patch and hope it is not interfering with other patch.

Where does that leave me ?

There are only 4 directions to swipe from the borders.

Yet I can configure 1 only, somewhat to "like before" (if I recall correctly from my days testing 2.0 preview)

But not good enough for my needs, sorry.

2.0 displays panic football interface design that is usable but does not live up to the expectations of "Sailfish evolved".

Sure, people can now be delighted after discovering long awaited functionalities in the event view (like action shortcuts) but in truth, those are not special Jolla 2.0 virtues, but rather long awaited parts to complete the somewhat empty feeling Sailfish 1.0 just like the missing SIP interface functionality still is.
It is just like putting fresh sugar on an old cake that has been cut.

May I wonder if Mark Dillon is out somewhere attending meetings drawing the future of mobile in front of him laying a Sailfish OS 2.0 phone? And if so, how many patches does HE have installed?

Sorry for those that put their valuable time in creating and maintaining those patches but my I ask if you go here and vote?

https://together.jolla.com/question/...-to-the-users/




Besides that, I am pleased with what I have.

And to follow up on earlier notice about instability from users here: long time ago I have solved my battery problem causing reboots with the paper trick, later Polar Cell battery with tighter fit , solved my SIM holder issue causing pin code requests or sim disappearing (Jolla repair).

Throughout heavy daily use my somewhat battered Jolla has made good friends with my keys in jeans pocket.
Uptime 13 days 15hrs. And I did not do anything to babysit it.
Used Here maps on Android a lot. Also Firefox,
No patches installed.
Running 1.1.7.28 the Sailfish OS :) Rock solid. I will now think more than twice to upgrade this system.

Re: Sailfish 2.0.0 Saimaa
 

If that handle bothers you then you have too few problems in your life ;)

The only thing I would like changed in the home screen is that jumping of the first line of the launcher icons every time you touch the screen. That is not just aesthetics, it is causing serious issues with a patch I am trying to develop.

Re: Sailfish 2.0.0 Saimaa
 

The more possible options are implemented to suit every single user's 'needs', the more you end up with a system like KDE, where you can almost literally configure the behaviour of every pixel, but no matter which configuration options you choose, it never works well/looks good. If you like using such an incredible mess of a system, I don't know how to help anymore.

If the defaults aren't sane, not even a million configuration options will make it better. If you think a certain behaviour is clearly better than another one, and you can demonstrate this and explain why, that behaviour should be the default, and there should be no option to have it any other way.

Re: Sailfish 2.0.0 Saimaa
 

I don't see why it should be complicated.

The options are...

Q) Do you want a status bar or peeking?

Q) What panel is shown or action taken from each edge swipe?

Q) Do you want 'in panel' swipes in the home screen to shift panels or edge-only swipes so the UI is consistent?

Q) Allow multiple cover actions if available?

Surely it's not beyond Jolla's design capability to come up with an interactive method of configuring these gestures OR allow them to be configurable in a system friendly way that a 3rd party can configure rather than dangerous patching.

I know that nobody at Jolla seems to have a Mac, as evidenced by the shitty MTP/PTP and CalDAV support, but perhaps their designer could walk into an Apple store and check out the Trackpad system preferences applet where it lists all the actions and lets you configure the gesture associated plus shows you a nice animation of what it does. Jolla already have their tutorial app - just expand that into a system prefs.

That way, they can ship their phones in stupid mode so that people used to plain old Android aren't alienated and they can gradually discover gestures like we had in Sailfish 1.0, N9 and iOS is now exploring.

Re: Sailfish 2.0.0 Saimaa
 

Just as a note, I did recently receive some help with the Sailfish SDK from a guy at Jolla who had access to a Mac. (I know he was running OSX 10.8, so it was a Mac that hadn't been updated in a while...)

Re: Sailfish 2.0.0 Saimaa
 

I hear this all the time and I don't get it. Why is there an 'or'? I have a status bar and I use peeking all the time. The only thing that is lost is the online status (which I never used anyway but that's beside the point) and I expect that fixed at some point.

Judging by the way basic features are (not) implemented, it seems like nobody at Jolla has ever had a mobile phone. Things like a character/message counter in an SMS editor, forward an SMS, open/create a contact from a received call or SMS, even grouping contacts by categories, have been around for years, if not decades. Releasing a phone in 2013 with any of them missing is inexcusable. Releasing a phone in 2013 with all of them missing is beyond outrageous. Having all of them missing two years and a dozen or so firmware updates later lacks any words to describe it.

And those are things we had on basic phones in 1995, before we even start talking about "smart"phone features, such as the keyboard working the same way in every app, global copy&paste, select and search in the browser or an easy access to the menu without having to scroll all the way to the top of a long list.

My only explanation why this could happen at all is that either no one at Jolla has ever used a mobile phone before or they all have phones that actually work and no one is eating their own dog food.

That is actually an excellent idea.

Re: Sailfish 2.0.0 Saimaa
 

This is one reason why there is an 'or':

Sailfish UI 1.0 - slight peaking:
http://i.imgur.com/hPwTToG.png

Sailfish UI 2.0 - slight peaking:
http://i.imgur.com/VKy624u.png

Here's the other reason (not counting all the states in between):

Sailfish UI 1.0 - finished peaking:
http://i.imgur.com/fm8btgr.png

Sailfish UI 2.0 - finished peaking:
http://i.imgur.com/2JyjPZW.png

It's not that hard to spot the difference (the first is peaking, the second is just a static status bar of SFOS 2.0).


Source: This video by tnkglr and my phone (+the screenshot app by Coderus).

EDIT: I wanted to recreate the exact number of icons in the status area, but the Bluetooth icon wasn't shown at the time when I checked it (so I thought Bluetooth was off) yet it appeared in time to be on the screenshot and I didn't notice before uploading. Great...

Re: Sailfish 2.0.0 Saimaa
 

Youre just right there!!
With SFOS 2 the status bar is so teeny I have to hold the device really really close my eyes to see even the time!

Re: Sailfish 2.0.0 Saimaa
 

Oh yes, I forgot that you have to peek the whole 1 cm from the edge to see the status bar:

Attachment 37885

(I have this patch installed to illustrate the UI's flexibility to those crying for a big clock. Not that I need it even with my old eyes.)

Re: Sailfish 2.0.0 Saimaa
 

Yup. The status bar on my Android phone is so tiny, I almost never use it to check the time either. I instead use a big, beautiful clock widget on the home screen.

But, when I'm using an app, and I want to check on the status of the device, all the info is right there at the top of the screen; I don't need to do anything to determine the time, the battery status, the connection status, and a few other items. The true value of the status bar is not to check on information when the phone is just sitting there doing nothing, but rather to get status info when you're busy using it for some other purpose. :)

Re: Sailfish 2.0.0 Saimaa
 

You're being a bit dishonest here - on the first pic, your finger is clearly 1/3 of the way across the screen. On the second one, it's barely 1/10 of the way.

(I must, however, say that it at least looked more interesting when everything just blended, without the sharp cutoff introduced some updates ago, which only makes some sense when you swipe all the way.)

Re: Sailfish 2.0.0 Saimaa
 

Thanks for the correction, I forgot to put it as a disclaimer, but it's not that black&white.
Yes, I had a problem finding the right frame in the video as I'd need a frame that is directly in between of the other two frames. On the other hand, the peek doesn't start immediately, so I was able to reproduce my screenshot with almost the same position of fingers as in the video.

You could say the same about the second pair of pictures, where the first picture is further away from the camera, which decreases the readability.

Maybe I would be able to find some better video if I had more time, but it was just an illustration.


It could be 1mm for all I know - I am talking just about the difference between v1.0 and v.2.0. The point is, it's a usability regression just to have more eye candy. Or do you see any advantage of having to reach further (even if it was 1mm) to see the time?

Come on, if I childishly called you out for "crying" every time you put effort into criticizing something, there would be very little discussion.

UI flexibility? I tried to make the exact same patch before this one came out, but gave up, because there's little you can do without making a complex patch (which would be a PIA to update with every release) - you can only increase the font size and have the tradeoff between visibility and ugliness like with this patch. It even breaks the design guidelines for SFOS. Plus it's not just about the clock - all the other status icons were easier to distinguish, which no patch fixed yet.

I can read the tiny text too, but it doesn't make it more comfortable. I don't understand what's the advantage of having a tiny status bar with so much wasted space below:

https://i.imgur.com/hWEcjHa.png

Maybe you can explain?

Re: Sailfish 2.0.0 Saimaa
 

FYI, "to cry for something" is an idiom. It means to call for or demand something.