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maemo.org - Talk (https://talk.maemo.org/index.php)
-   SailfishOS (https://talk.maemo.org/forumdisplay.php?f=52)
-   -   Sailfish on Turing Phones? (https://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=96413)

eson 2016-08-19 20:01
Re: Sailfish on Turing Phones?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by pichlo (Post 1513031)
The UI does not define the OS.
I know that, I can handle a terminal passably but most people can't and for them, the UI actually do define the OS.

Quote:
Oh and innovation for innovation's sake is not progress.
I know that to, and I can only refer to my self in this matter. I adopted Sailfish faster than any other phone OS. It took me about one day to start asking why not all OS's work like this. That is progress to me.

chenliangchen 2016-08-19 20:24
Re: Sailfish on Turing Phones?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by gerbick (Post 1513027)
Good points but I'll have to kindly disagree. The purpose of any mobile OS that's wanting to be different needs to be at least intuitive. Folks that knew MeeGo/Maemo were having some initial difficulties with Jolla Sailfish in the initial release days. There were folks (some I honestly thought were joking) that were having issues with the gestures and so forth.

Knowing a preceding OS should not be required. I do UX all day; the moment I make the user think, I've started to fail. It should work in a way that the user finds appealing.

Sadly, some folks just fall back into Android or iOS patterns for something they hold in their hands.
I got what you mean. The reason I say knowing about Maemo/MeeGo or Linux not only refers to UX, but on the basic philosophy on a mobile phone.

I assume, folks who knows about Maemo/MeeGo would at least praise the following when reviewing Sailfish OS:

- The device is open to the user. SU access by default, no jainbreaking/root required to mod system.

- Multitasking. The apps are running instead of tombstone.

- No home button or navigation bar needed. A clean front face.

Things like this is not UX related, but those who use major OSes will never know...

gerbick 2016-08-19 21:07
Re: Sailfish on Turing Phones?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by chenliangchen (Post 1513036)
I got what you mean. The reason I say knowing about Maemo/MeeGo or Linux not only refers to UX, but on the basic philosophy on a mobile phone.

I assume, folks who knows about Maemo/MeeGo would at least praise the following when reviewing Sailfish OS:

- The device is open to the user. SU access by default, no jainbreaking/root required to mod system.

- Multitasking. The apps are running instead of tombstone.

- No home button or navigation bar needed. A clean front face.

Things like this is not UX related, but those who use major OSes will never know...
You just described a bunch of experiences then said "it's not UX related"... well um...

UX is not UI, which are the pretty ****ing pictures that make up a screen. The UX of terminal based (commandline) OS's require you type it in. That's a user expectation and experience. But even that stance is subjective. But allow me to explain my stance.

To go further, you described the actual experience, ease of use, and expectations that exist in a system that does real multi-tasking, not serial-tasking. It is that there are no buttons (UI) or navigation (UI) to get in the way of the experience of using the applications on the device.

UX is the form, the flow and the way that you interact with what's there and the approach therein... which, should not be based on whatever OS you're using. That's immaterial.

It's how the user gets **** done; if they can and the allowable approaches therein. iOS serial tasks - unless you use their new split-screen that sorta does multi-tasking while killing all of the other apps in the background and allows only two at a time.

Android does the same thing... split-screen and tombstones the rest.

Desktop OS's do windowed multi-tasking, unless you use snap-to (edge, quadrants, etc.). And MeeGo/Sailfish do real multi-tasking where once it's minimized, it may still run if it's programmed to do so.

But that's still part of the experience once it's been programmed to do so.

And as it stands; a mobile OS is not a replacement for a "major OS" quite yet despite how much marketing tells me as such. And above all, what exists in a device should not require prior experience or knowledge. That is what really bothers me; people that all too quickly declare that any opinion is null and void unless they come from a similar background, exposure and expectations in regards to how they want a device, OS or much anything to work.

It's far too myopic and limiting. Much like each and every device that ran Maemo, MeeGo and now... Sailfish.

The world is bigger than the 10% that know a damn thing about Linux - embedded or desktop.

I state all of the above just as part of a discussion; not as a condemnation of your take on what constitutes UX vs. UI. We see things differently and that's fine and I can appreciate your stance as it has a ton of merit. But as I stated earlier; I just have to kindly disagree.

Do not take my statements personal. They were not meant to be taken in that manner.

aegis 2016-08-19 21:36
Re: Sailfish on Turing Phones?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by nodevel (Post 1513006)
Sure, it requires a gesture (pulling the photo from the left), but there is a quick visual hint after every shot (the photo slides to the left) and the gesture is the same as on Android this "reviewer" celebrates, so I suppose he is not the brightest :)
It's not the same on every Android. Sony has custom camera software and on that it takes a picture then you get a stamp sized image of the last image you took to click on. It's obvious but it has to be when swipes aren't part of your ugly UX.

mosen 2016-08-19 22:36
Re: Sailfish on Turing Phones?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave999 (Post 1513032)
Yeah, and plz move to the OS thread and stop derailing every single thread.

Got you all ;)
Disagree. This thread is about Turing Phone.
One aspect is new sailfish users and "wannabe mainstream" reviewers washing on our shores, pointing out blind spots if you listen with an open mindset.

Dave999 2016-08-19 22:40
Re: Sailfish on Turing Phones?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mosen (Post 1513042)
Disagree. This thread is about Turing Phone.
One aspect is new sailfish users and "wannabe mainstream" reviewers washing on our shores, pointing out blind spots if you listen with an open mindset.
I concur! To me basically Nothing is offtopic. (Since I don't read most of the posts, maybe :D) The users takes the thread where they want it. Noone else. So lets continue to compare OSes and see IF we can catch any wannabe mainstream reviewers in our web. Or another Turing owner, maybe. That would be a bad beat jackpot.

Interesting that jolla blog don't say more about Turing.

ste-phan 2016-08-21 11:35
Re: Sailfish on Turing Phones?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by gerbick (Post 1513027)
... Folks that knew MeeGo/Maemo were having some initial difficulties with Jolla Sailfish in the initial release days. There were folks (some I honestly thought were joking) that were having issues with the gestures and so forth.

Knowing a preceding OS should not be required. I do UX all day; the moment I make the user think, I've started to fail. It should work in a way that the user finds appealing.

Sadly, some folks just fall back into Android or iOS patterns for something they hold in their hands.
Yes that is so true, after about 3 years of Sailfish usage I still get lost.
It is not that I don't know how it works, it is just that I don't operate the OS on the background in my mind while focusing on my creative process.
And this is way beyond the trouble fake "ok but it is not AndroiOS and no 100k apps" kind of reviews.

Obviously people at Jolla think alike seen the need to implement a version 2 of the UI and the un-skipable tutorial (that obviously does not help to make the experience more intuitive).

Maemo on the N900 and the keyboard-less version on the N9 did need no explanation.
N900 stands out as the device that felt like a relief to get to get to know and use and to return to.

ste-phan 2016-08-21 11:37
Re: Sailfish on Turing Phones?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mosen (Post 1513042)
Disagree. This thread is about Turing Phone.
One aspect is new sailfish users and "wannabe mainstream" reviewers washing on our shores, pointing out blind spots if you listen with an open mindset.
Since this Turing phone is nowhere to be seen, I'd suggest to make it a thread FOR Turing Phone.

Dave999 2016-08-21 11:57
Re: Sailfish on Turing Phones?
 
Here we go again... :D OS this, OS that...

I don't think it matters what jolla do with the OS. It will still be irrelevant until until it usable.

OS is irrelevant nowdays. no matter what we all thinks. Time is changing. Its all about services. doesn't matter if you swipe, scroll, swipe, click, hover.

Turing is not judged by its phone or its OS. If it cant use chromecast and cast Netflix the phone is broken.

So maybe jolla should refund users and doing something that users like or doing something else.

They cant live on 500 fanboys, some inverters money without growth which is pretty much zero since its impossible to buy jolla phones in most parts of the world.

Poeple is ready to help, but not via scams...It must result in progress or poeple and investers will checkout.

I'm ready to be supriced, and amazed by the irrelevant comments regarding the OS but Hope we will seen see more about the a actual device and turing adjustments.

pichlo 2016-08-21 19:19
Re: Sailfish on Turing Phones?
 
Dave, you are right but remember you are preaching to the crowd to whom the OS is everything. I know because I used to be like that too, until I realized the life is too short to constantly struggle with the OS when all you want to do is some basic thing like resize a photo.

juiceme 2016-08-21 20:26
Re: Sailfish on Turing Phones?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by pichlo (Post 1513163)
Dave, you are right but remember you are preaching to the crowd to whom the OS is everything. I know because I used to be like that too, until I realized the life is too short to constantly struggle with the OS when all you want to do is some basic thing like resize a photo.
You are 100% right there! The easiest way to resize a photo is, of course;

Code:
[nemo@Sailfish ~]$
[nemo@Sailfish ~]$ cp Pictures/Camera/20160821_004.jpg .
[nemo@Sailfish ~]$ identify 20160821_004.jpg
20160821_004.jpg JPEG 1920x1080 1920x1080+0+0 8-bit DirectClass 301KB 0.000u 0:00.000
[nemo@Sailfish ~]$ mogrify -geometry 190x100 20160821_004.jpg
nexusback@toosa:~$ identify 20160821_004.jpg
20160821_004.jpg JPEG 178x100 178x100+0+0 8-bit DirectClass 8.98KB 0.000u 0:00.000
[nemo@Sailfish ~]$

gerbick 2016-08-21 20:40
Re: Sailfish on Turing Phones?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by juiceme (Post 1513170)
You are 100% right there! The easiest way to resize a photo is, of course;

Code:
[nemo@Sailfish ~]$
[nemo@Sailfish ~]$ cp Pictures/Camera/20160821_004.jpg .
[nemo@Sailfish ~]$ identify 20160821_004.jpg
20160821_004.jpg JPEG 1920x1080 1920x1080+0+0 8-bit DirectClass 301KB 0.000u 0:00.000
[nemo@Sailfish ~]$ mogrify -geometry 190x100 20160821_004.jpg
nexusback@toosa:~$ identify 20160821_004.jpg
20160821_004.jpg JPEG 178x100 178x100+0+0 8-bit DirectClass 8.98KB 0.000u 0:00.000
[nemo@Sailfish ~]$
You didn't maintain aspect ratio. 1920 x 1080 should be 178 x 97.

(sorry, had to do it)

juiceme 2016-08-21 20:59
Re: Sailfish on Turing Phones?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by gerbick (Post 1513171)
You didn't maintain aspect ratio. 1920 x 1080 should be 178 x 97.

(sorry, had to do it)
Sure, and even that's not exact...
1920x1080 is 1.777777777...
190x100 is 1.9
178x97 is 1.835051546

So in my approach there is 10687ppm difference, and in your approach just 9687ppm difference...

However to the naked eye both approaches give exactly the same result, there is around one pixels worth of difference in the end result :eek:

taixzo 2016-08-22 04:41
Re: Sailfish on Turing Phones?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by pichlo (Post 1513163)
Dave, you are right but remember you are preaching to the crowd to whom the OS is everything. I know because I used to be like that too, until I realized the life is too short to constantly struggle with the OS when all you want to do is some basic thing like resize a photo.
For me the reason I keep Android around (as a dual-boot) is GPS navigation software - the best we have is Modrana, and while that has come a long way it is still problematic to use in a car (no voice input, speech directions are overly precise, etc).

Perhaps I should revamp the navigation code in Saera.

aegis 2016-08-22 10:06
Re: Sailfish on Turing Phones?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by pichlo (Post 1513163)
Dave, you are right but remember you are preaching to the crowd to whom the OS is everything. I know because I used to be like that too, until I realized the life is too short to constantly struggle with the OS when all you want to do is some basic thing like resize a photo.
Dave is right - it's services that matter. This is ironic given the way Maemo led with integrating services into the UX, the n9 continued with and if ever Jolla get around to opening up, Sailfish uses also.

If Jolla do, I might be back on Sailfish, but in the meantime I gave up fighting and I've been on Android for even the basic things (SIP, syncing, CalDAV, managing music, navigation, browsing)

juiceme 2016-08-22 11:20
Re: Sailfish on Turing Phones?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by aegis (Post 1513203)
Dave is right - it's services that matter. This is ironic given the way Maemo led with integrating services into the UX, the n9 continued with and if ever Jolla get around to opening up, Sailfish uses also.

If Jolla do, I might be back on Sailfish, but in the meantime I gave up fighting and I've been on Android for even the basic things (SIP, syncing, CalDAV, managing music, navigation, browsing)
It's pretty much what services you use and how you define a service...
If you are like me, there is no real alternative to SFOS, as Android just don't cut it; All my services are of the "i-made-it-myself-and-it-works-miracles-for-me" variety.

pichlo 2016-08-22 11:56
Re: Sailfish on Turing Phones?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by juiceme (Post 1513211)
All my services are of the "i-made-it-myself-and-it-works-miracles-for-me" variety.
You don't have many friend, do you? ;)

juiceme 2016-08-22 12:58
Re: Sailfish on Turing Phones?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by pichlo (Post 1513213)
You don't have many friend, do you? ;)
Well, in fact I do, however I like to keep in touch with them IRL, and not via messaging apps... :D:D
I'm not in fb, twitter, whatsapp, skype, linkedin... Instead I often go and visit my friends and occasionally have lunch/dinner/beer with them. Poor me, I have next to no social life it seems...

TMavica 2016-08-22 13:05
Re: Sailfish on Turing Phones?
 
anyone have turing phone can share their default ambience?

explit 2016-08-28 23:36
Re: Sailfish on Turing Phones?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TMavica (Post 1513227)
anyone have turing phone can share their default ambience?
can you maybe share your jolla ambience collection?

ssahla 2016-09-01 19:58
Re: Sailfish on Turing Phones?
 
Now that everything went well with the Turing Phone, it's time to move on to something new! Deep learning, neural networks, graphene oxide, a hydrogen fuelcell, you know, stuff like that. It'll be out next year! When can we preorder?

http://us11.campaign-archive2.com/?u...e&e=10b5acf899

Edit: Sorry, didn't notice there's already another thread for this!

Dave999 2016-09-01 20:11
Re: Sailfish on Turing Phones?
 
Mans! Get your money an get ready to join the scam...

https://m.facebook.com/comment/repli...eWmlJ&refid=52

One month to go!

EDIT: given that Jolla refund backers OC! ;)

clovis86 2016-09-01 20:23
Re: Sailfish on Turing Phones?
 
shitstorm incoming :o

Dave999 2016-09-01 20:29
Re: Sailfish on Turing Phones?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by clovis86 (Post 1514057)
shitstorm incoming :o
You are right about one thing...

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-lT2ZlXp7_R...B3wnoburza.png

We must inform Mosen. He is the only one that is planning to buy this ****.

Who added these tags again?

ka9yhd 2016-09-02 00:40
Re: Sailfish on Turing Phones?
 
Interesting note, Jolla mentions Intex on Twitter but says nothing about Turing. Not even on their Facebook page.

juiceme 2016-09-02 08:30
Re: Sailfish on Turing Phones?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ka9yhd (Post 1514075)
Interesting note, Jolla mentions Intex on Twitter but says nothing about Turing. Not even on their Facebook page.
What's there to wonder about? I mean if you've got a hillbilly uncle mad as a hatter you'd sure be embarassed about tweeting on his latest antics :D

mrsellout 2016-09-02 10:36
Re: Sailfish on Turing Phones?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ka9yhd (Post 1514075)
Interesting note, Jolla mentions Intex on Twitter but says nothing about Turing. Not even on their Facebook page.
Probably because Intex have a Sailfish device on the market for sale, while so far Turing have only half fulfilled a pre-order, they have still to release their actual Turing phone for everyone to buy.

pichlo 2016-09-02 15:25
Re: Sailfish on Turing Phones?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrsellout (Post 1514093)
Probably because Intex have a Sailfish device on the market for sale, while so far Turing have only half fulfilled a pre-order, they have still to release their actual Turing phone for everyone to buy.
That isn't it. Jolla was on about Intex for ages before anything tangible turned up. Juiceme has put a finger on it exactly.

gaelic 2016-09-07 09:00
Re: Sailfish on Turing Phones?
 
I guess the number of phones shipped is still somewhere between 0 and 2?

JulmaHerra 2016-09-07 10:57
Re: Sailfish on Turing Phones?
 
As if there wasn't enough....

http://www.androidheadlines.com/2016...azy-phone.html

Not even funny anymore... :)

xanderx 2016-09-07 19:49
Re: Sailfish on Turing Phones?
 
It's time to say farewell to this scam. Let's move on.

andyr0ck 2016-09-08 07:31
Re: Sailfish on Turing Phones?
 
The admittedly rather eccentric-looking Turing dude was on a Jolla dev-con video report. He seemed (at the same time) both sketchy and compelling.

Despite his wiffle and bluster, has anyone actually had their paws on a Turing blower?

lucavs 2016-10-09 20:54
Re: Sailfish on Turing Phones?
 
Nobody noticed the reference to Turing Phone on the last Sailfish SDK release note?

https://sailfishos.org/wiki/Applicat...ss_SDK_Release

mosen 2016-10-12 16:42
Re: Sailfish on Turing Phones?
 
The guy from twitter posted photos of his new turing device.
I asked wether it is the actual replacement unit with full specs.
@Dynamite, any news on your front?

aegis 2016-10-12 17:02
Re: Sailfish on Turing Phones?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mosen (Post 1516644)
The guy from twitter posted photos of his new turing device.
I asked wether it is the actual replacement unit with full specs.
@Dynamite, any news on your front?
Woah! Are you sure it's a guy or the WAG of a premier league footballer's account?

That's been hit by the bling stick so many times, natives of Essex would think twice about getting it out in public.

gerbick 2016-10-12 21:01
Re: Sailfish on Turing Phones?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mosen (Post 1516644)
The guy from twitter posted photos of his new turing device.
I asked wether it is the actual replacement unit with full specs.
@Dynamite, any news on your front?
That looks so gaudy. But it seems to have some appeal to some folks. Definitely will stand out of the crowd.

robthebold 2016-10-12 21:28
Re: Sailfish on Turing Phones?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by gerbick (Post 1516656)
That looks so gaudy.
It's no only waterproof, it has a theft deterrent coating, too.

Still glad to see that someone seems to have gotten one. Would love to see it turned on and reviewed . . .

And I really wonder just how many of these have shipped. No one seems to be dumping any on eBay. I would think that even if just hundreds have shipped, then at least one or two people would be disappointed at all the changes made since they bought in and dump it while the dumping's good. It really makes me think that the 8(?) we've seen are all there are.

fravaccaro 2016-10-13 06:43
Re: Sailfish on Turing Phones?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by robthebold (Post 1516657)

Still glad to see that someone seems to have gotten one. Would love to see it turned on and reviewed . . .
I requested a review device, it's supposed to be on the way.

mosen 2016-10-13 13:36
Re: Sailfish on Turing Phones?
 
Nice!
You can easily make history by establishing the first ever ssh connection to a consumer ready turing phone :D :D :D

Dynamite 2016-10-18 01:27
Re: Sailfish on Turing Phones?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mosen (Post 1516644)
The guy from twitter posted photos of his new turing device.
I asked wether it is the actual replacement unit with full specs.
@Dynamite, any news on your front?
No it's an evaluation model. They're still working on the final specs


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