Where do we go from here?
 

So. Noone can argue that the NIT grew by leaps and bounds between the release of the 770 and the subsequent (and some would say relatively short) follow up of the N800. It also cannot be argued that even though advances have been made, that the NIT is still very much a work in progress. So I'm very much interested in hearing your opinions on what you think the future of the NIT will look like (or as much as you can, in the case of people like Texrat, of course. I'm sure they're operating under the guise of an evangelist with an NDA). Speculate on anything, be it interface, OS, multimedia support, file system, hardware design or whatever. Also balance these theories (if you wish) against other open source offerings that are either available now or emerging on the market and how you see them affecting the future of the NIT. This is a speculation/prediction thread rather than a wishlist, so please try to validate your theories.

Re: Where do we go from here?
 

I don't really have an opinion - I only have fears and hopes.

My fear is that under pressure from market and media, Nokia will try to spice up the UI to make in more Apple-like. While this will look sexy on YouTube and attract buyers who never tried it before, its probably a step in the wrong direction for everyday use. When I choose a file from a list, I want a simple, precise UI that doesnt steal system resources, not a video game.

My hope is that they join forces with other GNU/Linux based mobile platforms and become even more open than they are now (in terms of licenses). This will make the NIT a part of a larger platform which might attract even more developers. At the end of the day we might see applications that run on NITs, Ubuntu Mobile and whatever other distribution without changing a single line of code, only by re-compiling.

Oh, yes, and my biggest hope is that next time they get the hardware right and make it a mobile device again, not something that just looks nice on a shiny glass table. So: Bigger buttons, sturdy hard cover, a few mm smaller in size.

Re: Where do we go from here?
 

Ah, my kind of thread...

The UI will continue to evolve on the future tablets for sure. There's just so much room for improvement here. I think the Hildon UI really needs to keep moving in the "finger friendly" direction that started with the thumb keyboard feature introduced on the 770 and the finger navigation that was introduced on the N800. Developers should also be sure to at least have the option of switching to an all finger style UI for their apps (much like Canola and Carman).

As for the hardware, I think Nokia really needs to bring back the hardcover that us 770 owners love so much. It was one of the many reasons I didn't upgrade to the N800. Also, the zoom, full screen toggle, and power buttons should be made large again. They are fine on the 770. Another reason the N800 didn't set well with me.

The camera is nice, and I think there's still a lot of potential there that can be tapped into. Higher resolution should be possible in the next tablet, and Nokia really needs to at least put some effort into producing some use cases for this feature to show what is possible. The speakers are fine, and two SD card slots is a great idea that should stay forever in the Internet Tablet line.

Features I'd like to see in future tablets are:
- USB charging
- USB host
- GPS
- TV-out/VGA-out
- Next-gen touchscreen tech
- Possibly some sort of S60 emulation

WiMAX is a good idea for future connectivity, but I have a eerie feeling that many won't be able to use it "out of the box" for some time until the service is rolled out to the major areas. So aside from that, there has to be some pretty big improvement over the N800 (as well as some not-so-obvious competitors) to make the next tablet a hit. But hey, it is Nokia we're talking about here. I think we'll all be pleasantly surprised with next year's offering in one way or another.

Re: Where do we go from here?
 

Re: Where do we go from here?
 

just not to mention that the finger driven UI has become basically useless in the last firmware, given the difficult to trigger the finger keyboard up. The one just before the skype firmware was nearly perfect regarding finger UI (at least IMHO), NOKIA BRING IT BACK!!

Re: Where do we go from here?
 

yeah that was a very bad bug. atleast we can still bring up the full screen keyboard with the center button on the dpad!!!

Re: Where do we go from here?
 

Ah yes, gotta add that to the list as well...
- Make sure not to break what works in future updates (and none of this "3 steps forward, 2 steps back" crap)

I mean, how hard is it to see that if no one is complaining about a certain feature, you don't need to mess with it? And please, please, please fix the bugs that have the most complaints from the community first. I'm about tired of hearing IT users (including myself :) ) whine on about certain bugs over and over again.

Re: Where do we go from here?
 

I think "fixing" the damnably tiny default open file window/tiny-box should be done as well.
Honestly, the delay with it "scanning" constantly when that thing opens drives me mad. Find a more efficient method for that and make the damn box BIGGER so we can read some actual filenames.
Also, the current file browser sucks. Improve on Canoe and make THAT the default file browser.
And better file/codec support as well. I mean, I can rip straight from DVD into .MP4 that can be easily copied over to micro-SD ad played using the default media player on my Nokia N95 phone but that exact same file when copied over to my Nokia N800 Internet Tablet cannot be played?!?!?!
WTF?!?!? Hey Nokia, ever heard of "media file format consistency" across at least ONE of your product lines, specifically the N-series line?
Hmmm...Nokia N95 and Nokia N800. Both are N-series devices and trumpted for their "media-playback-specific" prowness versus the business-oriented E-series line. Why the phuck can't the same file that easily plays on one be played on the other?
Hey, N-series product teams! Start talking to each other once in a while. Oh I don't know, do brunch once a week or something.

Most of the changes I want to see will never happen until things change INSIDE Nokia itself so it's not worth even bothering to mention.

Re: Where do we go from here?
 

And they all said...Amen

Re: Where do we go from here?
 

Just chiming in: all of my ebooks and mp3s are stored Artist/Author - Title: I get a nice long list of "Pratchett, Terry - " and no title. Joy.

Higher memory bandwidth or a working graphic accelerator. Driving that 800x480 gets choppy.

Full USB-OTG support with nice gadgets (A2DP, GPS, high-rez camera, keyboard, docking station with TV output, external storage, iPod connector (heh!)) and perhaps daisy-chain support.

Bring back the 770's slide cover. It makes the power-off use case EXTREMELY convenient.

All three are relatively simple improvements in Nokia's power. The rest, well, I imagine I'll get around to it. My new job is extremely intolerant of open source work, so we'll see how that goes...

Re: Where do we go from here?
 

This is quickly turning into a long personal wishlist.

For the NIT product line to get more attention from Nokia (better upgrades, more accessories, faster developments), it definitely needs more widespread acceptance. And to do that, the NIT needs to be... more ipod\iphone like:

- Simple and clean interface.
- Simple and clear workflows (email attachments, file management, etc as the ipod does with music, video, photo.).
- Communicate the above message clearly to the customers.

This can be implemented as a flash-lite interface on top of the current interface for the masses, while the powerusers can access the NIT platform as we know and love it.

PS: For those too 'elite' to see the merit of apple's simplified devices, just think that if you can sell a version of NIT to the masses, you'll get their money to (partially) fund the further development of the NIT platform.

Re: Where do we go from here?
 

My favorite prescription is for a tiny computer that talks to me and listens to me. I imagine a writer sitting in the sand at the beach talking stories into his cell phone or N800.

And the nice thing about a voice interface, is that the keyboard problem disappears.

My other dream is for Marylin Monroe's voice reading me bedtime stories. I think the time will come within the next 5-10 years when celebrity voices will be extracted from films and will become computer personalities.

Here's looking at you, kid.

Re: Where do we go from here?
 

just to note you can't please all the people all the time....

I recently did some work with a friend's n770 (which I'd borrowed before making the decision to buy the n800). honestly, I found the hard case fiddly. slow to manipulate into position, sometimes tricky to get aligned so it will slide on, then blocks access to the stylus in the 'use' configuration. I haven't got the nokia flap (a.k.a. 'case') that mainly just covers the screen, but that seems more along the protection design I'd hope for.

of course, if the flap were a thumb keyboard that would be my preference too I guess.....

otherwise I'd agree with the comments in this thread.

rob.

Re: Where do we go from here?
 

True, with voice operation, the keyboard problem goes away...

... only to be replaced by the people-standing-around-you-yapping-like-mad problem. You won't always be lying alone on a beach, getting your rocks off on Monroe. :D

So either we all learn to subvocalize really fast (and get used to wearing throat-microphones), or non-verbal interfaces for mobile devices are here to stay.

Re: Where do we go from here?
 

Its not that anyone would oppose improvements in UI design - neither on the ITs nor elsewhere.

It's just that a good-looking UI isn't necessarily easier to handle. IMHO, a UI should make tasks easy, not just be pretty.

I've worked with Apples OSX and there are things in the UI design that better not creep out of this closed world. Others are brilliant and are being copied anyway.

So the same goes for iPhone and the new pods:
There may be some aspects in the UI that are worth investigating (although I'm not even sure about it). From what I've seen until today, though, it's more the look&feel that's being duplicated. While it looks awesome and makes an exciting video for YouTube, I seriously doubt it will improve the handling of an application in any way - quite on the contrary. The experiments I've seen so far make things more complex, time consuming and error-prone.

Consumers will stay away from such UIs in the long run, even though there might be a short-term attraction. We've seen this happen. From the earliest days of Windows 3.x, software on this MS-platform has tried to escape from the dull standard UI and make things more exciting and pretty. Still, all these attempts failed the long-term usability check. We still use basically the same windows, menus and lists today. Not because we think they're attractive, but because they are unobtrusive and plain simple.

Re: Where do we go from here?
 

Yeah, that's the thing. It was a good idea that needed a little improvement for use on the next hardware (which should have been the N800), but instead Nokia took the opportunity to kill two birds with one stone by doing away with the cover altogether. They save a little money in materials and shipping costs, all while "fixing" the many issues we complained about. It was a smart move, but didn't really make the N800 look that much better than the 770 feature wise.

Nokia could have easily kept the cost down for a N800 hard cover by using a hard molded clear plastic one that you could slip over the device and still have access areas (and possibly speaker holes in it) to use the buttons without even taking the cover off in some scenarios. I think there may be a better reason for the elimination of the case now though. Touchscreens are getting to be more scratch resistant and durable these days. Heck, the iPhone and iPod Touch don't ship with hardcovers (do they even come with a soft cover?). I haven't heard many complaints about those devices in terms of screen protection, and to be honest, I don't see much complaining about the N800 screen either. I still think Nokia could have at least sold a cover as an accessory. I know I'd buy one for the 770 if it didn't have one to begin with.

Re: Where do we go from here?
 

While I could read N800 wish lists all day long and we have a week’s worth scattered about the forum, the only point of view worth anything now is Nokia’s. Does anyone have any inkling as to what Nokia’s intentions are?

Will it adhere rigidly to the Internet Tablet concept and let the form factor survive or not on that narrow capability?

Certainly if Nokia is serious about a future for the device then all it need do is peruse these threads and get on with implementing the suggestions.

Re: Where do we go from here?
 

The Million Dollar Question, indeed Rebski. Nokia sure is keeping quiet as it pertains to the Internet Tablet roadmap. It's one thing to not strongly market the tablets to focus on a small group of "test subjects", but it's pretty cold not to provide "test results" and a progress report every once in a while.

I don't mind being tested, but I'd at least want to know what the hell it was all for. :mad:

Putting a rat in a maze without cheese at the end will only give you useless results and frustrate the rat.

Re: Where do we go from here?
 

Exactly. Until Nokia starts taking its "unofficial" IT and Phone beta users (read: Nokia Early Adopters) a little more seriously then what's the point?
I think they are starting to finally "get it" a little bit what with the current NYC-only S60 Agent program, but one fashion-conscious-snobby city does not an entire demographic make. They need to expand it to more US cities as well as expand it to more than just S60 phones. "Nokia Agent" would be better.
Their current bluetooth headset designs and builds are uninspired and clunky. My Jawbone I use at work stomps the crap out of everything so far and the Motorola S9 stereo bluetooth headset rules in the sound quality, stability, and looks department. The stereo bluetooth on my N95 sounds better than the WIRED Ultimate Ears I used to use with the headset jack on the N95!
Now if they would only get A2DP working across the entire N800 instead of the current "hack" we have to use with Kagu then maybe I'd be a little happier.
Well, that and the MP4 video playback issues.
Nokia just feels really splintered to me right now with it appearing that the N800 is taking a backseat to their recent Ovi portal, Music Store, and N-Gage games line. NONE of those three will work on the N800! Well, maybe the portal will in the web browser so - yay - we can look at stuff we can't use.

Re: Where do we go from here?
 

Exactly

Isn't this why we are told to fill out all those bug reports. Obviously we haven't reached the quota yet.

I think that concludes our enquiry.

Re: Where do we go from here?
 

Yes. one thing we DO KNOW is that Wimax is the future for the IT.
http://www2.sprint.com/mr/news_dtl.do?id=14960

as such, we can speculate about IT development from the standpoint of "broader accessibility" or "increased usability" (if we adhere to the idea of the "internet" tablet, rather than a "portable computer." - there is a difference.) however, the departure point of "broader accessibility" invites (at least) two ways of speculating about development: 1) tablet features, and 2) ergonomics/form factor.

considering #1, then, we could speculate that the increased accessiblity of Wimax will transform the IT into apps that more easily utilize web 2.0 (and eliminating or seriously reducing a "desktop environment"). Point #2 invites speculation about design features that allow the IT to be highly mobile, secure, and rugged (solar power jax, rubberized, light(er), cable-lock port, etc).

perhaps a third area of speculation, discussed elsewhere, would be how voip and wimax change the landscape of telephony (and the market direction of Nokia itself).

Re: Where do we go from here?
 

Could it be possible that a WiMAX capable N800 will be exclusive to Sprint?

In the same way as the iPhone is exclusive to AT&T.

If so then that would change things.

Re: Where do we go from here?
 

Anything is possible, but it's also more possible that Nokia is way too smart to pull that one.

Most certainly. In too many ways for anyone to begin to comprehend.

Re: Where do we go from here?
 

Oh goodness, please don't! Stereo speakers are great for showing video to friends and family, and for listening when you don't have headphones handy. Speakers must stay.

Re: Where do we go from here?
 

Yes, don't lose the speakers otherwise I won't be able to show everyone I meet the Vader calls the Emperor clip.

Re: Where do we go from here?
 

Originally Posted by Milhouse :
Lose the speakers if it will save some space - they're not essential. At most, keep one ultra flat speaker


Got to agree with Milhouse.
Of course the speakers are crappy...look at the size.
Alright, they're OK for VoIP, and they're handy for that app combined with the built in mic, but I still use a headset most of the time with Skype because in many situations a headset makes it much easier to hear the other party compared with the device's not-loud-enough stereo speakers.
.
But do people really use the speakers for video & music?:eek:

Technology has come a long way since the '60s when I listened to a transistor radio playing an AM station. Personally, I can't stand to hear the annoying buzz which passes for music coming out of my N800 's stereo speakers. And a 4" separation??
.
Hi-Fidelity is pretty much a given in this day and age, so how could anybody possibly accept the sound quality that comes out of a half-inch speaker? At the same time, I'm also appalled by the cheap earbuds that are included with every device (N800 included.) Besides lackluster sound, the darn things fall out of your ears. And yet, for 10 or 15 bucks, you can get quite a good pair of Koss or Sennheiser in-ear buds that are infinitely better...both physically and aurally.
.
So, I too vote NO for stereo speakers....just one tiny crappy speaker is enough to fulfill the need.

Re: Where do we go from here?
 

Yeah, the one on the 770 is more than enough. It doesn't take up nearly as much device real estate, so make some room by taking the speaker feature down a notch and give us some dang better buttons and navigation pad.

Personally, I would be happy if they put the speaker on one of the edges (like the N95, N81, etc.) instead of the face. Make Maemo an all touchscreen interface, and do away with the face buttons altogether. Full screen, zoom, and power buttons can stay, but I think 2 of those 3 can be emulated via the touchscreen and UI as well.

For those that may be new (and some that might have forgotten), I have several sketches of some ideas that were done long before the iPhone existed.

[1][2][3][4][5]

Re: Where do we go from here?
 

No the speaker has to stay. It is by far the best speaker in any hand held. And it is another feature that apple doesn't include . it is best for watching videos which i am sure many of us do it in a group.

Re: Where do we go from here?
 

Well I'm all for group activities, but when watching videos on a 4" screen my group maxes out at 2.
One speaker would suffice.

Re: Where do we go from here?
 

kenny, you are my new hero. :D I still say put just one on the edge of the device. I don't need to see the darn thing, I just need to hear it.

Re: Where do we go from here?
 

Re: speakers.

For the minimal space and power drain, I think the speakers (on N800) are great! Unlike an mp3 player which does nothing but play music, there are many activities on N800 that benefits from the great mini speakers:

- Web audio
- VOIP speakerphones
- Games (Scummvm is great on the N800!)
- Alarms (VOIP, IM, PIM?)

Besides, the N800 audio out doesn't seem to be of that high quality. I hear much more noise from the N800 compared to my Cowon D2 (w/ Shure or Ultimate Ears earphones).

Re: Where do we go from here?
 

Eh, gimme stereo over mono any day. Just wish there could be a bit more bass...

Re: Where do we go from here?
 

I'm with Texrat on this one. I think one of HP's biggest mistakes with the HP Compaq tc4400 TabletPC was a mono speaker on the left. I'd hate to see Nokia go mono with an internet tablet.

Re: Where do we go from here?
 

The stereo speakers are only about 4.5 inches apart. That means the ideal listening position is what, 3.9 inches from the screen? I'm thinking the speakers are effectively mono already.

Re: Where do we go from here?
 

Yep, or even put it on the back of the device which is where it is on my Sony Ericsson W950i Walkman phone - a phone designed to carry on the tradition of the Sony Walkman range, and it only has one mono speaker (very thin, and very loud, must be some sort of electrostatic speaker). No pretentions from Sony that stereo is possible or even worthwhile on a small handheld device.

Sony made the right choice - one speaker is sufficient for the alarm and system sounds, and also to sample a few minutes of audio or video. If you want high quality sound, connect a wired or Bluetooth A2DP stereo headset.

Nokia should make the same design choice with the successor to the N800 - the second stereo speaker adds to the size and weight of the device without really contributing significantly to the overall experience.

Has the iPod Touch got even a single speaker? I don't think it has...

Re: Where do we go from here?
 

I've listened to devices with mono and devices with stereo, and every time, the stereo device wins out in sound quality. What is needed is some sort of equalizer in the multimedia applications.

Re: Where do we go from here?
 

Speaker vs no speaker = probably a worthwhile discussion.

Mono vs stereo speaker = ??

What do you gain if you lose one tiny speaker anyhow? I mean, I'd understand if the discussion points to the benefits, such as:

"I wish the screen covers the whole FACE of the tablet up to the edges, SO LET'S LOSE THE SPEAKERS"

"Oh, if we lose one speaker, we can make the battery to last 15% longer!"

I mean, what are you saying ppl? Why don't you want a freebie if it doesn't cost you anything anyway, and it benefits a portion of the users. You may come to enjoy the feature when you don't expect it anyway, and it's good that it's already there.

Like the FM Radio. (ha!)

Will having none, mono, or stereo speaker will greatly affect the NIT value? Will it gain significantly more marketshare in any one of those configuration than the rest? Or is this just a personal preference based on a single person's observation based on his own experience with limited needs?

Let's move the discussion to something more meaningful :]

Re: Where do we go from here?
 

Good post ysss, I think you have nailed it there.

Re: Where do we go from here?
 

here, here!

Re: Where do we go from here?
 

Yeah, I guess it's not really a big deal either way. Just something to draw attention to the other more important shortcomings, such as a useful email client or some "out of the box" PIM apps for example. The hardware is nearly perfect in my eyes, and we have little control over that part of the package anyways. The software is certainly not perfect, and both the NIT community and Nokia do have control over it's evolution and growth. That's where the serious focus needs to be directed.

...and we come back to the topic of discussion sparked by the question, which is the title of this thread. :)