maemo.org - Talk - Sailfish OS (officially) on Sony Xperia devices

| Prev | 3 4 5 6 7 15 | Next | Last

Page 5 of 78

Show 40 post(s) from this thread on one page

maemo.org - Talk (https://talk.maemo.org/index.php)

- SailfishOS (https://talk.maemo.org/forumdisplay.php?f=52)

- - Sailfish OS (officially) on Sony Xperia devices (https://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=99017)

thedead1440

2017-03-12 17:30

Re: Sailfish OS on Sony Xperia (official)

Quote:

Originally Posted by deprecated (Post 1525277)

I think people are looking at this all wrong.

Sony is looking for new ground to differentiate itself in the smartphone market. Their "open hardware" wing is working closely with Jolla to provide OFFICIALLY SUPPORTED images for Xperia X and several other models in the same Xperia family. This is a test, nothing more, to determine whether or not they want to release branded devices with Sailfish already baked in.

If either dumped everything into it without gauging interest, well... you know how that would go. Jolla and Sailfish would have another mark against them and then this chance will have been wasted.

I for one am very excited to get Sailfish on modern hardware. Even if that means doing it myself with officially supported images.

I have had the Xperia Z-Z5 and this open hardware thing of Sony is just hogwash. Most of the time, the SW is not properly optimised or camera has missing drivers for months. For example, the Z3 I remember very well even 9 months after release didn't have a daily driver AOSP due to missing camera binaries leading to a "fish-eye" effect on photos. Their DRM means unlocked bootloaders usually have to work-around to maintain camera quality even though most other OEM devices on the market today use Sony sensors and don't have this DRM but are able to produce superior quality images.

This "open hardware wing" of theirs is at most a few people who they got from the XDA community and I wouldn't be surprised with devices other than the Xperia X having issues. Even with the Xperia X I am pretty sure something or another will be compromised i.e. battery life, camera quality etc.

juiceme

2017-03-12 17:43

Re: Sailfish OS on Sony Xperia (official)

Quote:

Originally Posted by t-b (Post 1525275)

SFOS was indeed 'sold' as being a proper Linux OS but doesn't feel like that, for me probably due to the lack of 'apt-get' and just being a non hardware keyboard focussed OS. I am certainly going to give it some more time as you suggested. I like playing around with different technologies.

Well apt-get is for debian packages, SFOS uses RPM's which means you just need to use pkcon or zypper to work with it, otherwice the experience is pretty much identical.

Quote:

Originally Posted by t-b (Post 1525275)

I have installed Termux on android and was pretty impressed with the ability to apt-get some of my favourite Linux programs and as far as I know rsync, ssh are available as well.

I suppose there are lots of ways to get better console experience to android devices, however all those are more or less glued-on-top solutions; it is a pain to maintain your setup and you will miss lots of the advantages of the simple GNU/Linux userland.

Quote:

Originally Posted by t-b (Post 1525275)

Quote:

Originally Posted by juiceme (Post 1525273)

In just 3 words; glibc vs. bionic

GPL vs BSD or is there more to it?

There's loads and loads more to it. The whole android userland is a perversion of the real thing. It's a bad joke. You can patch it and add stuff to make working on a terminal better but why bother since the user experience will always be inferior.

On true GNU-userland-having mobile device like SFOS you can really easily do anything you can on a larger desktop machine, anything.

Quote:

Originally Posted by t-b (Post 1525275)

So I guess in theory easier to port existing programs? Emacs seems to be still 24.3 in openrepos (latest version of Emacs is my personal OS litmus test ;) ) . Even my good old N900 has 25.1 :)

Porting just about anything is possible, of course some things are harder than others. I have not looked into emacs but I suppose if one version has been ported it is no-brainer to port a later version.

rinigus

2017-03-12 18:33

Re: Sailfish OS on Sony Xperia (official)

Quote:

Originally Posted by kinggo (Post 1525276)

@rinigus well, I said "a few....". But how many people do you know that would be willing to go through that process just to try new OS?

Not much, maybe 1 :) . And I am not arguing its gonna bring masses. However, device like this, is required to keep people on the platform. Let's not forget, before that, we did not have anything to get in EU/US and many other places. If its gonna expose platform to more, then its fine. But its important to give developers and current users some hardware as well.

I am sorry, can't keep up with this thread fully and probably someone already voiced this opinion earlier.

Quote:

Originally Posted by t-b (Post 1525275)

So I guess in theory easier to port existing programs? Emacs seems to be still 24.3 in openrepos (latest version of Emacs is my personal OS litmus test ;) ) . Even my good old N900 has 25.1 :)

Depends on a program. Some are quite easy and some are harder (we don't have X11, for example).

t-b	2017-03-12 19:05

Re: Sailfish OS on Sony Xperia (official)

Quote:

Originally Posted by juiceme (Post 1525283)

You can patch it and add stuff to make working on a terminal better but why bother since the user experience will always be inferior.

Thanks for all your answers - probably have to work a bit more with SFOS to experience the better user experience ;)

r0kk3rz

2017-03-12 19:37

Re: Sailfish OS on Sony Xperia (official)

Quote:

Originally Posted by rinigus (Post 1525284)

Spot on, without first-party devices to buy its not so much about growing the userbase as slowing the rate of attrition. Unfortunately thats what it has come to but maybe it might lead to a proper sony supported device in the future.

r0kk3rz

2017-03-15 10:20

Re: Sailfish OS on Sony Xperia (official)

Ok even though the Community Meeting was postponed today we managed to get a little information from Jolla about the Sony Devices Project.

On the question of how it will be released, it sounds like thats still to be decided.

Quote:

Originally Posted by James Noori

Sony Xperia plans are on-going. As you know, we are going to collaborate with Sony Open devices to bring Sailfish OS to certain Xperia devices. How that will be available is still in the works, will it be a ROM, will it be a phone you can purchase? We don't have that answer for the public yet.

But as promised, we are planning to be done with everything by the end of this year's first half. Of course that could possibly depend on Sony as well as they form half of the deal here :) But expect official news during that time frame

mosen

2017-03-15 12:28

Re: Sailfish OS on Sony Xperia (official)

Quote:

Originally Posted by r0kk3rz (Post 1525452)

*snip* bring Sailfish OS to certain Xperia devices *snip*

certain ≠ all, to row back on that rumor.

lantern

2017-03-15 13:19

Re: Sailfish OS on Sony Xperia (official)

mosen
You couldn't expect all, because there are MTK devices and old ones.

kinggo

2017-03-15 13:39

Re: Sailfish OS on Sony Xperia (official)

and we knew that since devices in open program are only qualcomm based.

mikecomputing

2017-03-15 20:13

Re: Sailfish OS on Sony Xperia (official)

Quote:

Originally Posted by t-b (Post 1525269)

Can someone explain to me why Sailfish OS is better than Android (without GAPPS)? I have tried LineageOS and Sailfish on a Droid 4 and they both work fine.
SFOS is indeed different but tbh not that different. Not even sure if something totally deviating is possible on any modern phone with a capacitive screen. They all feel roughly the same to me.

I like SFOS for two reasons:

* Qt
* I prefer swipe over those shitty legacy buttons used on Android/IOS to navigate.

It's such a shame no more apps are ported to SFOS. Qt is nice.

wrm	2017-03-15 20:44

Re: Sailfish OS on Sony Xperia (official)

Why? Swipe. And close. Double tap and swipe again. Just cant let that go :) And of course, the best multitasking..

lancewex

2017-03-15 21:20

Re: Sailfish OS on Sony Xperia (official)

Quote:

Originally Posted by t-b (Post 1525269)

Can someone explain to me why Sailfish OS is better than Android (without GAPPS)? .

I bought the first Android device available, and have had several Android tablets (still have one), and even had a Yotaphone2 (briefly). Android navigation is a hot mess, and gets so tiresome. I use it begrudgingly--I'd use my Ubuntu tablet more if it were not so basic. Meamo/Meego/BB10 swipe heavy OSes are just so much better (not having used Sailfish I can't vouch, but I imagine...). They are so fluid and make more sense. Frankly I am pretty surprised you've used it and don't immediately see the difference.

lancewex

2017-03-15 21:22

Re: Sailfish OS on Sony Xperia (official)

Quote:

Originally Posted by robthebold (Post 1525235)

If you want to try SFOS in US before Xperia comes preloaded, the OnePlus One and X have good ports and work pretty well here. 4g on the X isn't the best everywhere, so if dara speed is a priority for you might not be your 1st choice. The One is a 2 year old device but still very competent... SFOS 2.0.5.6 works on both.

Thanks for the suggestions. I am surprised at the prices these are still going for (used, of course).

feedme

2017-03-20 15:21

Re: Sailfish OS on Sony Xperia (official)

Somehow new xperia L1 is like jolla C :)

http://m.gsmarena.com/sony_xperia_l1-8619.php

r0kk3rz

2017-03-20 15:56

Re: Sailfish OS on Sony Xperia (official)

Quote:

Originally Posted by feedme (Post 1525712)

Somehow new xperia L1 is like jolla C :)

http://m.gsmarena.com/sony_xperia_l1-8619.php

*Looks at Jolla C, looks at link*

Umm, how exactly? They don't look similar other than being rectangle, and the internals look completely different

feedme

2017-03-20 16:01

Re: Sailfish OS on Sony Xperia (official)

specs in general, speed, ram, etc, quite low spec. and yes, rectangular. Camera is better.
-->suitable to be next community thing

brunelli

2017-03-20 16:19

Re: Sailfish OS on Sony Xperia (official)

Quote:

Originally Posted by feedme (Post 1525716)

-->suitable to be next community thing

Except for the fact it has a MediaTek processor.

MartinK

2017-03-20 16:51

Re: Sailfish OS on Sony Xperia (official)

Quote:

Originally Posted by mikecomputing (Post 1525489)

I like SFOS for two reasons:

* Qt
* I prefer swipe over those shitty legacy buttons used on Android/IOS to navigate.

It's such a shame no more apps are ported to SFOS. Qt is nice.

Same for my and on top of that I really like that (at least IMHO) the system behaves in a much more sane manner than Android - in a pretty similar to my Linux powered PCs.

Also having the standard Linux/Unix utilities "in your pocket" is super useful - not just when using them directly from terminal on the device, but also "from the outside" - eq. using sshfs to transfer files instead of buggy MPT, simply SSHing to the device to run backups and manage files, etc.

A lot of this can be also done on an Android device, BUT it's not the default. You generally have to install and configure a lot of stuff and it still at least feels (and sometimes behaves) like something bolted on top of Android, not an integral part of it.

feedme

2017-03-20 19:45

Re: Sailfish OS on Sony Xperia (official)

Meadiatek, whats the problem, In Jtablet we have intel, so just an other platform and it's possible when jolla them selves is doing the thing.
( Writing this with J tab)

Merienth

2017-03-20 21:02

Re: Sailfish OS on Sony Xperia (official)

Quote:

Originally Posted by kinggo (Post 1524322)

not gonna happen. AFAIK, SONY open devices program is only for qualcomm based devices.

Just quoting kingoo as reference answer....

Yes Jolla could do MediaTek as well, just I currently don't see any realistic scenario, where they would do this.
I would be even happy if Jolla succeeds with Qualcomm based Xperias.

brunelli

2017-03-21 14:11

Re: Sailfish OS on Sony Xperia (official)

New blog post: Jolla at MWC 2017: wrap up

Quote:

One of the most interesting news at this year’s MWC was the announcement of a collaboration between Jolla and Sony Open Devices Program. This collaboration will eventually bring official Sailfish OS support to Sony Xperia devices.

We are aiming to release official support for Sailfish OS on a leading hardware platform with great specifications and amazing build quality for our community and of course as potential HW platform for our licensing customers. The first project we are undertaking is Sony Xperia X, which we also showed at our booth this year.

Our CEO Sami Pienimäki commented that we’re aiming to make the Sony Xpreria X a follower community device for Jolla C.

Following that up, Karl-Johan Dahlström, Director at Sony Developer Program further comments that their open-source platform supports innovation and development with the aim of building the strongest ecosystem possible with unique software experiences. “Collaborating with Jolla will only serve to further strengthen that offering,” he adds.

My Xperia X is ready! :D

cvp	2017-03-21 14:40

Re: Sailfish OS on Sony Xperia (official)

Quote:

Originally Posted by brunelli (Post 1525752)

My Xperia X is ready! :D

ready for what? to sell your phone? Do you think we get the sfos files to flash it self? i don't think so. You have to buy a new phone from Jolla directly with sfos pre installed.
or wait and hope some one leak it like the files for the jolla tablet.

brunelli

2017-03-21 14:52

Re: Sailfish OS on Sony Xperia (official)

Quote:

Originally Posted by cvp (Post 1525754)

Well, at this point we can't be sure of anything. Maybe it'll be like the Xperia E and Firefox OS (a ROM to be manually flashed), maybe not. I can only hope they make it easy for me to get a Xperia X running Sailfish OS in Brazil.

Right now all we can do is wait (and speculate ;)).

MartinK

2017-03-21 14:53

Re: Sailfish OS on Sony Xperia (official)

Quote:

Originally Posted by cvp (Post 1525754)

While I hope Jolla (or some partner) will also sell flashed phones directly (that could help adoption) I think it's pretty likely it will be possible to also flash you own device. It would be pretty stupid not make this possible, excluding a large number of people - current Xperia X owners and people who could get the device more easily through normal channels (remember all the restrictions for shipping of previous Jolla devices). Especially for something that's being called a community device.

Of course in any case an official clarification would be welcome!

cvp	2017-03-21 15:18

Re: Sailfish OS on Sony Xperia (official)

Well, I wish us all that it comes so. But then you have to explain to me how the licensing working between Jolla and Myriad and his Alien Dalvik support? if each Sony Xperia X user can flash for FREE the SFOS and WITH Alien Dalvik support?
Without Alien Dalvik I can imagine, but with Alien Dalvik Support unfortunately not.

MartinK

2017-03-21 15:30

Re: Sailfish OS on Sony Xperia (official)

Quote:

Originally Posted by cvp (Post 1525757)

I would certainly not mind paying a reasonable amount for "official" support - even per device or even per year/device to get access to all of the features & updates - kinda like having a RHEL subscription (although all the stuff in RHEL is open source, #unlike in Sailfish OS at the moment. :)

But I can imagine even something like a volume license - Jolla pay Myriad a sum of money per supported device. IIRC each device needs some tweaking due to how Aliend Dalvik works, so it would make sense to pay them for the work (and maintenance!) per supported device. If this is possible I can even imagine community crowdsourcing support for additional devices! :)

In any case I've asked for clarification in a comment to that new blog post - even though I think the chance of getting a clear answer at this time is slim I do think it can help making Jolla aware of this. :)

mosen

2017-03-21 18:21

Re: Sailfish OS on Sony Xperia (official)

We payed 120€ for a 60$ device last year.
I guess most of us would not have a problem with raising <50 bucks for a licensed image.

I only fear Myriad is too focused on their main market to find any sense in operating on good will basis.

They propably did the adaption for J1, Aquafish and Tablet because Jolla ordered a fixed or at least minimum number of licenses Myriad could calculate with.

Would be very interesting to know what that minimum is.

Anybody interested in faking a call to myriad and ask for an offer for your newly created and soon to be released embeded linux automotive component that needs to run Droid apps for some reason :p
My bet is around 10.000 devices!

Hariainm

2017-03-21 23:50

Re: Sailfish OS on Sony Xperia (official)

Quote:

Originally Posted by MartinK (Post 1525759)

But I can imagine even something like a volume license - Jolla pay Myriad a sum of money per supported device. IIRC each device needs some tweaking due to how Aliend Dalvik works, so it would make sense to pay them for the work (and maintenance!) per supported device. If this is possible I can even imagine community crowdsourcing support for additional devices! :)

Jolla can't even refund the money from the tablets, I don't think they're gonna pay anything to do that

juiceme

2017-03-22 08:06

Re: Sailfish OS on Sony Xperia (official)

Quote:

Originally Posted by cvp (Post 1525757)

I am willing to actually pay more for an installation without Alien Dalvik.

Not that it would be likely to be possible to do so but yes, to put my money where my mouth is and to further good causes; I will do that if it ever comes to pass.

r0kk3rz

2017-03-22 09:24

Re: Sailfish OS on Sony Xperia (official)

Quote:

Originally Posted by cvp (Post 1525757)

Remember there's another entity involved here: Sony.

Sony might be considering this some kind of marketing exercise, much like their Open Devices program anyway since its only of tangential benefit to the mobile division of the company.

So with a marketing budget the size of Sony Mobiles, how many Dalvik licences are we talking about here? 2000? 5000? It's not inconceivable that Sony would just give them away for free, since you must have already bought a Sony device to use it anyway.

But this is just speculation, since not even Jolla themselves seems to know how exactly its all going to work.

Ariadeno

2017-03-22 19:24

Re: Sailfish OS on Sony Xperia (official)

Should I wait for Jolla to release an official flashed Sailfish unit or get one now?

Edit: I want Dalvik of course

MikeHG

2017-03-22 19:36

Re: Sailfish OS on Sony Xperia (official)

Quote:

Does this mean we should run out and buy ourselves an xperia x with android today, getting sailfish and alien dalvik on it after Q2 2017? (Jaymzz_, 09:27:59)

Answer: We should have answers relatively soon, so I'd not run to a store today. Of course up to you. (Jaymzz_, 09:30:03)

http://merproject.org/meetings/mer-m...-22-09.00.html

mariusmssj

2017-03-22 21:40

Re: Sailfish OS on Sony Xperia (official)

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeHG (Post 1525833)

http://merproject.org/meetings/mer-m...-22-09.00.html

Most interesting!! Let's hope their soon, is actually soon.

KylliOrvokki

2017-03-23 07:39

Re: Sailfish OS on Sony Xperia (official)

Solution could be paid apps in Store.
Clean image for Sony servers to download and flash and Those who want Alien Dalvik could buy it from Store.

or

Sony pays clean image license per download to Jolla which includes Alien Dalvik.

Ps. I don't use Aliens so for me it does not matter... And I found and bought used Sony Xperia X so I am biased... :D

Merienth

2017-03-23 08:32

Re: Sailfish OS on Sony Xperia (official)

Quote:

Originally Posted by KylliOrvokki (Post 1525847)

Solution could be paid apps in Store.
Clean image for Sony servers to download and flash and Those who want Alien Dalvik could buy it from Store

I think devices sold via Jolla should include Dalvik as even if someone doesn't like it it is still part of the system Jolla envisioned. However the paid Dalvik app could a really good idea for HW adaptations.

No Android apps is the only reason I didn't switch to OneP X from J1.
I simply like to have more options if possible....

mrsellout

2017-03-23 11:14

Re: Sailfish OS on Sony Xperia (official)

I think I'm right in saying that Alien Dalvik is never installed on any device by default (although the Intex AquaFish may be the exception). The user has the option to install AD and other Jolla apps from the Jolla Store on first use.

Surely this method of delivery would continue with any Xperia devices. Would Sony be infringing Google's license conditions by including AD on any device it sells?

chenliangchen

2017-03-23 12:03

Re: Sailfish OS on Sony Xperia (official)

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrsellout (Post 1525854)

As long as AD does not contain any GMS components, I think they are fine. It should be based on AOSP

mikecomputing

2017-03-24 17:35

Re: Sailfish OS on Sony Xperia (official)

Quote:

Originally Posted by mariusmssj (Post 1525837)

most interesting!! Let's hope their soon, is actually soon.

lol............................................... .................................

ka9yhd

2017-03-24 20:33

Re: Sailfish OS on Sony Xperia (official)

Quote:

Originally Posted by mikecomputing (Post 1525947)

lol............................................... .................................

I agree. This "SOON" is becoming a broken record.

I will believe it when I see it. And no I do not mean taking orders for the phone. As we all remember how that went with the tablet. I mean seeing the actual phone being produced and in peoples hands.

Sorry I do not mean to sound negative. I do hope and want to see a phone produced with Sailfish on it. But I have grown tired of the "soon".

lantern

2017-04-19 11:58

Re: Sailfish OS on Sony Xperia (official)

Any news after today IRC meeting?

| Prev | 3 4 5 6 7 15 | Next | Last

All times are GMT. The time now is 13:44.

Page 5 of 78

Show 40 post(s) from this thread on one page

vBulletin® Version 3.8.8