Re: The new QWERTY device project
 

And loads of disadvantages:
Bigger screen = more power usage
Inconvenient for pockets, especially shirt pockets

We (I) want a phone, not a tablet. Between 3.5-4 is the sweet spot in my opinion.

Re: The new QWERTY device project
 

that's exactly the problem. Everybody sees the sweet spot in a different way. Fore me it's between 4 - 4.5.

Anyway show me a car, wich looks nice has more than 300 PS enough space to transport a sofa and costs less than 40.000 €.

I'll take the best what I can get. And at the moment it looks like the livermorium device will be the device which fits best to my needs. So I'll take it, no matter it has a 5.5" or a 3.5" display (At least when the over all dimensions are still tolerable.

Re: The new QWERTY device project
 

Where is the unofficial community campaign manager Mosen? Is he flying around the globe and trying to sell sushi?

Will be interesting to see what he comes up with. Currently I think we are to few to backup SailingChen.

How many is ready to put the money where the mouth is?

Re: The new QWERTY device project
 

I think I'm ok with 5.5" (or bigger!) now. I just tried my Magic-Pro blue tooth keyboard, which is 6" long and even has a track pad. The trick for me is to rotate my wrists while holding the keyboard and I can easily reach all keys. So go for it!

Re: The new QWERTY device project
 

Smartphones no longer have screen with 3.5 or 4 inches.

You are asking for an unicorn.

5.5 is not a tablet, it's the standard size for phone since more than two years.

Envoyé de mon LG-V500 en utilisant Tapatalk

Re: The new QWERTY device project
 

ORLY? https://www.kickstarter.com/projects...-4g-smartphone

Smartphones can be as big as they want to be, but everyone is leaning towards bigger=better, meaning if you want to make one smaller (like in "the good old days") it's harder, components are more difficult to find, and it's going to be more expensive and risky for you.

I hope loads of people buy Chen's first (larger) keyboard phone and that that then enables him to make a smaller one for those that prefer it!

Re: The new QWERTY device project
 

I wonder if they can be asked to comply with GPL and release kernel source code. This would make SailfishOS port possible in case someone wanted to.

Re: The new QWERTY device project
 

the question is, waht "that" can be used for apart from basic funcions availabale on dumbphones for less money and with way better battery life. Maybe as some cyclo/fitness/running something but with that resolution....

Re: The new QWERTY device project
 

Here's my issue though. I'm being coerced by both sides of this debate into buying a machine that's too small or too big without being asked what size is best for me.

Either it's a not so jolly giant telling me that it's 6 inches and higher, or some often mistaken for a small troll dwarf telling me that 3.5 inches is perfect.

Re: The new QWERTY device project
 

And for me the N900's screen is now just too small. For me the sweet spot is 5"-5.5". Bigger screen means much more comfortable web browsing.

Re: The new QWERTY device project
 

I suppose there might be special cases when you need a small device and functions dumbphone simply can't offer (say, internet messaging or voice calls), so it's offered as a "backup" to the main device.

Personally I'm not a fan of small devices, but if they manage to ship, there is a thing I like about that campaign. They basically took the cheapest MediaTek chipset available with 4G and managed to keep the price competive with budget smart phones on same SoC (at least for early Kickstart bakers) instead of overpricing it for "smallness". This pretty much fits its usage paradigm as second/backup phone.

Actually there are MediaTek-based smartwatches running Android, which are technically phones, but usually they run on way older hardware (like MT6580 with 512MB RAM).

Re: The new QWERTY device project
 

A few points wanted to share:;)

- N810's build quality is robust, and the metal feeling is awesome. But in its time, there were no touch gestures for even scrolling the contents. Therefore you need to accurate pointing at the scroll bar to "move down" the page. Which is not the case with multi touch anyway. Time to move on.

- I wanted to state that the width of N810 is on par with those so-called huge phones, and N810 will be thicker than this coming device. I know it's still smaller in length and width but it's not that much difference in feeling.

- As I stated before unless you want to use 4 years old hardware, but modern suppliers don't do devices below 5 inch anymore. It's not possible to develop anything below 5 inch in my own at this stage.

- 5.5 inch isn't that big. My Moto Z seem to be a good size. Try one before you comment.

- For battery, the more it goes up with size, the more battery life it generally gives and the extra amount with the bigger size out perform the extra consumption of the screen. That why those pads in general have a very long battery life

To conclude the talk on the sizes:

- Currently only 5.5 inch is considered. I don't find any problem with operations in SFOS on 5.5 inch, and it's generally a great balance overall with battery, screen, camera, a more PC towarded UI.

- To get a device like 3.5 inch or 4 inch, it's not possible for now and I don't see any point doing that.

- Time to move on. :)

Re: The new QWERTY device project
 

Size does not matter... Livermorium does...

"We" must have this...

Re: The new QWERTY device project
 

There is no point in continuing arguing about the screen size. It is set in stone and the choice has been made based on (1) actual constraints that can't just be ignored (parts availability*) and (2) design decisions (as in engineering, not aesthetics). It's not just a blind random choice.

In all honesty, I would buy this device even if Chen came up tomorrow announcing that the only way to build a keypad in 2017 is to source blinking RGB keys.

Let's move on and be supportive. The device will be as good as it gets, or won't be at all, and even with some minor frustrations depending on people's preferences, it will still be far better to people who want an open bootloader with a keyboard and a choice of OS than anything any other manufacturer has to offer (or impose). It will in fact be the only device to offer that. There's no match.

* This tiny Jelly device got $1.25M and there were enough resources to build working prototypes before the campaign, plus it does not try to reinvent the wheel, it's just a small Android phone. Livermorium plays another move here, and this seems to be something that may be more interesting to people in this thread.

Re: The new QWERTY device project
 

I probably should have been more specific- rather than screen size I meant more phone size- if you can fit the same 4"+ screen in the same dimensions of older <4" phones then sure.

The problem is when the phones are bigger to put a bigger screen. For example my current phone is about the same size (height) as my n900. Current phone has 4.3" screen, because it's more screen than borders.

Figure out/plan it to be a smaller phone with maximum screen coverage, rather than big borders to fit all the components (making the phone bigger)

Rambblerabblerabble

Re: The new QWERTY device project
 

That would certainly be an interesting device to run SFOS on. Swipe gestures vs buttons become more important when the buttons are smaller.

Re: The new QWERTY device project
 

@chenliangchen

Will you plan a crowdfunding campaign?
is there a chance for paypal accounts?
cause i have no credit card. :D

Thanks for all your work...

We need this phone...:)

Re: The new QWERTY device project
 

the problem is that people tend to have different preferences about phone size so you cant please everyone with only 1 model.

my problem is that its not a matter of preference, id love to have a huge screen, but i cant.
when on the go i use my phone in portrait, and a 5" phone (16:9) is the largest that im able to use (with bezel, might be a little bigger for bezel-less phones) with one hand.
i dont want to go about dropping everything (but the phone) to do anything useful with it, if i cant type on the portrait onscreen keyboard with one hand it aint the decvice for me.

one thing i dont understand though

where do you find a design for a qwertyslider that big so as to not have to develop it from scratch?
the last landscape qwertysliders were produced way before screens got that big, so ... you'd asume there arent any designs that big you could use?

question: have you considered a touchscreen phone with optional magnetic keyboard? (like tohkbd https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A834DyFiBUE)
you'd have a wider range of designs to choose from, just need to add pins and magnets on the back.

Re: The new QWERTY device project
 

Please no. Not magnetic keyboard again. Just... no.

Re: The new QWERTY device project
 

if you're already adding pins and magnets, you might as well just add a bracket mount...

Re: The new QWERTY device project
 

from his other project, HWK moto mod.

Re: The new QWERTY device project
 

To be honest, a phone with a keyboard attached this way is rubbish, for multiple reasons:

1. The Phone is massively unbalanced, because the battery is in the Display unit, so typing isn't really comfortable.
   
2. The Phone is thicker
   
3. The whole thing is quite instable (not software wise but hardware) and doesn't give you a lot of trust in not loosing the display unit.

I have tohkbd and I merely use it for that reasons.

Re: The new QWERTY device project
 

I tend to agree with @fellfrosch's points. Just as most-if-not-all keyboard accessories meant to be used with a tablet, "converting" it to a laptop don't work for the very same reasons; the end result is not a good tablet nor a good laptop :p

It is essential to have a solid connection between the lower part containing the KBD and the upper part with display, and to get the balancing right the battery just has to be located in the lower part, else the construction is very uncomfortably balanced.

Re: The new QWERTY device project
 

I think we need a big banner on the first post explaining why the screen size is set, to prevent this recurring debate.

For those of us who sit watching this thread it looks like people just aren't getting the message / complaining even though the answer has been given several times, but in reality it's probably just because newcomers aren't reading the whole thread and the information is buried (even though it's linked from the first post, it could be more explicit).

Re: The new QWERTY device project
 

He has the slider design from his Moto keyboard project.

And he has a working reference design for a 5.5" device. (Not sure where from, but that's what I understood.)

So now all he has to do is combine those in a single device. Which is easier than starting from scratch, but is still a very big effort considering he only has a small team.

Re: The new QWERTY device project
 

A friend of mine came up with an interesting idea about N900 and I think it may be great to include it in Livermorium.

The idea is: shift/fn on the back of the device just as L1/R1 keys on a game pad, to be pressed with an index finger. This would make it possible to type special characters much more quickly. I don't insist on removing usual shift/fn but what about adding such extra keys?

This would certainly be innovative. And it would be nice to configure these, because some other use would be to have left/right in sich a form.

Re: The new QWERTY device project
 

Was busy finishing the Keyboard Mod. But some progress was also made with this device.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DIBktqKXsAMkACP?format=jpg

This is the look when the slider is closed.

Re: The new QWERTY device project
 

I'm in love with the design [emoji7][emoji7][emoji7]

Enviado desde mi F5121 mediante Tapatalk

Re: The new QWERTY device project
 

Holy sh*t - shut up and take my money!

Re: The new QWERTY device project
 

The design is great, you didn't lie when you said Lauta, and that's awesome.

Slightly bevelled corners as on the N950 would save our pants though.

Re: The new QWERTY device project
 

The design is great like your choice to follow this different path with this device. I hope all of us and I will have it on our hands one day. I really can't find an option in the market of buying something that is open, not specs oriented and with a hardware keyboard. Something though that is not applications limited, has poor performance or needs sacrifices having funny problems and lacking of features . A true 2017's N900.

My big concerns are about the time of release and how well/quickly can jolla adapt SFOS for it. Unfortunately, my trust for them has decreased. You have my support:). I will be close to this thread for the updates. Thank you.

Re: The new QWERTY device project
 

Small note for the
"I want to run vanilla Linux on my phone" crowd of this thread :
https://puri.sm/shop/librem-5/

Purism is trying to crowdfund a smartphone that they design from the ground up (their own PCB) based around Freescale (i.MX 6 for now, maybe i.MX 8 if it gets similar support by then) - according to them the opensource drivers present in the upstream linux kernel and upstream Gallium3D all support the i.MX 6 very nicely.

Maybe one day, when chen decides to make a successor of this project, that could be an architecture for a full custom and linux friendly PCB ?

Re: The new QWERTY device project
 

Awsome!!! hope you add the option for a qwertz keyboard :)

Re: The new QWERTY device project
 

You will offer different colours :eek:
That's bad!

I can't decide if black or silver is more beautiful. Maybe I have to take both colors. :D

Re: The new QWERTY device project
 

Silver looks great. What about icie blue :D

That's not a keyboard device ;)

Re: The new QWERTY device project
 

The device looks very nice in the renderings.

However I do have some concern on the mechanicals; I have had E7 before, and have on one occasion had the privilige to hold @eekkelund's N950 in my hands and in both of those there is the same difficulty.

The slider mechanism is fairly difficult to open even with 2 hands, and pretty much impossible to do with one hand, even when you have dry and warm hands.
With cold/sweaty/greasy hands it gets even more difficult.

I have almost dropped those while trying to push open the cover to get to the keyboard! :eek:

Now it may be that I am just a mämmikoura and not nimble enough to handle such techniques but I hope this will be both easy to open and firmly closed when required.

Re: The new QWERTY device project
 

You obviously have never seen a slider device like E7/N950/Lauta...

Re: The new QWERTY device project
 

Ok.

I need this now.

Re: The new QWERTY device project
 

It seems, you did it wrong, then :D
My GF had (actually, has, because it's still there in the drawer...) a E7, too. And she really loved it... She even asked me just a few weeks ago, if it was possible to install SFOS/Android on it so she could use this old device :p

The keyboard was extremely snappy and easy to open (at least with two handy, why would I open it with one?). I think the trick was, you had to push the upper part "down" into your hands, not just "up" like on the N900 - and then the slide mechanism just snapped up and revealed the keyboard...

In this video you can see it: https://youtu.be/sQO_gkXQALg?t=3m55s

Re: The new QWERTY device project
 

Yes, that's exactly how to do it.
I'm not dumb, my hands are just slippery :(