Re: The new QWERTY device project
 

Yeah, it was a lot of fun to watch other people get for free the device I paid for, then be told that I'm not getting one at all.

There's a delicious irony in how frequently we're reminded that this next phone thing isn't crowdfunded. I'd argue it was crowdfunded... by the keyboard mod investors.

Re: The new QWERTY device project
 

Dave, thank you. I decided not to comment on this project furthermore until it was formally launched, or at the point I can safely release all the info. But I wanted to say thank you this time.

I know it might sounds un-trustworthy at this point, but this date is not far.

And I am so glad this is no longer crowdfunded - no more refund farce. And everyone buys when they are ready. :)

Re: The new QWERTY device project
 

I am very sorry. The main users that got early access of the device was for the SFOS/Lineage OS dev purpose. I did want to make a good solutions to all of you. But the consequence was unexpected to me as well.

As someone says I should not take the excuses. My sincere apology to you.

Re: The new QWERTY device project
 

Reading previous few comments is quite upsetting.

I really don't understand things like:

I don't know how many times I need to state that there is no upfront payment or whatsoever for this product, until it is released. If you don't believe it just don't believe you have nothing to lose. But talking this way is very discouraging.

First of all for the Keyboard Mod I said in posts above, the funds has been spent on moulding, R&D engineering, samples etc and now I issue full refund means I need to bear the loss above, plus the cost of IGG platform, bank transfer, PayPal, and my spent on part of final components and PCBs. I choose refund because I do not want people lose trust for others, and I do not want to make lost on others.

And certainly, I will not think others like the above did.

We all tried different ways of improving our current situation of mobile phone industry, from Neo900, to Keyboard Mod, and Purism, Gemini, Necunos etc.

(Meloferz, Youyota wasn't my project and I have invested way more than anyone else.)

It might not be successful for every project, but at least there are people who are actively trying. I have to admit crowdfunding isn't a good way of supporting those, as there are uncertainties and delays before it is released. But since there is no crowdfunding at this one, I am not sure where your loses will come from.

To me if I see a new project, and not taking upfront payment, I will not think this way like the above, but support it as I can. And I was wrong about what I thought of others.

Making a new slider phone isn't like an accessory, for the huge upfront cost I take every step cautiously and avoid any risks I can think of. This is not a game.

Perhaps I can tell some challenges we encountered recently:

- The picture quality of (a good) front camera drops with the length of FPC, the longer the more it drops. VGA camera in old slider isn't affected as their transmission width is much smaller, so they did not have this issue. But if you want a good picture quality on a slider with FPC for front cam there is serious engineering work involved. And we solved.
- It's also hard to use a high-standard rear camera sets and not having camera pointing out (like nearly all other phones) and maintaining a good thickness. Because sliders need to sit on a table and the rear needs to be flat. We used the latest camera modules and we made it.
- It's hard to have all antenna bands - especially the global LTE bands tuned up for the slider. Considering N950 it's a 3G device, and Droid 4 does not have many LTE bands coverage. We need to tune a crazy amount of bands in 2 states, slider closed and slider opened. Plus we have more metal parts inside.

I can list a lot more if necessary. This is also the part of reasons I don't want to show early if not ready.

To avoid causing unnecessary speculations, which might even cause negative impact for other on-going projects, I will stop posting in this thread. (Which I did for the last few months) If you do care I can update on Telegram separately until formal announce.

So yes I am not doing marketing in here, I am not asking you for financial support, I am not selling them now, I am not preparing for a future crowdfunding, I am not taking payments, I am not taking keyboard mod funds and run away, I am not making a scam...

I do miss the old time though.

And finally, please follow the official announcement when they come. And I do hope it can surprise you. Until then I will not reply and update out of official source.

Re: The new QWERTY device project
 

Why is there frustration in the air?

Re: The new QWERTY device project
 

Doing a proper HW project from scratch is really risky. To keep up in long run is even more so. Just look a Pebble who even though delivering multiple products simply burned through all investor money and went down.

Despite the clever marketing of some "groundbreaking" features the first iPhone was not a big commercial succes. Just the followup generations with lower price and app store had a breakthrough.

You need a lot of upfront investment and can be never sure if it will be worh it. For that reason I really honor anyone who tries to produce some quality HW. Especially in some niche market lke HWKBD phones. :-)

So keep up Chenliangchen!

Re: The new QWERTY device project
 

Chen (and others), I would like to tell you a story. A story from my own life. I apologize in advance for the length but I would plead with you to find the time and read it as it was very educational for me and I believe others would also benefit and, maybe, avoid some of the mistakes I have made.

Years ago, before I acquired a family, I used to go playing chess with some guys from work. Once a week, we met in the pub after work, set up our boards and played, glass of beer in one hand, eyes on the board. I was not a complete rookie, I had been playing recreationally for years, but some of the guys were miles ahead of me. Reading theory books, playing competitively etc.

I learned a lot from them. Theory I missed on before, famous strategies by grand masters of the past... But by far the most valuable lesson I learned was this. Always, and I have to emphasize that, ALWAYS think like your opponent. Whether you are considering your next move or planning the whole strategy, imagine you are not sitting in your own place but on the other side. What would you do? How would you play? Could you see any strengths and weaknesses you are missing when looking at the board from your own side only? Could you, as your opponent, spot what you are planning to do and make any countermeasures?

This advice, to try to see the same situation from other than your own side, should be a universal strategy. Not only in chess, but in every walk of life. Business and political negotiations, even personal interactions like asking a girl (or guy) out, even banal things like deciding which pub to go to or what movie to see.

To make it clear, I am the first one to admit that it is not easy. Even with a full knowledge of the advice, I find that I do not always follow it. I cannot always put myself completely in the other side's position. My judgment is always, at least partially, clouded by my own perspective. Of course outcome so-and-so is the best, so of course both sides will want to work towards that outcome. It is obvious, right? Not necessarily. What we often forget, is that when we say, "outcome so-and-so is the best", we really mean that is is the best for me. What does the other side think? Would the knowledge of the answer change our approach?

Why am I going to such lengths (literally! ;)) to pontificate like this?

Because I think you have fallen into the same trap, failing to consider how the situation may appear to someone other than you. I have to emphasize, I do not blame you. I do not think it was deliberate. And I am not, I repeat, not throwing around the Dave's favourite "s" word. It's just that the trap is so well masked and extremely difficult to avoid, you have to be constantly making a conscious effort to avoid it.

For example, you know that Youyota was not your project, so of course it is obvious to everyone, right? Well, wrong. You have some inside knowledge that we don't, the "chess board" may look different from our side. As far as we can see, you introduced the project to us. You promoted it. You were the only contact point. There was some mysterious "Mike", but no one has ever seen him or exchanged a single message with him. You know him, we don't. And then, when things started to go south, you were the one who edited the first post in the Youyota thread, the one where you initially introduced the project and described how easy and straightforward it was going to be.

Let me stress again, I am not accusing you of anything nefarious. Only of not seeing the forest for the trees and failing to consider how the same situation may look different from the other side.

Re: The new QWERTY device project
 

While I agree with @pichlo all in all, we shouldn't just address this just to @chen - I know you haven't. But anyway the example in in the text was directed to chen.

Please don't forget, the rude words started not on chen's side but other people started acting quite harsh. I had never the feeling that chen wasn't open or dishonest but communicated very reasonable.

I can understand that people were quite frustrated with the Youyota campaign, i've also lost some money, even so I just ordered the keyboard cover. And I also lost money on the the Neo900 campaign.

Anyway I can't see any reason for getting personal on people which did their best. And I think everybody should assume the guy's tried hard, as long as it is proven, that they didn't. If you need more information to judge a situation, don't start to rant but ask politely.

When we tell @chen that he has made a mistake in not being empathic enough, I think we make exactly the same mistake.

The key for such situations is, staying calm and friendly as long as you haven't prove, that somebody cheated you. I don't think it's gonna get us anywhere, when we shout out on any possibility SCAM or even worse ROBBERY (Especially when there is a refund possibility).

And I said it already on another post of this thread, let chen do his job on his q-device (and better encourage him, than telling him what is possible or not). If he succeeds you've won a lot, if not you haven't lost anything.

Re: The new QWERTY device project
 

Off topic but i cannot believe the Youyota scam indiegogo is still open and taking money , to be honest it makes me fu((ing sick!

Re: The new QWERTY device project
 

Off Topic but I cannot belive jolla still living on the scam with our money. It makes me going oh la Wahhabism la la la la.

Re: The new QWERTY device project
 

[offtopic]
I really don't know... maybe a long wait, delays and more delays ... There is no monthly camera phone competition... My car is broken... Prices are rising... Boss is stupid... etc...
[/offtopic]

Re: The new QWERTY device project
 

How can anyone let trivial things like that affect you?

Re: The new QWERTY device project
 

Me, myself and i... a person who try to write sarcasm and nobody understand... i feel so sad now...

https://www.eluova.fi/images/1405.png


But now i stop this OffTopic. Thanks...

Re: The new QWERTY device project
 

Thanks @Chen that you are still around to comment here. I hope you can filter the frustration. I think it is harder for you to have put in a lot of time and effort and get this far and not getting to success. I can understand that it's hard to keep motivation and being constructive with all the negative comments. But i enjoy that there are people that try to calm it down and get the conversation back from the emotional state as this is leading nowhere. I really hope that you will be successful with the phone as many people here will be thankful to get an alternative in their hands and may be there are much more people looking for exactly this kind of device. So i wish you good luck too get the stones out of the way to the sellable device.

When the project gets to the next steps and you can share some info on it please let us know.

To all the people that feel scammed by the youyota project. It is frustrating that Dave was right from the beginning. But it was everyone's own decision to invest or to wait or to not invest. Yes it looked better when Chen introduced it. I can imagine that he was also excited to get one of those tablets as I was. For myself I looked at the comments on the risks on investing on igg and decided to invest. Knowing that it can and possibly will fail. So it was a gamble. The blame is on the igg side as they provide no protection and they still have not closed the project. For me this is scam as they take money for their "service" and all they do is keeping up the platform for scammers.

Someone from the US should check if there is the possibility to at least to get this accredited business logo (https://www.bbb.org/greater-san-fran...372843#bbblogo) taken away.

Re: The new QWERTY device project
 

I've concluded we are doomed to an existence of phones witbout HWKB like the N900. Anyone who thinks otherwise has gone Crazy Eddie.

Re: The new QWERTY device project
 

How can the Phone potentially be ready in two Months when its only images yet? Thats crazy. Eddie?

Anyone knows if jolla is working with/for/against this Qphone?

Re: The new QWERTY device project
 

A stinkhole :D never heard that before.

Honostly, I think it’s great to have a BOOOM in this thread.

Re: The new QWERTY device project
 

May I ask which part of Chen's own words, as he has been saying for months, is not clear for you ?
I am talking of this kind of sentence :

Re: The new QWERTY device project
 

Never quote and reply 999 :)

Re: The new QWERTY device project
 

What I’ve learned from jolla tablet until now is never to trust any source until it’s actually built. Nothing against the awesome vision from Chen! Hope he is not taking it personally! Since I actually cheering for him.

But I’m a natural born doubter :D

Seeing is believing!

Re: The new QWERTY device project
 

Yes, please don't do this.

Re: The new QWERTY device project
 

Better to quote chen! He has all the info. I’m just a random potential customer for QP if it will be real, available and for sale.

Re: The new QWERTY device project
 

My bad, a moment of weakness for sure ;)

Re: The new QWERTY device project
 

Dave, If you are interested in aliens that have gone "Crazy Eddie", read the Mote in God's Eye by Niven and Pournelle. Or at least read the Wikipedia description, which is not to long but has the main ideas.

Re: The new QWERTY device project
 

Couldn’t find any crazy Eddie in the coDominium universe. That doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist an crazy Eddie in that universe though.

Just because I couldn’t find the Qphone in our universe doesn’t mean it’s not in available I guess.
We just have to wait until l Q4...and Then...And Then...Aaaaad theeen...

Re: The new QWERTY device project
 

Lets be honest here, the fact that Dave999 was right is WORSE than the fact it was a scam :p (And I was the first backer of the Youyota IGG 'offering') :o

Re: The new QWERTY device project
 

[offtopic]
I got the frikkin' phone back :eek: :D :eek: :D
It had no sim in it so i figured it was gone for good.
Also figuring the thief was maybe just broke af for snatching such an obviously old device, i came up with a kind of last resort social hack that worked to my utter astonishment.
I wrote a letter to the thief placing it on the night-drawer were i last remembered to have seen my dear nexus.
Asking him/her to return it as it would be of no real use in resale and explaining the nature of the software it runs and its sentimental value in few sentences. I attached my usual 20€ tip for the cleaning staff upfront.
The letter disappeared without exchange for the phone and i thought i am the greatest idiot of all time the whole Thursday evening, for even throwing money after the thief.
The surprise came when checking out of the hotel yesterday morning. "Someone" had placed the nexus in Lost+Found at the reception and thankfully the staff correctly remembered i reported missing one on tuesday.

Sooo, i still ask myself did i just stupidly loose it myself (somewhee else int the hotel) and not find it (while thoroughly searching the whole wednesday evening) in the hotel room, cleaning staff simply found it and coincidentally put it into L+F the right time?
Yeah, not 100% ruled out that it went down a little different than i "figure" above, but i am quite certain to not have moved the phone from the drawer as i strictly brought it as an alarm clock to wake me up at 5.
Any way OT solved, faith in humanity restored. Sry 4 the length.
[/offtopic]

Re: The new QWERTY device project
 

naw....
you just lost it...
If you brought it with you to wake yourself ....as an alarm..
the natural thing would be NOT to put it back into a drawer ...close it...and forget about it ...once you hit the alarm...
That is much too complex an act for a waking person to contemplate...
Sooo..
you lost it...
set it down somewhere ..
and staff prolly saw it and put it in lost and found...

Don't fret mscion..
Either way ...your disappointment and faith in humanity are equally balanced ...
either a thief took the phone and returned it...
took the money to boot ...too...that was meant for the cleaning staff...I have no doubt..
OR it WAS the cleaning staff that took it in the first place...
OR you left it somewhere else ...setting it down in the hotel...
and someone returned it...staff or guest...

faith and disappointment in humanity ....should actually cancel each other out anyway...there are simply too many people with sooo many motivations, needs and agendas...
and when it comes to the basest level of taking another's belongings..
rarely does a person who DOESN'T need the money ...steal.
Someone who takes something usually sees "risk"...and "need" tends to cancel out the risk of being caught...
So ..I hardly can put such folks in the category of disappointment..
If someone did intend to take it ...they needed the money....

Either / Or ...
its all good...I think..
and it came out well in the end...

Re: The new QWERTY device project
 

I tbink you meant mosen, not mscion...

Re: The new QWERTY device project
 

Hahaha...
See what I mean?
Just woke and wrote ...
Brain doesn't function well on first waking...
My bad.

Been a crazy month...renewing firefighting and survival craft and equipment certificates ..

[Disclaimer]
Accept my most sincere apologies for any possible interpreted insult which was deliberate or indeliberately implied due to a complete rutabaga-on-life-support state I may or may not have been in on achieving a state of waking semi consciousness ...
:p

Re: The new QWERTY device project
 

Gee, could have used you when Nokia had that burning platform...

Re: The new QWERTY device project
 

well....
THAT kind of burning platform I couldn't have helped with...
BUT...a controlled premature Elop burn would have gotten rid of the catastrophe before it had occurred ...

and we seem to be almost ready to disembark the maemo5 survival craft and get back onto a proper Leste based seaworthy vessel shortly...

woo hoo...
I'm all excited ...

Re: The new QWERTY device project
 

In 2018, I wonder what all are we doing wrong to where our concept of an ideal device places it in the hands of the niche, the homegrown or the crowdfunded.

Perhaps the problem starts and stops with people like us.

Just a random thought and perhaps a few beers factor in as well

Re: The new QWERTY device project
 

Wise words ;)

Re: The new QWERTY device project
 

possibly it is us...

In fact ...most definitely it is us...

If as was mentioned I don't know how many times ...
that nature favours the indolent, and lazy...
sure natural selection is there and working...
and evolution as well..
but
as well with our species ..we can come up with something really great...
and turn it into the lowest common denominator quickly...

I think tackling the problem from both ends is a good idea..

Problem 1
Too many garbage devices on the planet...
smothering and impeding really fine work that is attempted..

Problem 2
Too many people ...( I won't set criteria, or the bar at which we should debate getting rid of "excess cargo" on this planet ) that are using said junk devices...

There is a direct and easy to see line between the two...

I do however have a solution..

All it takes is just one successful start up and we can sort this universal problem out...

And it doesn't have to be a phone that has everything packed into it...

All it needs is one function....
a fun function...
what I have absconded from the term...
"Laser Pointer"
and we can "weed all the excess drones out of the bee hive"...(so to speak)

Simply "point" your phone and "tag" the offending individual / useless device .
The real expense and beauty of the system isn't IN the phone itself...
It is the uploaded exact geo - tag (of the offending device / individual) to the real cost...
the Satellite in orbit that acquires said uploaded coordinates ...and then promptly "lasers" the location to a fine ash.

2 problems solved in one...
a global population problem solved.
enough room for proper devices to flourish with folks intelligent enough to use them...

and fun too..

the " Laser Pointer"

I am sure SpaceX or any of the plentiful start ups could help us out with the satellite launch..at a reasonable price (considering the money that has been thrown at phone startups ...putting a Death Satellite in orbit is cheap...)

Re: The new QWERTY device project
 

Oh endso :eek::D:eek:
now I really begin to wonder: you are allright? :rolleyes:

or just missing morning coffee (as usual)? :)

Re: The new QWERTY device project
 

hmm

http://fanbrowser.com/wp-content/upl...ad5-bpfull.jpg

just having it now (morning coffee that is..)

My solution is just way too easy ...
If we don't do it first..
Android or Iphone will...
and WE may shortly be the cute little piles of ash on the ground...
we need to "up our game" here ...people..


get rid of pesky line-ups!
fun for the whole family!
relieve stress and work place tedium!
enable growing room for proper phone start ups!
and save the planet in an environmentally friendly way!

Laser Pointer!

Re: The new QWERTY device project
 

Did you even read the story of how this youyota project was launched. The story behind it is already legendary even compared to some really weird posts I have created over the years :D.

Still really sad to see so many jolla supporters lose money again.

Re: The new QWERTY device project
 

If their input offends you, add them to your ignore list.

Re: The new QWERTY device project
 

Ooooooh!
Is that a threat?
Please tell me it is....
And if any wish to join in and turn this solo into a choral arrangement...
Please raise your voices...
don't be shy...

I don't mind...
Just please give me a 24 hour heads up ...
on implementation of said proposed ban on me...


I may lark about now and again...
But I do alot more around here than some who's crowning achievement is to threaten banning...
Not to name names...

I do think I have a right to voice an opinion...
If it be topically or technologically relevant...
And I most certainly do see a great deal of opinion here at TMO all the time...in just about every thread...
And it isn't always topical or on tangent either.

As much as some may desire or actively get a persons posts deleted, a reprimand or a banning ...
Say for example ..
the case of Dave and his opinions on the Jolla fiasco he went through...
and people piping up and mods involved and such...
I should have piped up then...
and that is a shame on me...for not sticking up for him when he had and has ..every right to voice his complaint, concern and issue....
repeatedly if necessary...

Well I am definitely going to do so now.
Dave has most definitely been given the ugly end of the pointy stick.

If Dave's repeated mention of the crap he went through gets censored or deleted or he gets reprimanded for it ...
and he hasn't been (in my view) excessive in his statement...
then I will speak up...in support...every time.

People may wish such statements as his experience with Jolla or other devices ...silenced...

But that is hardly fair and unbiased ...
His stated experiences are as much a warning as anything else...
and should be classed as such..

Of course not everyone went through what he or others may have ...
But it does not invalidate what he went through or others went through.
Censoring or deleting or banning is not the answer..

(I do believe in finding solutions to problems not just voicing problems...and not offering solutions..)

At worst ...

Either moderators should simply condense his valid issues into a single post to save thread space...

Or....
A suggestion would be..

we have plenty of threads about how great such and such a device or platform is...
and we have plenty of threads about how "whatever" has this issue or that issue...

But we don't really have any dedicated threads concerning our overall concerns or issues or terrible experiences on specific devices / platforms / etc..or how terrible the after purchase service is
to have such posts moved to...

Some may think it is counterproductive to the delicate state or health of "..." device / platform / etc..

I do not share that view...
that turns this place into a place of "selective" knowledge ..that is detrimental to us all.

Keep up that kind of widespread behaviour here...
and believe me...
you won't have to ban me
I will walk away from this place.