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Posts: 2,225 | Thanked: 3,822 times | Joined on Jun 2010 @ Florida
#13
Originally Posted by Ken-Young View Post
I believe such packages should be removed. I was bitten by the unexpected overclocking after installing batterypatch. I didn't realize overclocking was happening until many days after I installed batterypatch, and I certainly didn't expect that program to change the clock rate, so it took me quite a while to figure out what had happened. I was not pleased....
Just so that this is noted, at least nowadays the description of the batterypatch package says that it overclocks the device. However, it's at the bottom of the description, where most users are unlikely to see it. (Sure we can say users should be more careful, and I'd agree, but even so something like an overclock should not automatically turn on without a clear affirmative from the end user.)

The other thing is if anyone goes and uploads a package that has batterypatch as a dependency, and that makes its way down to Extras or Extras-Testing, the dependency would be pulled with absolutely no warning or prompting to the user. So even if the description made it immediately obvious it overclocked, if it ever got pulled in as a dependency, users would not see its description unless they went out of their way to look.

Originally Posted by Estel View Post
This may have some sense only, if clear guidelines what is *not* allowed in package, would be prepared. Otherwise, packages with many influential people biased against them (batterypatch is good example here - heck, I'm also biased against it ) and/or bad fame, could get removed/harassed without thorough testing of actual state.

I certainly *don't* want to see packages removed, without good report about what serious and obligatory rules they've broken - especially, after perceiving first hand, how "objective" some people in tech staff are.
Originally Posted by Dave999 View Post
Removal from extras would be nice. Would also be nice with some logs of what is removed and why.
[Insert other quotes about clear explanations of how the removal is determined.]
Agreed, a log and clearly stated guidelines for what is grounds for package removal would be nice. The log part might require some serious community coder volunteering to get that done in a way that doesn't depend on the people doing it manually updating the logs, though.

Originally Posted by uros View Post
I think no. Mainly because is good thing to have choice. If any user wish to install those particular packages, this user have choice and responsibility.
There's still choice, because you can always install the packages manually or out of extras-devel if you really want to choose that path. Yes it's a pain and extra inconvenience to either manually get the packages, or to enable extras-devel in the app managers and expose yourself to a bunch of other risks.

But think about this: a package is damaging, and gets promoted to Extras because enough people liked it without realizing that it is damaging, do the people who download it from Extras (expecting it to be safe) really choose to possibly mess up their systems? No, they just get messed up by a bad package that they might not have the skill or ability to check the safety of.

Originally Posted by sixwheeledbeast View Post
I would like to point out the original report is here.
http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p...postcount=3325
I take it you didn't notice I linked straight to this post in the initial post of this thread?

Originally Posted by sixwheeledbeast View Post
Personally I don't see why they can't be removed completely. Leaving the sources in garage for potential future maintainers to repair.
- Because users' choices should not be confined to only things other users can concieve of them wanting.
- Because the whole point of extras-devel is to have a hellish no-man's land where things can brick your device, but into which people can still venture to grab prebuilt packages if they so desire.
- Because one person's "is damaging" is another person's "risk I want to take", so while we might collectively agree something is too damaging for us to allow into the repos for unsuspecting users, we shouldn't deny those who /do/ want to take those risks the benefits of packages produced by an autobuilder instead of forcing them to go to precompiled binaries or build their own copies from source. Willingly taking a specific risk (downloading known broken package) does not mean willingness to take other risks (use precompiled binaries that are less guaranteed to match source than the autobuilt ones), or that they should be forced to choose between those other risks, or extra inconvenience (compiling from source). Yes I realize *patch packages are largely scripts, not binaries, but in general the above applies.
- Because it means one less repository to check (in case all repos have different versions) for the techstaff/volunteers/council/whoever.

Originally Posted by Estel View Post
That, for example, is very bad reason to remove package - it should result in kindly asking maintainer to fix packaging, at most. Otherwise, we should remove 1/3 of extras, including some really good things from various "community heroes" here.
Agreed. You'll note I didn't actually say "licence/debian packaging standards incompatibilities" along with damaging/harmful as reasons. I just listed that because it was one of the problems listed by sixwheeledbeast during the meeting.
 

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