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abill_uk is offline abill_uk
2011-06-08 , 11:22
Banned | Posts: 3,412 | Thanked: 1,043 times | Joined on Feb 2010
#101
All it will take is a damm good device from the merger and Nokia will bounce back to fame and glory and i for sure think that will be the case, it is just a matter of when.
 
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NvyUs is offline NvyUs
2011-06-08 , 11:34
Posts: 1,885 | Thanked: 2,008 times | Joined on Aug 2009 @ OVI MAPS
#102
todays new rumour on WSJ, Samsung are preparing bid to buy Nokia.
 
bobh is offline bobh
2011-06-08 , 13:33
Posts: 62 | Thanked: 62 times | Joined on Jul 2010 @ New Hampshire, US
#103
Originally Posted by ericsson View Post
Then you should learn to read
I don't do well with "word salad". Makes my brain hurt. So sue me.

That poorly organized companies that grow up like mushrooms, surfing on some "new" wave of techhnologies, sooner o later fals down when that wave starts loosing its momentuma, is nothing new, and certainly not more typical in the IT sector than in any other sector.
Was Digital "poorly organized"? Wang? At one time both of those companies were at the top of the heap in their field. Suddenly, a few years later, they were gone. They failed to appreciate the impact a new technology would have on their business. They were executing just fine, but on the wrong things.

MS is trying, I will give them that. They seem to be making an effort to catch whatever the next wave is. Maybe it will work, maybe not. It sure is expensive though.

You may argue that MS and Nokia both are mushrooms, but the point is that Nokia is the archeotypical example of the opposite. MS have shown by now that they will survive.
If you would learn to read, you will find that I am not arguing that MS will go out of business. I am saying something different, that they will have the fate of IBM. Which is to say that they will continue to exist and make profits, but no longer be the "golden boy" they had been. Others will lead the market and MS will be an "also ran".


Another point is that neither MS or Nokia need to revolutionize anything. They only need to do what they are good at.
What is MS good at? Really they seem to only be good at desktop software for PC's. Their other ventures by and large have not panned out. They are lagging in search and in embedded systems, areas where they were talking big growth potential, and where others have seen big growth.

They have not shown any real talent for mobile devices in the past. Which is why WP7 is a make or break for them. If it fails, they they will be done in that market. It is moving too fast to just keep trying over and over like they did with XBox. Even MS doesn't have that much money.

Nokia on the other hand is making a huge gamble. The best outcome is that WP7 is a big success. But if that happens other vendors will start using it as well (I don't think they have an exclusive deal with MS) and Nokia will have no differentiation. They will be just like HTC. They will still exist, and probably make a profit, but they won't be the same Nokia they have been. That's the best case.

Worst case is that WP7 fails. It will be much harder on Nokia than on MS. I suppose they could always go back to rubber boots. Would you consider that a good outcome? That would be "survival", right?
 

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cBeam is offline cBeam
2011-06-08 , 17:08
Posts: 139 | Thanked: 224 times | Joined on Nov 2007 @ San Francisco, CA
#104
Trivia question of the day:

Who said this in a keynote at Qualcomm’s Uplinq?

"The point though is that I want Peter Chou, CEO of HTC, to be successful with Windows Phone. I want G.S. Choi at Samsung to be successful with Windows Phone."

[quote slightly edited for name and function of referred to persons]

a) Steve Ballmer, CEO of Microsoft
b) Larry Page, CEO of Google
c) Steve Jobs, Apple dude
d) Stephen Elop, CEO of Nokia
Last edited by cBeam; 2011-06-08 at 18:55. Reason: corrected spelling
 
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volt is offline volt
2011-06-08 , 17:23
Posts: 1,309 | Thanked: 1,187 times | Joined on Nov 2008
#105
Originally Posted by NvyUs View Post
todays new rumour on WSJ, Samsung are preparing bid to buy Nokia.
Yes, I read an article based on that Wall Street Journal rumor. The article was more wordy than the original article. There was an interesting claim there, but it's probably inaccurate or even completely false. It claimed however, very freely translated;
At first it was Microsoft considering to buy Nokia, but supposedly they did not come to an agreement.
I am making a new "what if" thread for the Samsung rumor
Last edited by volt; 2011-06-08 at 17:52.
 
ericsson is offline ericsson
2011-06-08 , 20:42
Banned | Posts: 974 | Thanked: 622 times | Joined on Oct 2010
#106
Originally Posted by bobh View Post
I don't do well with "word salad". Makes my brain hurt. So sue me.



Was Digital "poorly organized"? Wang? At one time both of those companies were at the top of the heap in their field. Suddenly, a few years later, they were gone. They failed to appreciate the impact a new technology would have on their business. They were executing just fine, but on the wrong things.

MS is trying, I will give them that. They seem to be making an effort to catch whatever the next wave is. Maybe it will work, maybe not. It sure is expensive though.



If you would learn to read, you will find that I am not arguing that MS will go out of business. I am saying something different, that they will have the fate of IBM. Which is to say that they will continue to exist and make profits, but no longer be the "golden boy" they had been. Others will lead the market and MS will be an "also ran".




What is MS good at? Really they seem to only be good at desktop software for PC's. Their other ventures by and large have not panned out. They are lagging in search and in embedded systems, areas where they were talking big growth potential, and where others have seen big growth.

They have not shown any real talent for mobile devices in the past. Which is why WP7 is a make or break for them. If it fails, they they will be done in that market. It is moving too fast to just keep trying over and over like they did with XBox. Even MS doesn't have that much money.

Nokia on the other hand is making a huge gamble. The best outcome is that WP7 is a big success. But if that happens other vendors will start using it as well (I don't think they have an exclusive deal with MS) and Nokia will have no differentiation. They will be just like HTC. They will still exist, and probably make a profit, but they won't be the same Nokia they have been. That's the best case.

Worst case is that WP7 fails. It will be much harder on Nokia than on MS. I suppose they could always go back to rubber boots. Would you consider that a good outcome? That would be "survival", right?
Ok, then. Digital, Wang, IBM all failed in some way or the other, therefore Nokia/MS will fail, they are bound to do the same mistakes.
 
bobh is offline bobh
2011-06-09 , 00:24
Posts: 62 | Thanked: 62 times | Joined on Jul 2010 @ New Hampshire, US
#107
Originally Posted by ericsson View Post
Ok, then. Digital, Wang, IBM all failed in some way or the other, therefore Nokia/MS will fail, they are bound to do the same mistakes.
My point is that lots of companies have been prone to the same kind of mistakes. So a company doing well in one area (like desktop software) is not a reason to assume it will do well in other areas (like mobile devices).

As I said, MS seems to be aware of this. Perhaps they wll be the exception. I won't bet my retirement savings on it.
 
abill_uk is offline abill_uk
2011-06-09 , 00:31
Banned | Posts: 3,412 | Thanked: 1,043 times | Joined on Feb 2010
#108
I posted this link in the other thread but it is probably more applicable on this thread ...
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-13682580

Fitch cuts Nokia's bonds to one step above junk status.
 
geneven is offline geneven
2011-06-09 , 00:45
Posts: 5,795 | Thanked: 3,151 times | Joined on Feb 2007 @ Agoura Hills Calif
#109
To me, this seems like the biggest crash since the collapse of the Soviet Union. Well, maybe that's overstating it. Biggest crash since Enron?

I have noticed that many companies seen holding hands with Microsoft end up sleeping with the fishes.
__________________
All I want is 40 acres, a mule, and Xterm.
 

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olighak is offline olighak
2011-06-09 , 00:45
Posts: 519 | Thanked: 366 times | Joined on Sep 2009 @ North Carolina (Formerly Denmark and Iceland)
#110
Originally Posted by cBeam View Post
Trivia question of the day:

Who said this in a keynote at Qualcomm’s Uplinq?

"The point though is that I want Peter Chou, CEO of HTC, to be successful with Windows Phone. I want G.S. Choi at Samsung to be successful with Windows Phone."

[quote slightly edited for name and function of referred to persons]

a) Steve Ballmer, CEO of Microsoft
b) Larry Page, CEO of Google
c) Steve Jobs, Apple dude
d) Stephen Elop, CEO of Nokia
Well, if it was anyone else than a then we have a potential problem.

If it was d then all of Nokia, shareholders and employees have a huge problem. It´s then obvious the F/E-lop is working for Microsoft and not Nokia at all.
 

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