Another proof Elop is a trojan horse - Page 10 - maemo.org

ericsson | # 91 | 2011-07-07, 15:22 | Report

Originally Posted by patlak View Post

It's not a gain for Nokia. Having Ovi Maps on other WP7 devices is a gain for MS and other manufacturers. What will force an HTC fan to buy a Nokia WP7 when he will ge the wanted service on an HTC phone with a larger screen for instance? Nokia will lose phone sales while others will gain. Nokia won't be able to differentiate its products with no free lifetime Ovi Maps exclusivity.

I have no clue to what you are trying to say. What has screen size to do with the inherent value of ovi maps for nokia?

shallimus | # 92 | 2011-07-07, 15:31 | Report

Originally Posted by patlak View Post

It's not a gain for Nokia. Having Ovi Maps on other WP7 devices is a gain for MS and other manufacturers. What will force an HTC fan to buy a Nokia WP7 when he will ge the wanted service on an HTC phone with a larger screen for instance? Nokia will lose phone sales while others will gain. Nokia won't be able to differentiate its products with no free lifetime Ovi Maps exclusivity.

Agree. Google turns the stuff they give away into one of the biggest advertising revenue streams on the planet. Past the Golden Pick-up-the-soap one-time payment from MSFT to Nokia, what was Nokia's plan to make money from all this again?

Originally Posted by ericsson View Post

I have no clue to what you are trying to say. What has screen size to do with the inherent value of ovi maps for nokia?

To spell it out: two phones have identical Ovi map services. One phone is from Nokia. One is from HTC, and has a bigger screen, which acts as the tie-breaker in a purchasing decision in favour of the HTC Phone. Nokia loses a sale.

In conclusion:

give away the cool stuff which previously allowed you to differentiate your products from those of your competitors
???
Profit!

Last edited by shallimus; 2011-07-07 at 15:41.

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TheLongshot | # 93 | 2011-07-07, 16:10 | Report

Originally Posted by NokTokDaddy View Post

In the meantime Symbian is far from dead: My N8 is just as usable and relevant as my N900 or any other device:

Usable? Certainly. Relevant? I agree that both are equally irrelevant.

Originally Posted by

We must understand that the problem with getting Windows Phone for Nokia going was going to be one of slowing the all-but implacable momentum of the giant that is Symbian. As the Elder OS, Symbian might crush the younger and currently less-capable Windows Phone. Symbian is huge, a monster with a life and trajectory of its own - that is why Elop has done all he can to be seen to 'kill' Symbian.

As if he could!

I think you underestimate how his actions affected Symbian. Certainly you can see it in the stock price: most think Symbian is dead and that there is little to look forward to with Nokia. Fact is Elop royally ****ed up in that he made such an announcement without having another product to fill the gap. A few months later and we still don't really know when Nokia will release their first Windows Phone. Meanwhile, the N9 is coming out and Elop has done a lot to undercut that. Who the hell thinks that's a smart way to run a business?

Originally Posted by

Nokia will be far more than a manufacturer of Windows Phone devices - that was the deal on offer from Google if they adopted Android. Nokia will work with Microsoft and other participant manufacturers to build and shape Windows Phone.

Which, again, benefits Microsoft more than it does Nokia.

Originally Posted by

Your last comment is very true: Nokia will not be the same ever again. It has been toppled by fast-growing competition since 2007 and came close to being unrecoverable.

But this is a dynamic and unpredictable industry; who could've predicted just four years ago the rise of the Android, the growth of Samsung, HTC, Huwawei and ZTE, the fall of Sony-Ericson, Motorola and, of course, Nokia.

Given the new direction, they might as well be unrecoverable for the purposes of this forum. We were drawn to the power of Maemo and the promise of its potential. Elop seems to be doing everything possible to kill that dream, with nothing to replace it. It certainly won't be Windows Phone.

Speaking as a Nokia stockholder, I'm also disappointed in that aspect, because I'm wondering when Nokia is going to come out with a product that they are going to be fully behind. Certainly not for the rest of this year.

Last edited by TheLongshot; 2011-07-07 at 16:28.

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umo120 | # 94 | 2011-07-07, 16:11 | Report

Originally Posted by ericsson View Post

Why so paranoid? Google "gives away" an entire OS for "free", maps, mail and all kinds of online services. Nokia has for several years now worked on developing an OS (several in fact) that is open source and free. So suddenly letting MS use Ovi Maps is the end of the world as we know it? I mean, please - you are not thinking straight, not at all. The only value of Ovi Maps is people using it, more users means more money for Nokia. Ovi Maps is hell of a lot better than anything Google has managed to cook together, so WP using Ovi Maps is a net gain for both Nokia and MS, but mostly for Nokia.

Uh, I didn't said it is the end of world, I merely asked what Nokia gets in return. I can't see how it can have more users with MS, because WP7 has no users to speak of and even if it gains some in 2012, it will be only because of Nokia brand and it's loyal customers. Besides, last time I checked Nokia isn't advertising company so I don't see the business case of giving away products google/tv/newspaper style. But sure, Mr. Elop wants to differentiate and this is the easiest way to do it.

Originally Posted by ericsson View Post

Nokia and MS cannot be understood without understanding the concept of ecosystem.

Funny you are bringing this ecosystem thing, because again what is MS adding to MS/Nokia ecosystem? I see no users, no developers, no apps, no manufactures, no carriers support, no maps, no store, ... Everything is either directly from Nokia or is in the "future potential" category that mainly depends Nokia's ability to leverage WP7 with its brand to bring its customers and developers.

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Dave999 | # 95 | 2011-07-07, 16:30 | Report

MS have to collect hundreds of millions from all vendors for selling andorid. What if they used that as a trade off to promote and let the vendors use windows instead of, or togheter with andorid.

At the same time use nokia to push hard in all markets. That would give them some major market shares in a second

patlak | # 96 | 2011-07-07, 16:36 | Report

Originally Posted by Dave999 View Post

MS have to collect hundreds of millions from all vendors for selling andorid. What if they used that as a trade off to promote and let the vendors use windows instead of, or togheter with andorid.

At the same time use nokia to push hard in all markets. That would give them some major market shares in a second

The royalties collected are used for the one time payment to Nokia. MS bought Nokia with pocket money, REALLY!!!

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Dave999 | # 97 | 2011-07-07, 16:50 | Report

HTC paid, and samsung are up next...Would be nice if they kicked out android for Win7

. To bad its not gonna happen

ericsson | # 98 | 2011-07-07, 16:51 | Report

Originally Posted by shallimus View Post

Agree. Google turns the stuff they give away into one of the biggest advertising revenue streams on the planet. Past the Golden Pick-up-the-soap one-time payment from MSFT to Nokia, what was Nokia's plan to make money from all this again?

To spell it out: two phones have identical Ovi map services. One phone is from Nokia. One is from HTC, and has a bigger screen, which acts as the tie-breaker in a purchasing decision in favour of the HTC Phone. Nokia loses a sale.

In conclusion:

give away the cool stuff which previously allowed you to differentiate your products from those of your competitors
???
Profit!

So what you are saying is that bigger screen always win

Seriously, that is exactly what you are saying. So Nokia should protect their Ovi Map in case some other manufacturer releases a device with a larger screen.

As I said, you simply cannot understand this except on the basis of ecosystem. It is the services that makes money, the devices are only platforms for the services. Ovi Map = Nokia Service. I cannot think of a better way to extract $ from your competitors than putting your high valued service on his device.

ericsson | # 99 | 2011-07-07, 17:21 | Report

Originally Posted by umo120 View Post

Uh, I didn't said it is the end of world, I merely asked what Nokia gets in return. I can't see how it can have more users with MS, because WP7 has no users to speak of and even if it gains some in 2012, it will be only because of Nokia brand and it's loyal customers. Besides, last time I checked Nokia isn't advertising company so I don't see the business case of giving away products google/tv/newspaper style. But sure, Mr. Elop wants to differentiate and this is the easiest way to do it.

Funny you are bringing this ecosystem thing, because again what is MS adding to MS/Nokia ecosystem? I see no users, no developers, no apps, no manufactures, no carriers support, no maps, no store, ... Everything is either directly from Nokia or is in the "future potential" category that mainly depends Nokia's ability to leverage WP7 with its brand to bring its customers and developers.

You are worse than Mr Me and I Clown danramos. Who cares what YOU see? Of course every single thing regarding Nokia is in future potential right now. Have the Nokia stock values completely passed you by? WP already have more than 20 thousand apps, and is increasing by the minute. MS has a modern fully functional OS and ecosystem. More people use hotmail than gmail, much more. They have X-box with direct integration to the OS. And the only way to connect your device with a PC is by using MS Windows.

Most people have no idea who Elop is, and they couldn't care less. They see a cool looking device with Nokia and Microsoft logo being advertised with all they ever need pre-installed and on top of that, 30k apps (rapidly growing) to download. Sure an HTC or LG or Samsung will have similar devices, but not similar build quality, similar style and similar looks, similar camera quality, similar reception quality, similar sound quality, but most of all, nowhere near the out of the box complete features. And if they do, it will be no big deal, they will run on Nokia-MS ecosystem.

patlak | # 100 | 2011-07-07, 17:39 | Report

Originally Posted by ericsson View Post

So what you are saying is that bigger screen always win

Seriously, that is exactly what you are saying. So Nokia should protect their Ovi Map in case some other manufacturer releases a device with a larger screen.

As I said, you simply cannot understand this except on the basis of ecosystem. It is the services that makes money, the devices are only platforms for the services. Ovi Map = Nokia Service. I cannot think of a better way to extract $ from your competitors than putting your high valued service on his device.

You either really don't get it, or are just an outrageously stubborn person. The larger screen was just an example. Nokia may offer a phone with a 4 inch screen while HTC, Samsung may offer with 4.3, 4.5 and 4.7 inch screens. That for someone could be the deciding factor. I am not saying the bigger screen might be better, but if somebody chose it over the 4 inch Nokia, it's a lost sale for Nokia. Additionally, Samsung may also be the first with a 20 megapixel camera, 3gb ram, HTC may be the first dual core WP7, etc which all matter to Average JOE. If all of those phones offer Ovi Maps, who do you think will gain? Software wise, you get the service that would have forced you earlier to buy a Symbian phone, but now they all have it. Nokia is at a loss. Offering that service was the one thing to differentiate themselves from other manufacturers (lifetime free offline and online voice guided navigation).

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