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2007-12-05
, 15:13
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Posts: 3,524 |
Thanked: 2,958 times |
Joined on Oct 2007
@ Delta Quadrant
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#12
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Originally Posted by TA-t3
Cheers mate! Of course, there's always a way!
The limited frame buffer size is probably because the chip was designed for use with a smaller LCD screen than what's installed in the N8xx. It's a pity, but (as I was about to say, then I noticed the Capt'n used the exact same words!).. there's always a way!
Imagine the the N8xx having lightning fast, true transparency menus, perfectly sharp vector icons and menu decorations, scaling windows (ala mac OSX), and playable ports of 3D linux games. Additionally, 3D would open the floor for different types of applications considering that the MBX has shader support.
Even with rendering limitations (slow speeds, reduced resolution, reduced colour depth), it would at least acclimatize the community to using OpenGL w/ N8xx software, and set up the necessary foundations for buttery smooth 3D when the (speculated) OMAP 3430 powered N900 arrives.
}:^)~
YARR!
Capt'n Corrupt
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2007-12-05
, 15:38
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Posts: 2,102 |
Thanked: 1,309 times |
Joined on Sep 2006
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#13
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I think the point here, if you read the thread that was linked, is that the PowerVR is supposed to do its processing in internal memory (internal to the PowerVR chip, and I don't think this is the OMAP's 5Mbit framebuffer). Therefore, it doesn't matter that the OMAP's framebuffer is only 5Mbit as it's not used.
The PowerVR is mapped via kernel memory, so presumably there should be no limit other than the inherent bandwidth limit of the link to the lcd controller.
The PowerVR is mapped via kernel memory, so presumably there should be no limit other than the inherent bandwidth limit of the link to the lcd controller.
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2007-12-05
, 16:43
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Posts: 4,930 |
Thanked: 2,272 times |
Joined on Oct 2007
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#14
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Originally Posted by Capt'n Corrupt
Possible, but I think in practice simply reducing the dynamic screen area would be better. The whole video controller bandwidth issue limits framerates at 800x480; by reducing the size transferred, 30 FPS should be workable.
That's such a strange limitation. Currently there's a framebuffer capable of holding the entire screen. Perhaps the rendering can be done in two 800x240 halves, and then blitted to memory. Not ideal, as it would incur losses, but the framerate may be acceptable enough for 3D animation.
It may even be possible to render an 8 bit depth. With a proper palette, dithering, and the N8xx pixel density, the resultant 3D may be adequately convincing.
But as lardman pointed out, this may be no issue at all. It's not well understood at present, at least by me.
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2007-12-05
, 17:44
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Posts: 201 |
Thanked: 88 times |
Joined on Aug 2007
@ San Francisco, CA
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#15
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I just started trying out Second Life a few days ago, and was wondering this myself... but as a joke.
My main laptop chokes on Second Life right now, so I don't think the N800 will get it anytime soon. <_<;
My main laptop chokes on Second Life right now, so I don't think the N800 will get it anytime soon. <_<;
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2007-12-05
, 17:55
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Posts: 29 |
Thanked: 2 times |
Joined on Nov 2007
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#16
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One thing i know is the guys over at Linden had a version for windows mobile working. I missed the download by a day.. They may have taken it off because of speed or something. But it did exist for windows mobile.
CJ
CJ
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2007-12-05
, 17:56
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Posts: 3,524 |
Thanked: 2,958 times |
Joined on Oct 2007
@ Delta Quadrant
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#17
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Originally Posted by Benson
Certianly. It would also be far easier to reduce resolution and more effective on the N810. It may be, in this case, possible to use the same pixel-doubling technique for achieving high video playback framerates. A good solution for full-screen 3D given the systems bus limitations.
Possible, but I think in practice simply reducing the dynamic screen area would be better. The whole video controller bandwidth issue limits framerates at 800x480; by reducing the size transferred, 30 FPS should be workable.
Originally Posted by Benson
Not directly, no, but with clever use of a simple shader, one could create a dithered 8bpp image from a 16bpp portion of the rendered frame. Each produced 8bpp portion could be accumulated on the framebuffer in a series of blits to compose the final full resolution frame.
I don't think this will work; I'm no expert, but I don't know of any 3D accelerated stuff done in a paletted video mode. I think it has to render in RGB. You could do 8 bits of RGB, with 2-3 bits per color, but that would look awful. Dithering works by rendering in high color depth, then replacing a color with a pattern at low depth. The (potential) issue here is requiring us to render into a 5Mbit buffer, so we would not have high-depth data to reduce.
Anyway, if what Lardman says is accurate, such an implementation would be a completely unnecessary waste of time.
As an aside: I wonder if anyone has clocked the theoretical refresh of the N8xx using an 8-bit colour depth. Would this make a difference? Can it be done? No point to the question really, other than curiosity.
But...
Originally Posted by Benson
Neither I, but I really enjoy the dialog!
as lardman pointed out, this may be no issue at all. It's not well understood at present, at least by me.
}:^)~
YARR!
Capt'n Corrupt
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2007-12-05
, 18:01
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Posts: 3,524 |
Thanked: 2,958 times |
Joined on Oct 2007
@ Delta Quadrant
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#18
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Originally Posted by lardman
I could have sworn I had read that before... Thanks for the info!
I think the point here, if you read the thread that was linked, is that the PowerVR is supposed to do its processing in internal memory (internal to the PowerVR chip, and I don't think this is the OMAP's 5Mbit framebuffer). Therefore, it doesn't matter that the OMAP's framebuffer is only 5Mbit as it's not used.
The PowerVR is mapped via kernel memory, so presumably there should be no limit other than the inherent bandwidth limit of the link to the lcd controller.
Good news indeed (if it's true) for the N8xx *if* drivers existed for the PowerVR MBX.
I'll go and read the rest of the post now...
}:^j~
YARR!
Capt'n Corrupt
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2008-03-04
, 22:49
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Posts: 53 |
Thanked: 44 times |
Joined on Feb 2008
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#19
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The main Second Life client is far surpassing the capabilities of the n800, even assuming the 3d engine could be utilized. Since everything in Second Life is user created, use of textures is certainly not optimized. Quake on running on old PC's has a small texture set - SL could easily have 100's (if not 1000's) of discrete textures (up to 1024x1024 in resolution each) in active view, which the Nokia's 128megs of RAM would be chewed up in no time. Also worth noting is the client code is not particularly great at utilizing the resources provided to it.
Now, there is a possibility that some form of simplified client could be utilized. Since Mono is ported, in theory LibSecondlife based applications should be usable on the Nokias. Once I get Mono set up on my recently aquired n800, one of my plans is to attempt this (and perhaps even attempt to run OpenSim on it for kicks.
)
Now, there is a possibility that some form of simplified client could be utilized. Since Mono is ported, in theory LibSecondlife based applications should be usable on the Nokias. Once I get Mono set up on my recently aquired n800, one of my plans is to attempt this (and perhaps even attempt to run OpenSim on it for kicks.
)
N800/OS2007|N900/Maemo5
-- Metalayer-crawler delenda est.
-- Current state: Fed up with everything MeeGo.