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mikecomputing is offline mikecomputing
2011-08-23 , 16:31
Posts: 3,464 | Thanked: 5,107 times | Joined on Feb 2010 @ Gothenburg in Sweden
#291
Originally Posted by momcilo View Post
Yes, that is the present situation, are you sure about the future?
if you take a look at he Qt blogs you will see that Qt wanted even more open development after february.

some may infact take this as bad cause some may think "nokia abandons Qt development" so no I see NO WAY nokia close it again. But if they did the community would for sure fork the code... Another example Oracle tried to closed source open office but failed...
 
mikecomputing is offline mikecomputing
2011-08-23 , 16:40
Posts: 3,464 | Thanked: 5,107 times | Joined on Feb 2010 @ Gothenburg in Sweden
#292
Originally Posted by abill_uk View Post
The Foss community obviously works for free in the development area BUT how the community is put together and works is what takes the time.

You obviously do not understand what i am going on about here.

Look at this community and look at the arguments that go on, is all too far from the professional way it should be as developers should have the respect they deserve.

Members should be somewhat vetted and made to sign an agreement NOT to do anything but develop and help development in every way without argument.

Maybe an impossible situation to make happen in this world ?.
no big foss projecs does NOT work without payed employers. small apps yes but not big projects.
 

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Graham Cobb is offline Graham Cobb
2011-08-23 , 16:42
Posts: 162 | Thanked: 351 times | Joined on Apr 2006 @ Cotswolds, UK
#293
Originally Posted by SD69 View Post
The problem is wider even than that.
Care to explain? In my view, the problem which needs addressing now is to make sure anyone can make available any or all of the material needed to continue to allow people to use and develop on their devices.

I disagree. I think there is plenty enough interest in a self-governing community promoting the only existing GNU/Linux SW for mobile devices.
Here we will need to agree to differ.

Neither do I. The only thing worse is that it never gets distributed.
I do not believe that having one single entity with a right to distribute, but not everyone else, is actually significantly better than no one having the right.

That is partly because I cannot see any sort of formal entity continuing more than a few months. But it is also because I think that we want to allow for commercial entities: for example, if someone was to start to offer reconditioned N900 devices, they would want the right to distribute the necessary binaries, if they were not available from Nokia any more. We need to get Nokia to allow the right for anyone to distribute all the material.
 
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Texrat is offline Texrat
2011-08-23 , 17:50
Posts: 11,700 | Thanked: 10,045 times | Joined on Jun 2006 @ North Texas, USA
#294
I'm frustrated by and disappointed in some of the comments made on this subject, which persist in a counterproductive focus on personalities rather than the critical details.

I continue to see blame assigned for people daring to have a strong opinion one way or the other. Can we please get off of that? Unless it's a case of deliberate trolling, members have every right to express their thoughts on the subject, even if they support a complete dissolution of the maemo community. Keep in mind support != power... even for longtime members. Someone can advocate an end all they like-- that doesn't mean they have the power to bring it about.

Every person has a right to their emotions, and no one has the right to declare those emotions are inappropriate. That's only true of actions.

This thread is about discussion, and no action mentioned by anyone is binding.

It saddens me to see longtime members essentially at each others' throats. Maybe that's hyperbolic, but that's how I perceive some communications. I would like to see the heightened rhetoric ramped down. Separate issues from personalities. Enough blamestorming.

Thanks.

EDIT: this is a general rant and not linked to immediately preceding posts.
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Last edited by Texrat; 2011-08-23 at 18:23.
 

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Estel is offline Estel
2011-08-23 , 18:32
Posts: 5,028 | Thanked: 8,613 times | Joined on Mar 2011
#295
Going back on topic, I second approach of legal entity. And I think legal entity != "only one with rights to distribute nokia repos". If Nokia would like to allow "anyone" to redistribute - which I doubt - that's okay. Ho ever, as legal entity, IMO, we get better chances to redistribute it at all, in any form.

Also, providing forum, repos, and wiki = some costs. You (Graham) would be surprised, how popular (downloads/day) maemo repos are. I don't see good options to legally pay bills, without forming legal entity - at least, if we don't want financial police (or how it's called it any country) to get into our a**.

Also, forming legal Entity doesn't force us to do anything - even to prolong it existence, if we conclude that it's not way to do - but gives possibilities. I see no rationale behind just dropping this possibility.
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SD69 is offline SD69
2011-08-23 , 19:00
Posts: 1,513 | Thanked: 2,248 times | Joined on Mar 2006 @ US
#296
Originally Posted by Graham Cobb View Post
Care to explain? In my view, the problem which needs addressing now is to make sure anyone can make available any or all of the material needed to continue to allow people to use and develop on their devices.


Here we will need to agree to differ.


I do not believe that having one single entity with a right to distribute, but not everyone else, is actually significantly better than no one having the right.

That is partly because I cannot see any sort of formal entity continuing more than a few months. But it is also because I think that we want to allow for commercial entities: for example, if someone was to start to offer reconditioned N900 devices, they would want the right to distribute the necessary binaries, if they were not available from Nokia any more. We need to get Nokia to allow the right for anyone to distribute all the material.
A properly organized community that is proactive can be a facilitator, not a barrier, to the promotion of maemo based and derived SW for mobile devices, including its use by commercial entities. Nokia is probably going to do as little as possible for such SW once they launch WP7. Somebody has to carry the ball or it will be dropped.
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Graham Cobb is offline Graham Cobb
2011-08-23 , 19:07
Posts: 162 | Thanked: 351 times | Joined on Apr 2006 @ Cotswolds, UK
#297
Estel, thanks for your constructive post. While I don't completely agree with your conclusions, you make some very good points and I think this is exactly what should be discussed.

Does anyone have any stats on traffic from the repositories? I realise this is hard to measure with the CDN but I was hoping someone gets reports. Preferably with some previous data so we can see some trends. If we don't have data now, can we get some over the next 12 months so we know what the costs would be (whether it is simply provided by a private individual or arranged through a legal entity)?

EDIT: Please don't interpret my first paragraph as suggesting that SD69's comment is not constructive or valuable. It wasn't there when I originally composed this reply!
Last edited by Graham Cobb; 2011-08-23 at 19:10. Reason: Clarification
 

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momcilo is offline momcilo
2011-08-23 , 19:15
Posts: 673 | Thanked: 856 times | Joined on Mar 2006
#298
Originally Posted by Texrat View Post
I'm frustrated by and disappointed in some of the comments made on this subject, which persist in a counterproductive focus on personalities rather than the critical details.

I continue to see blame assigned for people daring to have a strong opinion one way or the other. Can we please get off of that? Unless it's a case of deliberate trolling, members have every right to express their thoughts on the subject, even if they support a complete dissolution of the maemo community. Keep in mind support != power... even for longtime members. Someone can advocate an end all they like-- that doesn't mean they have the power to bring it about.

Every person has a right to their emotions, and no one has the right to declare those emotions are inappropriate. That's only true of actions.

This thread is about discussion, and no action mentioned by anyone is binding.

It saddens me to see longtime members essentially at each others' throats. Maybe that's hyperbolic, but that's how I perceive some communications. I would like to see the heightened rhetoric ramped down. Separate issues from personalities. Enough blamestorming.

Thanks.

EDIT: this is a general rant and not linked to immediately preceding posts.
Texrat, there are always opinions. The way I see it this pointless struggle is several months long already. I think both sides should accept that other side is entitled to different opinions and choices, and should abstain from causing the harm to the other side.

My positions was clearly stated in this topic (and what I think about meego), but I do not wish to impose on those willing to support meego. Every member of community can choose which path to follow. That is certainly not binding in any way.

Very rarely there are honourable people able to appreciate both views and perhaps contribute to the cause of both sides.

Having a distro that is handled and supported by big corporations is good as long as there are open community distributions as an alternative choices. That provides us with redundant solutions for the future. Each path has its own dangers. Having a single path is the riskiest scenario.
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Last edited by momcilo; 2011-08-23 at 19:20.
 

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gerbick
2011-08-23 , 19:17
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#299
Originally Posted by abill_uk View Post
Don't work on communities that are free to join because any twit can join it just to create arguments among members.
No, seriously. Show me one example of your idea that actually works.

Here's a hint: it doesn't exist
 
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Estel is offline Estel
2011-08-23 , 19:52
Posts: 5,028 | Thanked: 8,613 times | Joined on Mar 2011
#300
Originally Posted by Graham Cobb View Post
Does anyone have any stats on traffic from the repositories? I realise this is hard to measure with the CDN but I was hoping someone gets reports. Preferably with some previous data so we can see some trends. If we don't have data now, can we get some over the next 12 months so we know what the costs would be (whether it is simply provided by a private individual or arranged through a legal entity)?
that's the thing requested long time ago many times (and You're definitely right, requesting it again), but for unknown (for me) reasons, was never answered. So, again bugging Council - who have data like this and how/when can we acquire it?
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