Video playback epic fail: My N8 plays 1080p My N9 couldn't even play 720p - Page 11 - maemo.org

Mentalist Traceur | # 101 | 2011-12-07, 02:01 | Report

I haven't ready and of the thread except a couple posts, but:

Originally Posted by snowparang View Post

Sure, we can re-encode ('recode'?) the videos to ensure smooth playback on the N9. But aren't we losing details and getting a more compressed video? In other words, we COMPROMISE.

You compromise just as much if not more anyway, because almost no phone actually has 720p, let alone 1080p, resolution. The quality is lost when viewed on the device either way. Re-encoding lets you consciously choose how much of the quality you are able to retain, up to the maximum possible for the screen it's being played on, while a device that plays 1080p video on a 480p screen, for example, will probably gut the quality of the video as it's displayed on-device more so than manually re-encoding would.

Not that I personally disagree with allowing such a feature anyway, and as far as I'm concerned there's no reason not to have such a feature.

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jakiman | # 102 | 2011-12-07, 02:12 | Report

Originally Posted by snowparang View Post

1 year later, the N9 is released. It has a 1 Ghz CPU (similiar or even faster than iPhone 4 as I recall). It carries the tagline 'fluidity'. I think as a consumer, it would not be unreasonable to assume that the N9 have the same if not better media capabilities than the N8. For example, the N9's photo gallery is definitely much faster than the N8.

snip....

I really do hope this is just a software optimisation issue and not really a hardware limitation.

N9 has a much weaker GPU than last year's iPhone4 or SGS1. Basically, N900 and N9 has nearly the same SoC except the CPU frequency and power efficiency. (which can also be equalled by overclocking the N900 to 1GHz or faster) This was done to speed up the production of the N9 as Maemo/Harmattan was built on OMAP3.

It's a hardware limitation and not something software can improve. N9 won't be able to decode high profile 720p x264 videos due to its weak DSP while N8 can do some of it. N8 is actually more capable than the N9 in terms of media consumption. (better DSP, FM TX, HDMI out, stronger bluetooth signal, louder speaker, better music player etc) So yeah, N9 doesn't deserve the N8 successor "N" series badget IMO. It should have been called the M9 or something. =P

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ste-phan | # 103 | 2011-12-07, 02:35 | Report

Originally Posted by Copernicus View Post

However, please note that the N8 has a screen resolution of 640 x 360 pixels. You may be able to play HD resolution videos on the thing, but you sure as heck ain't going to be seeing the higher resolution.

Why would one stick to the phone display and built in display resolution? It is not like the N8 appears to play said HD video's better because of its lower native resolution.

Both phones N8 and N9 have TV out.

My N9 can't play a random DivX smoothly enough on a low res non HD TV (where the TV out on the N9 is aimed at).

The N8 plays those smoothly and even HD is within reach.

Originally Posted by Copernicus View Post

I'm no expert, but I'm fairly certain that the entire decoding process is in fact hardware-assisted. The CPUs in these phones just can't manage the decode fast enough to supply the video data in real time, even for fairly low resolution video, unless perhaps the bitrate is miserably low. (The VLC guys completely gave up trying to port their software-based decoder onto the N900, and I think it was pretty much for that reason.)

Yes. Exactly that hardware decoding thing shines on the N8.
We were watching a random DivX on a HD Plasma connected Macbook so called Pro, 2.8Ghz with Latest VLC software version.
Stutter and frame skips.

Instead of wasting time tweaking VLC on OSX, while in fact just wanting to watch an old technology video smoothly and now, I took a random N8 laying on the table, copied the random DivX to the N8, connected it to the HDMI and it not only saved the day but we learned the colour rendition and rendering was richer and sharper on our plasma.
Hardware decoding.

Conclusion: the N8 delivers out of the box.

And I can't pull the same trick with my N9. Tried it.

Both phones may be able to play the same HD originated video material on their low res built in display with satisfactory results after tweaking.
But seriously, re-encoding,converting: are you guys having year 200X nostalgia?

The N9 screen is inviting for watching movies on it. And the video's look beautiful on it.
Too bad the black spots are in the way during dark scenes and you can't ask it to play more than a random low res video.

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patlak | # 104 | 2011-12-07, 02:35 | Report

Originally Posted by jakiman View Post

N9 has a much weaker GPU than last year's iPhone4 or SGS1. Basically, N900 and N9 has nearly the same SoC except the CPU frequency and power efficiency. (which can also be equalled by overclocking the N900 to 1GHz or faster) This was done to speed up the production of the N9 as Maemo/Harmattan was built on OMAP3.

It's a hardware limitation and not something software can improve. N9 won't be able to decode high profile 720p x264 videos due to its weak DSP while N8 can do some of it. N8 is actually more capable than the N9 in terms of media consumption. (better DSP, FM TX, HDMI out, stronger bluetooth signal, louder speaker, better music player etc) So yeah, N9 doesn't deserve the N8 successor "N" series badget IMO. It should have been called the M9 or something. =P

AFAIK, SGX530 and 535 are equally powerful. The only difference is the DirectX 9.0c support on the 535. Geometry performance is the same.

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patlak | # 105 | 2011-12-07, 02:40 | Report

Originally Posted by ste-phan View Post

Too bad the black spots are in the way during dark scenes and you can't ask it to play more than a random low res video.

In what world is 854x480 considered low res on mobile phones? The current standard is 800x480 and N9 is higher than that. Get a clue. 720p on a phone is a serious battery eater. If you wanna watch HD movies on a phone, you better have a secondary phone that actually serves as a "phone" and will be capable of answering calls.

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Copernicus | # 106 | 2011-12-07, 02:46 | Report

Originally Posted by snowparang View Post

Sure, we can re-encode ('recode'?) the videos to ensure smooth playback on the N9. But aren't we losing details and getting a more compressed video? In other words, we COMPROMISE.

This is, in fact, exactly what the hardware on other phones is doing: no matter how powerful their video hardware is, they've still gotta crunch the resolution down into the native screen size of the phone, and normally will end up dropping some details anyway because there's just too much data in a HD video for even high-end silicon to deal with in real time. You have to compromise (in many ways) to watch video on such tiny devices.

The advantage in re-encoding videos to match the native screen size of your phone is that you can actually increase the quality of the reduced-sized picture (as the software is not forced to do its resizing work in real-time), and because there are literally less bits being stored, you can support a higher bitrate (i.e., less compression) than you could with an HD resolution video.

Copernicus | # 107 | 2011-12-07, 03:11 | Report

Originally Posted by ste-phan View Post

Why would one stick to the phone display and built in display resolution? It is not like the N8 appears to play said HD video's better because of its lower native resolution.

Perhaps because you want to watch the video on the phone itself?

The N8's HDMI output is really nice, but honestly, I rarely find myself wanting to play a video from my phone onto a TV. Most of the time, I just want to play the thing directly on my phone so that I can watch it wherever I happen to be.

Originally Posted by ste-phan View Post

We were watching a random DivX on a HD Plasma connected Macbook so called Pro, 2.8Ghz with Latest VLC software version.
Stutter and frame skips.

VLC is a software based video decoder. Uses no dedicated hardware. For the Mac, your best bets for decoding video are:

(a) MplayerX: most up-to-date video player at the moment, supports Hi10P video and uses the Mac's hardware decoders.

(b) Mplayer2: still just a beta release right now, but does support chaptered MKV video files and also uses hardware decoding.

(c) Quicktime: doesn't support many video codecs or containers (although plugins exist to remedy this somewhat), but still does the best job of displaying what video formats it supports. And yes, uses hardware decoding.

(d) VLC: The last resort. A ways behind the times compared to other players (although a major update is supposedly in the works), the software-based decoding system means that it places a much larger load on your CPU, but it also means that the thing is infinitely tweakable. Video that is corrupted or just won't run any other way can often be made to work in VLC if you play with the settings just right...

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snowparang | # 108 | 2011-12-07, 03:14 | Report

Originally Posted by Copernicus View Post

This is, in fact, exactly what the hardware on other phones is doing: no matter how powerful their video hardware is, they've still gotta crunch the resolution down into the native screen size of the phone, and normally will end up dropping some details anyway because there's just too much data in a HD video for even high-end silicon to deal with in real time. You have to compromise (in many ways) to watch video on such tiny devices.

The advantage in re-encoding videos to match the native screen size of your phone is that you can actually increase the quality of the reduced-sized picture (as the software is not forced to do its resizing work in real-time), and because there are literally less bits being stored, you can support a higher bitrate (i.e., less compression) than you could with an HD resolution video.

Yes, I do understand this point. And it seems I have no other choice...

My assumption before getting N9: simply copy and paste all my videos/phots, sync my contact/note/calenders (from N8) and I'm good to go!

Reality after getting N9: er...I can only sync contacts and notes. And now I have to re-encode few gb of videos so that it can play on my new phone.

Actually I'm okay if the N9 is able to lower (hardware? software?) the quality/resolution/bitrate/whatever such that video playback will be smooth but albeit not at the native 854x480 resolution or at an acceptable quality. Maybe later an app/video player is able to do that.

BigBadGuber! | # 109 | 2011-12-07, 03:27 | Report

ust get an iphone. It works

Copernicus | # 110 | 2011-12-07, 03:37 | Report

Originally Posted by snowparang View Post

Actually I'm okay if the N9 is able to lower (hardware? software?) the quality/resolution/bitrate/whatever such that video playback will be smooth but albeit not at the native 854x480 resolution or at an acceptable quality. Maybe later an app/video player is able to do that.

Unfortunately, such an app/video player is unlikely to appear. The truth is, the N8 just has more powerful video encoding/decoding hardware than the N9 does.

I do believe that the N9 is a great phone, but it is not anywhere near top-of-the-line as a media server. If this is what you need, you can find home-theater-quality "phones" from companies like Apple, Motorola, Samsung, HTC, and LG; Nokia just isn't competing in this arena right now...