Easy Debian Fremantle Beta Testing - Page 253 - maemo.org

sulu | # 2521 | 2012-01-23, 22:33 | Report

Originally Posted by Estel View Post

@Sulu
Because You're kinda specialist here

Any highlights, about what should be done before image can be considered "uploadable" for wide audience? I thought for setting locales to EN, instead of my PL. Any other remarks?

Not really. You're right, I should have set my locales to EN as well. But I just didn't think that it might actually be of public interest. I thought qole would use it as a template for a completely new image.

The only thing you should make sure is that it contains no compromising data like your personal VPN login data or something similar.

Another good idea to minimize the size of the compressed image would be to nullify all the empty space in the image. It just did it by creating a file from /dev/zero inside of the image and deleting it. But there's also the Debian package zerofree which should do that even more comfortably.

The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to sulu For This Useful Post:
Estel, qole

Estel | # 2522 | 2012-01-23, 23:38 | Report

Thanks! What about the:

Originally Posted by Estel View Post

// Edit

sulu, excuse my noobiness, but where to put files from attachment to:
http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/...ebian_Packages
...(lxpanel.tar)? Of course, orientation script goes to /.debian/usr/bin/ (I correctly assumed, that it should be executed from within ED, *not* Maemo itself, right?), but for other files, I have no clue.
---

Also, as ED is far from "testing" now, we have fully working Squeeze release, and this thread grew up to epic size, what do You think about creating proper announcement, after releasing image with all sulu's work + chromium instead of Iceweasel (faster on N900, less RAM-hungry - to the point, that I use it comfortably as "everyday" browser on my device), and LibreOffice instead of OpenOffice?

All this Squeeze thing seems to be big milestone for ED. qole is less active now in Maemo area (no accusing, no demanding, no rant, no offense, no bad words, etc

), and proper announcement by active member (sulu, most likely, or, in worst case, me) would give control over first page (updates), + probably bring fresh, well-deserved attention to Easy Debian. At least, IMHO.

(probably, You've started to write, before I edited)

/Estel

ivgalvez | # 2523 | 2012-01-24, 07:47 | Report

Originally Posted by Estel View Post

Also, as ED is far from "testing" now, we have fully working Squeeze release, and this thread grew up to epic size, what do You think about creating proper announcement, after releasing image with all sulu's work + chromium instead of Iceweasel (faster on N900, less RAM-hungry - to the point, that I use it comfortably as "everyday" browser on my device), and LibreOffice instead of OpenOffice?

All this Squeeze thing seems to be big milestone for ED. qole is less active now in Maemo area (no accusing, no demanding, no rant, no offense, no bad words, etc

), and proper announcement by active member (sulu, most likely, or, in worst case, me) would give control over first page (updates), + probably bring fresh, well-deserved attention to Easy Debian. At least, IMHO.

Absolutely agree with you.

The Following User Says Thank You to ivgalvez For This Useful Post:
Estel

tanpoaran | # 2524 | 2012-01-24, 07:55 | Report

@sulu
i was failed install libre office and i'v got this:

root@m5sulu: /]dpkg --configure -a
dpkg: failed to open package info file `/var/lib/dpkg/updates/0017' for reading: Stale NFS file handle

please tell me how to solve this problem..
thank you

sulu | # 2525 | 2012-01-24, 09:46 | Report

Originally Posted by Estel View Post

sulu, excuse my noobiness, but where to put files from attachment to:
http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/...ebian_Packages
...(lxpanel.tar)? Of course, orientation script goes to /.debian/usr/bin/ (I correctly assumed, that it should be executed from within ED, *not* Maemo itself, right?), but for other files, I have no clue.

Yes, the orientation script goes to /usr/bin/ and is executed from within ED.
The LDXE, HLXDE and XLXDE directories are lxpanel configurations and go to: /home/user/.config/lxpanel/

If you have a look at the orientation script you'll see that every time the orientation of the desktop is changed another panel profile gets loaded since I found it useful to always have the panel on the short side of the screen. Just like my entire image I considered these profiles to be an example of how the lxpanel might be influenced by the orientation. So if you copy these profiles to your image you'll have my panel layout as well and I'm not sure if that's what you want because it differs quite a lot from the Easy Debian default panel.
The LXDE profile is my panel for the landscape desktop. HLXDE (H from horizontal) is basically the same panel for the portrait desktop, and XLXDE is the HLXDE profile plus an xvkbd keyboard plus a "dummy panel" (width=1px) to prevent other windows from covering xvkbd (or being covered by it).
Unfortunately each of those profiles has to be edited separately, so if you want to add another icon to your panel you have to do it in all three profiles if you want them do be consistent. And the positioning of the xvkbd window depends on your panel layout.
So I suggest to not simply copy my profiles but adjust them to a default panel layout.
Edit: And then there is this orientation.desktop file which creates a (more or less) nice icon (I'm sure one can find a better one, I was to lazy to search) and goes to: /usr/share/applications/

Originally Posted by Estel View Post

Also, as ED is far from "testing" now, we have fully working Squeeze release, and this thread grew up to epic size, what do You think about creating proper announcement, after releasing image with all sulu's work + chromium instead of Iceweasel (faster on N900, less RAM-hungry - to the point, that I use it comfortably as "everyday" browser on my device), and LibreOffice instead of OpenOffice?

I think it's a good idea.
I haven't tested (nor checked for backdoors) them yet but I think these two additions for chromium respectively iceweasel might be useful:
http://www.chromeextensions.org/appe...g/chrometouch/
https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/fir...grab-and-drag/

Originally Posted by Estel View Post

All this Squeeze thing seems to be big milestone for ED. qole is less active now in Maemo area (no accusing, no demanding, no rant, no offense, no bad words, etc

), and proper announcement by active member (sulu, most likely, or, in worst case, me) would give control over first page (updates), + probably bring fresh, well-deserved attention to Easy Debian. At least, IMHO.

I appreciate your trust in me but frankly I can't guarantee that I'd be constantly available as a developer or even host of Easy Debian. Everything I've contributed so far is just what I've done for myself. So I'll be happy to continue giving further support but I don't really want to be in charge of a project.

Originally Posted by tanpoaran View Post

@sulu
i was failed install libre office and i'v got this:

root@m5sulu: /]dpkg --configure -a
dpkg: failed to open package info file `/var/lib/dpkg/updates/0017' for reading: Stale NFS file handle

please tell me how to solve this problem..
thank you

I'm sorry, in my experience this is a very nasty error which I've not been able to fix yet. Whenever this occured to me I just restored my (hopefully up to date) backup image and started over again.
Usually this error only happens when the watchdog reboots the N900 during a software installation because it thinks it's frozen due to a runaway process. To prevent this always start processes which are going to occupy the CPU for a long time with nice, e.g.:

Code:

nice -n 19 sudo apt-get install libreoffice

This way the watchdog will always get the CPU priority when it thinks it's time to check if everything is still alright.

Edit:
just a thought:
With Debian introducing the new armhf (hf= hard float) architecture and the N900's Cortex A8 supporting this architecture might it be possible to re-base Easy Debian on it? I've read about performance increases of up to 40% in special situations (although mostly it won't even be noticeable). If it works this won't happen anytime soon (maybe in a year or two), but I'd like to have some thoughts of people who are more familiar with this topic than I am.

Last edited by sulu; 2012-01-24 at 10:01.

The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to sulu For This Useful Post:
Estel, reinob

reinob | # 2526 | 2012-01-24, 14:52 | Report

Originally Posted by sulu View Post

just a thought:
With Debian introducing the new armhf (hf= hard float) architecture and the N900's Cortex A8 supporting this architecture might it be possible to re-base Easy Debian on it? I've read about performance increases of up to 40% in special situations (although mostly it won't even be noticeable). If it works this won't happen anytime soon (maybe in a year or two), but I'd like to have some thoughts of people who are more familiar with this topic than I am.

Not sure about this, but if you compile the whole system (easy debian in this case) with HF you might also need an adapted kernel (unless the interface between libc and kernel is independent of the architecture/ABI, which is probably not the case).

Some day we'll be able to boot an HF-compiled debian with an upstream kernel, but it'll take some time until that happens..

sulu | # 2527 | 2012-01-24, 16:14 | Report

Originally Posted by reinob View Post

Not sure about this, but if you compile the whole system (easy debian in this case) with HF you might also need an adapted kernel (unless the interface between libc and kernel is independent of the architecture/ABI, which is probably not the case).

Since I believe* the existing Maemo kernel makes best use of the hardware, it should already be armhf compatible. No idea if that's actually necessary or if an armhf-compatible libc would suffice, but if it is necessary that shouldn't be a problem.

Originally Posted by reinob View Post

Some day we'll be able to boot an HF-compiled debian with an upstream kernel, but it'll take some time until that happens..

Well I think recompiling the whole Easy Debian software doesn't make much sense. If that's what you want to do I think Arch or Gentoo would be better distributions. Plus, recompiling every binary with armhf support would practically mean to create a new architecture on our own. I have thought about that earlier but I didn't find it practical then and I don't think so now.
That's where the Debian's official armhf port comes in handy now. Theoretically we could start building armhf images right away. The reason why I think there will be a delay of over a year is that it doesn't make much sense to base Easy Debian on Testing or even Unstable since it's supposed to be useable for everybody, not just for Debian experts (heck, I don't even consider myself to be one). Therefore I think the Wheezy freeze is the first date that might make an armhf Easy Debian useful.

*) read: I have absolutely no clue but it would be wise

The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to sulu For This Useful Post:
Estel, reinob

zlatokosi | # 2528 | 2012-01-24, 17:25 | Report

Originally Posted by Estel View Post

Also, as ED is far from "testing" now, we have fully working Squeeze release, and this thread grew up to epic size, what do You think about creating proper announcement, after releasing image with all sulu's work + chromium instead of Iceweasel (faster on N900, less RAM-hungry - to the point, that I use it comfortably as "everyday" browser on my device), and LibreOffice instead of OpenOffice?

All this Squeeze thing seems to be big milestone for ED. qole is less active now in Maemo area (no accusing, no demanding, no rant, no offense, no bad words, etc

), and proper announcement by active member (sulu, most likely, or, in worst case, me) would give control over first page (updates), + probably bring fresh, well-deserved attention to Easy Debian. At least, IMHO.

I second this!

The Following User Says Thank You to zlatokosi For This Useful Post:
Estel

Estel | # 2529 | 2012-01-25, 02:53 | Report

Thanks a lot Sulu, some nice suggestions here.

Originally Posted by sulu View Post

I haven't tested (nor checked for backdoors) them yet but I think these two additions for chromium respectively iceweasel might be useful:
http://www.chromeextensions.org/appe...g/chrometouch/
https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/fir...grab-and-drag/

As for chromium extensions - I've already incorporated "Scrollbars anywhere", which is (AFAIK) most customizable "touch scroll" thing for Chromium. Using it, I was able to enable "drop and drag" (also on text/images), while still retaining capability to select text/drop page elements/whatever. I'm pretty sure everyone will find fancy customization mix for own liking. I also checked it for backdoors, at least as much as my limited skills permit

Originally Posted by sulu View Post

Unfortunately each of those profiles has to be edited separately, so if you want to add another icon to your panel you have to do it in all three profiles if you want them do be consistent

Of course, such editing can be done from (ED) desktop itself, not only by editing config files by hand? I'm going to check it myself, of course, but I think that writing answer here may be useful for further readers.
---

armhf seems to be great idea, yet I agree, that we should wait a little for at least some* maturity from HF versions. Of course, if someone want to volunteer, and prepare such images ASAP, I'll be glad to test them, nevertheless.

*not that I have a clue about kernel support for it, or whatever

/Estel

Last edited by Estel; 2012-01-25 at 02:55.

reinob | # 2530 | 2012-01-25, 08:16 | Report

Originally Posted by sulu View Post

Since I believe* the existing Maemo kernel makes best use of the hardware, it should already be armhf compatible. No idea if that's actually necessary or if an armhf-compatible libc would suffice, but if it is necessary that shouldn't be a problem.

I don't think our kernel was compiled with hardfp, as obviously this would have implied that the whole of Maemo would have also been compiled like that.

If we somehow were to replace all packages (incl. glibc) with recompiled versions using hard-float then the kernel would have to be made aware of that (unless the kernel uses a specific, EABI-independent, calling convention for system calls, which I don't think is the case).

Originally Posted by

Well I think recompiling the whole Easy Debian software doesn't make much sense. If that's what you want to do I think Arch or Gentoo would be better distributions. Plus, recompiling every binary with armhf support would practically mean to create a new architecture on our own. I have thought about that earlier but I didn't find it practical then and I don't think so now.

Well, despite posting in this thread, I did not talk about Easy Debian itself, but debian in general. Heck, I don't even use Easy Debian, but run something similar (used debootstrap for that).

Originally Posted by

That's where the Debian's official armhf port comes in handy now. Theoretically we could start building armhf images right away. The reason why I think there will be a delay of over a year is that it doesn't make much sense to base Easy Debian on Testing or even Unstable since it's supposed to be useable for everybody, not just for Debian experts (heck, I don't even consider myself to be one). Therefore I think the Wheezy freeze is the first date that might make an armhf Easy Debian useful.

At least my plan is/was to use debootstrap to install the armhf debian port, but then if my guess about the kernel is right, it would not work under chroot, but would need its own kernel (should be no problem thanks to u-boot). But then you can forget about all the maemo things that work while in a chroot, such as making phone calls