Tux-Sef | # 1 | 2012-03-06, 10:41 | Report

Hello,

I was wondering if the N9 ever will support NFC payments. It seems it will come down to the following:

NFC needs a protocol to do a secure transaction. This is called Secure Wireless Protocol, SWP.

Both the C7 and the N9 are launched, and Nokia said they will never support NFC payments. I don't know the chipsets in the N9 and the C7, so I can't tell the differences. Anyway, I don't know if SWP is a hardware or a software protocol.

On some places I readed Meego Harmatten does support SWP. And if it doesn't, someone in the community will create it.

But now this. Nokia said some time ago the C7 will support NFC payments, starting from April this year. And remember, in the start of both phones they said they would never support it.

So why am I so optimistic about NFC payments? Well, not only because it is easy. The N9 is a expensive phone, and should be made somewhat futureproof. Lots of experts say NFC will be a big payment method in 2013/2014. And if I spent like $600 on a new phone that has NFC, but doesn't support the thing it is actually meant for, that will be very disappointing.

Can someone clear this one up?

jalyst | # 2 | 2012-03-07, 10:03 | Report

It needs a secure-element which supports SWP. The NFC chip it uses doesn't have that...
However there may be a way to add a secure-element by using a sticker or SIM w/that embedded. (they do exist or are planned apparently)
No idea if it's technically feasible to add support this way, but those two routes are our last hope AFAIK.
Maybe it's possible to add support via use of a USB dongle eventually too (once/if we have host-mode).

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Last edited by jalyst; 2012-03-07 at 10:07.

Tux-Sef | # 3 | 2012-03-07, 11:42 | Report

I still believe it is possible.

The C7 couldn't in the start, now it can. I want to know wich NFC-Chip is integrated in the N9. Does somebody know that?

If the chip in the N9 does support SWP, what is unsure now, we know it can be added later. Some intuition says the N9 uses the same NFC chip as the C7... That should open a world of possibilities.

Edit: I read at many places thee N9 uses the NXP PN544 Controller Chip. Well, this are the official specs. It reads, yes, NFC Payments. Could someone work out this somewhat better?

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Last edited by Tux-Sef; 2012-03-07 at 12:36.

coderus | # 4 | 2012-03-07, 12:57 | Report

nfc payment shold be granted by visa/master card. its not software related

jalyst | # 5 | 2012-03-07, 16:43 | Report

That's true if is not industry sanctioned then it's never going to happen.
But those stickers & sims are part of ISIS's (& others) plans "apparently".

jalyst | # 6 | 2012-03-07, 18:05 | Report

That story says nothing about retrospectively adding a secure-element to the C7?
It may still be possible to add one via the various means I mentioned, no idea if it's feasible (technically) though.

I can't find the discussion now, but it was confirmed that the chip used by the N9 doesn't have the necessary secure-element.
But if you can identify the exact NFC chipset used, & can can confirm it does indeed support secure-element/SWP.
Well... I'll have your baby....

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Last edited by jalyst; 2012-03-07 at 18:13.

balisingh | # 7 | 2012-03-09, 02:52 | Report

i have the data sheet, i thought for the chip. Ill post it later.

jalyst | # 8 | 2012-03-09, 09:27 | Report

Cool, please do share.

kevloral | # 9 | 2012-03-09, 11:34 | Report

Actually, SWP stands for Single Wire Protocol.

The SWP is the protocol you need to communicate the NFC controller chip with whatever secure elements may be available.

Therefore, if you have a NFC controller that supports SWP (like the NXP PN544 the C7 and the N9 have), the device has the needed additional hardware support for it (something I don't know if the C7 or the N9 really have), and there is the needed software support for that in the firmware, you could use a secure element within the UICC.

So the lack of an eSE in the device doesn't pose any problem... as long as the SWP support is in place.

Best regards.

freemangordon | # 10 | 2012-03-09, 11:54 | Report

That is correct, but also you will need additional pin on sim card connected to nfc chip (sim card as SE is the only option left). And driver support for that.