ivgalvez | # 61 | 2012-06-30, 17:13 | Report

msiak: Thank you very much for your offering. I'm sure you'll have the opportunity to help a LOT in the months coming.
I hope to finish round of contact with developers next week an I'll publish a list of orphaned applications looking for new parents.

misiak | # 62 | 2012-06-30, 21:26 | Report

I don't really feel like this answers my questions, but thanks for pointing that out However, let's hope there are more experienced... administrators... out there who will be able to maintain a whole repository (and other sections). I'm more of a developer than administrator, but if there are no other volunteers (but I doubt there won't be any), I can administer too.

Thank you very much, I can't wait. The wiki page in form similar to http://wiki.maemo.org/Fremantle_closed_packages (with columns like: package name, category, really short description, programming languages and other technical stuff used, former maintainer, last package activity date, etc.) would be superb, but if we get just a list I can create a Wiki page and start filling the rest of info myself (and, let's hope, there will be others who will help with this, too)

misterc | # 63 | 2012-06-30, 21:58 | Report

as this person is not going to post anything "council or community" related anymore.... => Ignore list

Estel | # 64 | 2012-07-01, 05:51 | Report

Answer is very simple - referendum is tool, which can be used to determine support in Community, for certain ideas. Because Council isn't freakin' government, and can't do or force anything, without, without other volunteers willing to participate.

Now, Your initial answer was suggesting, that there is some established way of abusing referendum for removing volunteers from volunteering, by first creating trolls heaven thread, and gaining support in it.Of course, it's not true, as it was only Your makeshift invention (and Your fail to provide sources of this "knowledge" speaks for itself).

Let alone fact, that You're giving heroine to addicts, it's just ridiculous idea, in itself. We can as good make referendum to stop fremangordon from volunteering to KP development. Sure, we have referendum system lying around, lets use it for something! I opt for stopping rapes in Darfur first, then we can make Nokia into producing Mer device.
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To make long story short - no, people that are interested in dividing Community, must wait for new election, and put their names in hat. Of course, they can always fork community before, provide infrastructure, etc - Council isn't government, and won't *knock knock* to their doors with army, to ensure unity.

Yet, I'm absolutely sure, that no forking will happen - as it would require some *real* work, which trolls are not used nor interested to do.
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Now, can we focus on real things? It seem, that in parallel, a discussion about existing (not imagined) procedure is going... Anyway, no matter what, You won't see more replies on this from me, as every second spend on it is wasted one.

/Estel

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Last edited by Estel; 2012-07-01 at 06:00.

joerg_rw | # 65 | 2012-07-01, 13:12 | Report

Read again your own post! To me it's clearly inconsistent and self-contradicting, regarding what council is supposed to do and has power / entitlement to decide to act or not (re-)act upon.
Your classification of a not even yet existing thread as "troll heaven" is not in line with what you're supposed to do as council.


[on a sidenote: while your definition of purpose of referendum is not completely off the point*), it clearly puts too much emphasis on poll aspect while completely ignoring where from those ideas should come that you correctly state should be topic of any such referendum.
It's NOT like these are the ideas of council that are to be decided upon in referendum (unless a council member submits an idea in his role as community member) - rather it's exactly those threads you denigrated as "troll heaven" (and I provided an all but trolling suggestion on topic of such a thread in http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p...7&postcount=46 "[edit1] usually you publish a decent letter of intent...") that are meant to provide input to council about which ideas to start a referendum about.
*): Actually I just noticed your definition is rather off the point in fact: a referendum is NOT a tool for council "to determine support in Community" (what you're referring to is actually a poll), it's clearly a way do get ultimately binding decisions of community about how council SHALL act on a particular issue. No matter what that particular issue might be. Now I see why you think decision about holding a referendum was in discretion of council. NO it's NOT. Council can reject a referendum the community asks for, if there are logical points in clearly defined rules that wouldn't allow to have a valid referendum. If there are no such points, the council is bound to organize a referendum for community, given there's a reasonable support for the request to have said referendum. The council _may_ start referendum on its own initiative if it feels like there's a question the community has to decide upon, but referendum usecases are not limited to that situation.
And please don't ask me again to point you to wikipages or *.gov so you could read about meaning and correct procedure of a referendum. Join #politics on IRC if you have any questions regarding that]

[edit] an additional note since your own words were "it seems easy to lure users into strange activity by posting any trolling" (owtte):
>>Now, Your initial answer was suggesting, that there is some established way of abusing referendum
incorrect
>>...for removing volunteers from volunteering
incorrect and completely made up / invented by you
>>Of course, it's not true
complete nonsense - of course it's not true since YOU invented all that
>>as it was only Your makeshift invention
No Sir, it's been YOUR invention
>>(and Your fail to provide sources of this "knowledge" speaks for itself).
Hard to even comment on that BS without using **** wording.
a) "Which process doesn't exist allegedly? The process of collecting support on a signing list for a request addressed to a organizational entity? You are free to find this process described in any page you find when googling for "Volksbegehren"." (here you are with your "source")
b) Fact is YOU seem to ignore my requests in http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p...3&postcount=60, and obviously you are incapable of understanding the meaning of my words in
"I don't think there's any such thing like "general referendum system", and if there were I'd bet it would apply to this particular case as well.
However it's not been me who invented the general idea of a referendum, including collecting votes to trigger an official referendum. It's pretty established in a lot of constitutions, just deciding about the proper threshold is up to your sole discretion as council in duty here, since I actually think there's no hard threshold written down for maemo anywhere (yet?)."
YOU are failing to provide any source of that "general referendum system" concept you love to quote so much.
You're also refusing to get the semantic of "e.g." (Example Given) that's used to indicate a suggestion here. According to common sense a suggestion is quite diametrically opposite to a quote of a written fact, so to any monkey trained to read it should be clear that the words "e.g. the count of valid votes in last election" is not a quote of any written down rule.

MEH, I fail to feel like continuing commenting on every incorrect word in your posts, since there are few that aren't.
Just for the occasional reader: the rest of this Estel's post as well as others are similarly made of 99% mere BS, written simply to insult, badmouth, and denigrate others.

Nuff said
/j

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Last edited by joerg_rw; 2012-07-01 at 18:51.

Estel | # 66 | 2012-07-01, 13:12 | Report

Absolutely agree, and I'm very glad that we've cleared this missunderstanding. I especially like comparision to request for shotting someone - it's exactly what I was trying to mention, as example of referendum that could gain many supporters, but would still not accepted by "authority".

Of course, in our case, Council is such authority. I'm absolutely sure, that in case pf real need of another election, coming fromCommunity, Councilors wouldn't object to put it under referendum - but, it would require strong mandate, to be even considered.

In any case, it's all theoretical discussion, cause a) our fellow trolls aren't very popular either b) we have much more important things to do, and I'm sure, that Community would kick in a** anyone wanting to divide, instead of uniting.

/Estel

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Last edited by Estel; 2012-07-01 at 13:14.

misterc | # 67 | 2012-07-01, 13:26 | Report

Joerg,

i know we didn't start off on a very good foot, a few weeks ago
(wasn't it because of a certain candidate to the Council, btw...(?))
nonetheless, basic poster advice, i'm sure you are aware of too... don't feed the troll
as much as it hurts to have to consider a Council's member as a troll...
to his defense, he doesn't do it with the usual purpose of the troll to start a flame war, but his posts are so ignominious that it amounts to the same, alas

well, as i posted elsewhere, let's consider any post made by another member of the Council then the Council Chair (Rob / SD69 now, after Council themselves decided to kick Estel out of this position...) as a personal post :|

Dave999 | # 68 | 2012-07-01, 13:32 | Report

All posts are personal. If the community council will talk with that voice. Use the council account.

SD69 | # 69 | 2012-07-03, 13:12 | Report

Thanks for volunteering to help if needed. We are going to have a large need for trusted community members to administer the repos moving forward. Anyone who can help, please do so.

lma | # 70 | 2012-07-03, 20:03 | Report

How ?