Migrating to Community-driven Infrastructure - Step 1: Inventory - Page 9 - maemo.org

misterc | # 81 | 2012-06-29, 23:58 | Report

Originally Posted by woody14619 View Post

Which is all fine and dandy for an experienced user. Not so easy to setup for someone with limited skills that may not even have another system to start up with. And no, you can't just use your N900, because to do that you need to install apps to do BitTor and the like, which means you need a repo to get those from to start with. (Chicken/egg situation.)

Those of us with a technical background don't need repos at all, they're just a nice convenience. I've run Linux since pre 1.0 days, and am not unfamiliar with life before package managers.

But this project isn't for 4 or 5 people hacking things in their dorm rooms, it's for a community. For a community, we will need repos. Whether those are hosted by Nokia, or us, or Debian.org, or some other entity is what's being asked; the question is where or how, not if.

hear you, loud and clear
just, i don't believe that will be possible
call me pessimist if you like (i'm definitely the positive, solver kind of guy (there are no problems, only solutions... one of which has to be chosen...)) but

remember CA?
do you think that community will be able to pull together, define a common strategy, organize the financing and get it all running?
i'm not talking technical, accounting or legal issues here, simply...

let's put it this way: NOKIA holds us together, like it or not.
remove that and...

let's hope for the best (that Community will be able to set up an alternative to Maemo) but let's plan for the worst...

maybe Community should invest a little time and effort distributing the "fundamentals" without repository?
using backup / restore package, with a local rep?

again... worst case scenario :|

SD69 | # 82 | 2012-06-30, 15:00 | Report

Originally Posted by woody14619 View Post

Which is all fine and dandy for an experienced user. Not so easy to setup for someone with limited skills that may not even have another system to start up with. And no, you can't just use your N900, because to do that you need to install apps to do BitTor and the like, which means you need a repo to get those from to start with. (Chicken/egg situation.)

Those of us with a technical background don't need repos at all, they're just a nice convenience. I've run Linux since pre 1.0 days, and am not unfamiliar with life before package managers.

But this project isn't for 4 or 5 people hacking things in their dorm rooms, it's for a community. For a community, we will need repos. Whether those are hosted by Nokia, or us, or Debian.org, or some other entity is what's being asked; the question is where or how, not if.

I agree, I think we need to keep repos in order to have a community.

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misterc | # 83 | 2012-06-30, 22:45 | Report

Originally Posted by SD69 View Post

I agree, I think we need to keep repos in order to have a community.

can we afford it?

freemangordon | # 84 | 2012-06-30, 23:04 | Report

Originally Posted by misterc View Post

can we afford it?

Right now merlin1991 hosts 2 repos(CSSU-devel and CSSU-thumb) on his server, which is not dedicated for that AFAIK.

IF the community is so poor that a repo server cannot be payed, I will by a second-hand one and will put it right to my desktop machine.

How much will it cost 300,400 euros?

yes, it won't be on the level of reliability of Nokia (Neimen) servers, but still apt-mirror could be used by 2-3 more guys, so if a bus hits me tomorrow, a simple DNS change will fix the things.

Just an example solution, I think a better ones exist.

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vi_ | # 85 | 2012-06-30, 23:10 | Report

I have **** loads of web space. Lets do this thing.

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lma | # 86 | 2012-06-30, 23:16 | Report

Originally Posted by freemangordon View Post

Right now merlin1991 hosts 2 repos(CSSU-devel and CSSU-thumb) on his server, which is not dedicated for that AFAIK.

One crucial difference is that these are not pre-configured out of the box and hit daily by every active N900 out there. Until we know how much traffic extras serves we can only speculate :-(

On the other hand, 2.0 .. 4.1 extras should be doable on any non-zero budget.

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qwazix | # 87 | 2012-06-30, 23:55 | Report

I wouldn't mind setting up a repo server @home too. We could set up a small vps to do some distributing and find volunteers to host mirrors on their home computers. It'll be nice to show that off too.

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freemangordon | # 88 | 2012-07-01, 00:06 | Report

Originally Posted by lma View Post

One crucial difference is that these are not pre-configured out of the box and hit daily by every active N900 out there. Until we know how much traffic extras serves we can only speculate :-(

Agree, I was just giving an example, I am well aware of the differences between a homemade server and a production one. But we could solve the traffic issue (if any) by distributing that between several repos, i.e. repo A holds packages a-k , repo B holds lib stuff and repo C - remaining. Will be a nightmare to manage though.

Speaking of that I will try next week to contact a person I know from my high-school, he (along with two other guys) owns a data center, might be of help.

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Hurrian | # 89 | 2012-07-01, 00:14 | Report

Originally Posted by qwazix View Post

I wouldn't mind setting up a repo server @home too. We could set up a small vps to do some distributing and find volunteers to host mirrors on their home computers. It'll be nice to show that off too.

Indeed, one mirror per country/area should be good enough if we can't scrape together funds to buy a big, fat-piped server.

Originally Posted by freemangordon View Post

Agree, I was just giving an example, I am well aware of the differences between a homemade server and a production one. But we could solve the traffic issue (if any) by distributing that between several repos, i.e. repo A holds packages a-k , repo B holds lib stuff and repo C - remaining. Will be a nightmare to manage though.

Not really, this is actually possible.
If we can get all servers to rsync certain packages from a location, we can simply forward requests.
For example, popular packages get put on a high-bandwidth server, and less popular ones get put on home boxes.

Last edited by Hurrian; 2012-07-01 at 00:23.

ivgalvez | # 90 | 2012-07-01, 17:03 | Report

We'll need numbers before taking any of these approaches. I'm pretty sure, that home made servers would be enough for Diablo and previous versions of Maemo, but I'm not so sure for Fremantle.

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