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    Jolla phones: not so open

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    specc | # 31 | 2012-07-19, 08:01 | Report

    Originally Posted by sulu View Post
    1st:
    Android isn't successful because it's open but because it's "end-user friendly" (whatever that means - most people can use it intuitively).
    My father is a good example for this. He has a Galaxy S2 and has what is usually called "advanced computer skills": He can maintain his Windows PC, is clever enough to avoid the common PEBKAC problems and in theory knows how to code. But he hasn't coded himself for more than 20 years now, so he couldn't care less about his phone's operating system being open source.

    2nd:
    Google frequently fails to deliver the source code as required by #2 of the open source definition [1] and has to be reminded very often to release it.
    Also, even though it's not strictly a failure in terms of the OSD #2 & #3 since these paragraphs only refer to the license Google's Android is (or at least has been in the past when I checked) technically designed to make derived works hard without ripping the whole system apart and putting it back together from scratch. For example in Android 2.2 it was not possible even on a rooted phone to load additional kernel modules simply because the /system partition where these modules HAD to be stored had virtually no free space left. Resizing the partition was not possible due to automated integrity checks that complained about wrong partition sizes.

    bottom line:
    Yes, strictly spoken Android is open source by the terms of the OSD once they released the source code. But if you don't go by the definition but by the spirit of open source Android is not open. Google only makes it as open as is required by the licenses they are obliged to respect. Unfortunately this kind of openness is worthless.

    [1] http://opensource.org/docs/osd
    So by "your" definition OSD is worthless because it is not in accordance to the "spirit" of open source. Please....

    Why is a thing popular? Android is popular because it is available and most brands have chosen to use Android as their main OS. That's the real reason.

    Keyword is availability. Android is popular because it soars as the most available OS ever to have seen the light of day. More available in every sense of the word than Maemo ever was, not to speak of Harmattan.

    That is another nail in the coffin for Jolla. They have no perception for the idea of availability (in a broad sense). Trust me!

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    jklubi | # 32 | 2012-07-19, 08:05 | Report

    Jolla was very very clear that they would be releasing a consumer product,
    ie one that is locked down.

    Then they would also release an enthusiastic device, which would cater for the open source community.

    The OSS device is not locked down, but rather, open

    There are trying to cater for the mass market and then also cater for the hardcore OSS users.

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    Half-Life_4_Life | # 33 | 2012-07-19, 09:21 | Report

    I don't care if it is hackable or whatever.If they succeed they will show what Nokia could've done with MeeGo.It just shows that MeeGo isn't all dead.And they might add support for custom ROM's if they really succeed (I think i wrote that correctly )

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    jalyst | # 34 | 2012-07-19, 10:19 | Report

    Originally Posted by GameboyRMH View Post
    Well here's the bad news we've all been dreading about the Jolla phones:

    http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/articles/36...ngry-birds.htm



    I think you need to learn to read between the lines here....
    Read his comment again, there will be hackability there for those that want it & (ideally) know what they're doing.
    It just won't be there OOTB, as it shouldn't be when you're targeting mass-market/mainstream.
    I'd be surprised if they had a security framework as convoluted as AEGIS (or one at all), but that remains to be seen.

    Oh and here is the original Jolla general discussion thread:
    http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=85315
    Let keep it there please, better to have everyone's thoughts/findings focused in the one place.

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    Last edited by jalyst; 2012-07-19 at 10:22.

     
    pelago | # 35 | 2012-07-19, 10:25 | Report

    Originally Posted by wook_sf View Post
    " We did not expect that people will misinterpret this statement. As for the open part: Just follow what we are doing with Mer and Nemo -- our development there is completely in the open, and try to figure out how we would benefit from working on community projects now, only to later annoy them with a locked phone " posted by employee of jolla....
    Source please?

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    specc | # 36 | 2012-07-19, 10:39 | Report

    Originally Posted by jalyst View Post
    I think you need to learn to read between the lines here....
    Read his comment again, there will be hackability there for those that want it & (ideally) know what they're doing.
    It just won't be there OOTB, as it shouldn't be when you're targeting mass-market/mainstream.
    I'd be surprised if they had a security framework as convoluted as AEGIS (or one at all), but that remains to be seen.
    I have to disagree. STOP reading between the lines. That's what's been going on with Maemo all the time. People pretending things are better than they actually are. Regarding Jolla, this is it. It won't become more open just because you want it to be more open, just because you have an urge to "read between the lines"

    I mean this is totally wacko. A company (Jolla) who can't communicate straight, and a community that can't listen straight, not even when Jolla is communicating straight. I would believe you have learned from 5-6 years with Nokia, but no.

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    sulu | # 37 | 2012-07-19, 10:40 | Report

    Originally Posted by specc View Post
    So by "your" definition OSD is worthless because it is not in accordance to the "spirit" of open source. Please....
    No. All I'm saying is that strictly going by the OSD may be a necessary condition for a product to be open source but it can't be a sufficient one.
    It's the same with all legal definitions. You may have high aims and you may even be able to write them down in a pretty precise way, but all that doesn't help if someone who is obliged to obey to the rules you wrote down doesn't really embrace your reason for formulating them in the first place. He'll always find a way around it so he can still point at your list of rules and say he obeys to all of them but at the same time he can use those tiny gaps that exist in every set of rules to do the exact opposite of what you as a person (not your sheet of rules) originally had in mind.
    In that (and only in that) case I say someone's claim to obey to your rules is worthless if he doesn't really share your motifs.

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    jalyst | # 38 | 2012-07-19, 10:44 | Report

    Originally Posted by specc View Post
    I have to disagree. STOP reading between the lines. That's what's been going on with Maemo all the time. People pretending things are better than they actually are. Regarding Jolla, this is it. It won't become more open just because you want it to be more open, just because you have an urge to "read between the lines"

    I mean this is totally wacko. A company (Jolla) who can't communicate straight, and a community that can't listen straight, not even when Jolla is communicating straight. I would believe you have learned from 5-6 years with Nokia, but no.
    Have you been READING the main thread & comments from people involved in the project AND closely associated entities?
    Apparently not......
    No "wackoness" here, but thanks for the compliment, just inferring from what we know, and what has been explained.

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    wook_sf | # 39 | 2012-07-19, 11:28 | Report

    Originally Posted by pelago View Post
    Source please?
    it's @ facebook, Jolla Pioneer Fans, one of replies on post by Zerstörer Romero
    i am not quite sure how to link posts from facebook though

    edit:
    i never said that Zerstörer Romero works for jolla, but that guy who works for jolla made comment on Zerstörer Romero's post in that group

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    Last edited by wook_sf; 2012-07-19 at 12:00.
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    Stskeeps | # 40 | 2012-07-19, 11:47 | Report

    Originally Posted by wook_sf View Post
    it's @ facebook, Jolla Pioneer Fans, one of replies on post by Zerstörer Romero
    i am not quite sure how to link posts from facebook though
    He's not a Jolla employee and that facebook group is not official.

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