shawnjefferson | # 11 | 2013-02-25, 06:42 | Report

While I've been following the migration on TMO and IRC, I have no inkling what the HF BoD concerns are, or what exactly they are working on... I think that the IPHH option is the best option at the moment to keep the community going, managed and run by the community, with the current funding sources (the community itself).

At the moment, it looks like we have:

- Some hardware that Nokia will donate to HF
- a company (IPHH) willing to offer one year free co-location services to HF/Community
- a volunteer system operator/administrator (warfare/falk) who is able, and willing to get the maemo infrastructure migrated to our hardware running at IPHH, and who actually lives quite close by the new colo facility.

Hildon Foundation Board of Directors, my hope is that you please work quickly and efficiently to get the appropriate safe-guards in place to ensure that hardware ownership is ensured, and also to get the maemo.org infrastructure back up and running quickly. The offer on the table seems the best way forward to a stable, affordale and community run maemo.org infrastructure. Please don't screw it up... you know, gift horses and beggers can't be choosers and all that.

SD69 | # 12 | 2013-02-25, 16:16 | Report

1) Someone present a contract for the Board to sign (I can't prepare it as I am traveling)

2) Someone explain to joerg that the way to move forward is something like 1) instead of criticizing people you work with

joerg_rw | # 13 | 2013-02-25, 16:38 | Report

ROB!!
NOBODY of IPHH will present a contract to sign to HiFo since IPHH has no requirements of you signing anything. WTF would you ensure them you will do, with your signature???
Isn't it like YOU want THEM to sign something, or in any other form assure you they will do or not do something? How - for God's grace - will a contract on a paper *you* sign help with that?

We offered you to send you a sever storage contract in which IPHH acknowledges they got a server from you to store at their location for a year, and you can claim it back any time you want. You still ignore that. WHY???
Sorry to criticize you, but criticism where criticism is due. Unless you explain to us mere mortals (in a way we actually can understand and act upon in a reasonable manner) what's the problem in your lawyer's world with all the actually existing alternatives we offered to you, we can't help. We simply can't guess what it is you need. We don't get it.

IPHH will NOT contact their lawyers and ask them to guess what HiFo's lawyer might need and how to write it. This might be the normal way in USA, here we do such things without paying our own lawyer prior to offering a donation. IPHH probably not even HAS an own lawyer. So pretty please excuse when their secretary says "we don't have a ready-made paper for this case, and I don't know how to write one that has a written headline `HOSTING CONTRACT` on it but actually fits the situation which is NOT hosting".

Rob, will you finally comment on that server storage contract proposal (in a useful manner)? And/or on the proposition that your possession of the server bill plus the receipt confirmation is sufficient to reclaim the hw? "Send me whatever you like, do your best guessing what I might need, i'll let you know if I'm happy" is an extremely inpolite and insulting way to approach a donor (and also to approach me, btw). We several times suggested possible options and asked you what you think of them. Each time you either ignored them or answered "send it to me, then I'll tell you what I think" WTF do you think we do all day? Preparing 5000 different versions of papers for you to pick from???
TELL US WHAT YOU NEED, AND DON'T SAY "HOSTING CONTRACT"!

/j

[edit] this sounds to me like: Mother: "Go and buy 3 liters of milk!" Boy comes back after several hours: "there been no 3-liter-milk packages"
[edit2] "not criticizing people you work with" - do you really think this is the right way? Where to start / stop criticizing? With your friends that you don't criticize and rather let them continue whatever criticizable thing they do? With your partner/spouse? With your kids? With yourself?

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Last edited by joerg_rw; 2013-02-25 at 17:43.

martinwozenilek | # 14 | 2013-02-25, 17:50 | Report

hard to believe what's going on!

rob, does this mean that you spend the money we donated to the foundation for lawyers???

woody14619 | # 15 | 2013-02-25, 18:59 | Report

I think just that was offered. So let's go that route.

IPHH has apparently offered to setup a storage contract, which contains legal agreements they would be comfortable giving. I suggest we have IPHH send a storage contract to Rob/Tim, along with the receipt and possession document, and see if that doesn't cover all concerns. If that involves a small cost or VAT, be sure to ask them to include that cost with the contract.

Good odds any cost involved will be well under what we would pay for any other solution. Not to mention quite under the cost for single additional month at out current provider if the delay pushes us past the 15th (assuming they even give us the option of that).

Considering the level and tone of conversation you took during Council/Board elections against other Council and Board nominees, I find irony in your statement.

Sometimes criticism is due.

We have a golden opportunity here. Squandering it by demanding legal specific contract terms, which are not required nor fully understood by the Board, from a group that's not familiar with US corporate law, is wasteful.

It's clear to me that there's a gap in terminology, which is probably part cultural, part language, part technical, and part legal. Not the least of which is the Boards misunderstanding of the difference between the terms hosting and collocation, and how those terms differ contractually, both in the US and in Germany.

Joerg, you're doing good work, and it's appreciated. I would ask you to request IPHH to prepare a storage contract, including costs if any, and get that to Rob & Tim. That should give everyone involved at least a starting point.

And please stress to them that this is not because of anything they're doing. Rather is it because US law holds HiFo legally responsible for ensuring the well being of the community, which in great part is reliant on these machines and services. This is why it's important to them to have a signed contract for storage and/or colo, even if that costs a small amount more due to VAT.

Rob, your concerns are valid, and I understand why we need a legal agreement. I think the concept of a storage contract in this instance is quite reasonable, and legally allows HiFo coverage when it comes to equipment liability and community sustainability. When you get the contract from IPHH, please review it and see if there is any additional items we need.

joerg_rw | # 16 | 2013-02-25, 19:17 | Report

No problem, after all I suggested it. Will ask them about it, maybe they already have such contract pre-printed. Otherwise it shouldn't be too hard to write up something. [edit] Oh, and many thanks Woody! :-)

/j

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Last edited by joerg_rw; 2013-02-25 at 19:54.

joerg_rw | # 17 | 2013-02-26, 19:19 | Report

Re: Server documents
From: joerg Reisenweber <joerg@openmoko.org>
To: Falk Stern <falk@xxxxxxx>
CC: "board@maemo.org" <board@maemo.org>, robert bauer <nybauer@xxxxxxx>, Maemo Community Council <council@maemo.org>, Woodward Craig <woody14619@xxxxxxx>
Date: 2013-02-26 20:16

Hi all

As promised for Tuesday, this is the letter about sent goods (server) from Nemein (aiui,
Finnish language), IPHHs confirmation for the delivery and handover, and the
DHL shipping letter.

This is NOT YET the server storage contract we plan to send to HiFo one of the
next days (need to prepare such contract since usually IPHH doesn't do this so
they have no ready-made paper for it)

BR
jOERG


On Tue 26 February 2013 16:57:17 Falk Stern wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> attached are the server documents.
>
> Best,
>
> Falk

--
() ascii ribbon campaign - against html e-mail
/\ www.asciiribbon.org - against proprietary attachments

joerg_rw | # 18 | 2013-03-15, 02:24 | Report

IPHH contract as drafted by Woody and me supposed to get signed by IPHH and sent to HiFo this week.

/j

reinob | # 19 | 2013-03-15, 08:11 | Report

I only hope we don't piss them off (too much). Really, they basically come to our rescue with an offer we can't resist (!) and "we" make it so complicated so as to even put the whole operation at risk.

A huge thanks to IPHH for their support!

fw190 | # 20 | 2013-03-15, 11:38 | Report

This is insane.

I strongly regret I have seen this topic just today. If it was earlier I would put more harsh words in my last post here: http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p...8&postcount=74

Damn I have to write this one more time. This is insane. I read all this and I can not believe it. I am also glad that the HiFo board will be changed. This is more like an Company the size of Microsoft or Hell GE even – a decision made in one small topic has to be discussed with so many people that when it is decided it is no longer needed. And we are talking about two man show. Short mail, sms, phone call and finito. Not some "Board has decide, Board has to think, Board this, Board that". Now this is the same !@#$ I encounter here in Poland in various offces etc. I can not belive it...

There are good people willing to help, there is a company willing to help, there are admins willing to spend their free time and what? “Board this, Board that” grrrrrrrrrrrr

This looks like Nokia not as a open source community. I have to grab a beer to calm myself.