Jedibeeftrix | # 1 | 2013-07-20, 09:42 | Report

Why Blackberry decided to launch their new BBOS10 platform with an old OpenGL ES 2.0 limited Qualcomm SoC, I do not know, but there is no reason to replicate that idiocy.

Sailfish can, I believe, use Android linux drivers from SoC vendors, important, as no-one is going to release a Sailfish specific linux driver for their SoC.

Well, it looks like the revolution has arrived:

http://www.trustedreviews.com/news/a...oogle-employee

Even if Jolla's software stack launches with OpenGL ES 2.0 drivers and function, do not destroy the possibility of moving the WHOLE platform to the newer standard by using sub-standard hardware in the launch devices. Sailfish v1.1 six months down the line can always adopt the newer drivers and function, ensuring that forever afterwards developers can target the new API safe in the knowledge of complete platform support.

Jolla have shown themselves forward thinking by launching Sailfish with Wayland, don't let the side down now!

mikecomputing | # 2 | 2013-07-20, 22:14 | Report

Now if OpenES3.0 is so important for you can you tell us WHY thats so important?

How many apps is using the API from 3.0 so far?

There is so many people who want stuff, but again we cannot expect everything. Ofcourse Android has it because the GFX manufactors support only android GFX drivers but question is is the apps using it?

Jedibeeftrix | # 3 | 2013-07-21, 09:09 | Report

mike, it should be obvious from the structure of my argument that i was not advocating feature "X" as essential to the success of the platform.

no, I was quite clearly stating that the whole point of a platform is to create a stable base upon which other can build.

if you are releasing a brand new platform then it makes absolute sense to jettison standards that have been surpassed where implementations exist of their successors.

there is no need to be inflexible here, for we all understand that platforms themselves grow over the course of the their lives, and it is understood that new standards will be adopted too.

no-one sensible expects sailfish to arrive with support for every future standard under the sun, including OpenGL ES 3.0, not too does anyone demand that every graphical app that arrives use those features...

however, what you really should not do is lock your brand new platform into an outdated standard at the beginning of its life, for forever afterwards you increase the complexity upon which others have to build.

... but launching Sailfish with OpenGL ES 2.0 compliant hardware (needlessly), means that even when jolla 2 and jolla 3 arrive in 2014 and 2015, sporting sailfish 2 and sailfish 3 respectively, developers will still be tied to the older API.

at which point you split the resources that might be invested in exploiting the platforms potential, because you need to bridge the gap with older and non-compliant hardware.

this is understandable, and even inevitable, in mature platforms, time and tides wait for no platform vendor, but as has been seen with android this is not pleasant and not a fate that should be blithely blundered into.

i recognise the standard; oh, time to give the feature'itus spiel and its patronising nonsense.

jolla should begin its life with OpenGL ES 3.0 compliant hardware, even if actual driver support takes another year to arrive, in order that as it matures the stable base upon which other can build is as advanced as possible.

mikecomputing | # 4 | 2013-07-21, 09:24 | Report

you dont answer my question what apps using the new api. Also I give you a new one: What of todays gfx SoC support 3.0?

to many people are focus to much on newest technology with triple cores xxxx mpix camera and so on but often can not tell mw WHY they need it.

its like when people try convince me that 1000 watt soundsystem sounds better than 80 watts

Fuzzillogic | # 5 | 2013-07-21, 09:32 | Report

Are mid-range SoCs (because that is what it will be) available with OpenGL ES 3.0 support? Quite often those SoCs tend to be previous gen high-ends with some cores and features stripped out.

I do agree however that this would be welcome. It would fit in Jolla's trend of hopping on new tech early on, as seen with Qt5, Wayland. I hope they do the same with bluetooth 4.0 and OpenGL ES 3.0.

Slightly related: do these GPU's also support OpenCL? It could provide the extra umph for certain applications.

Hurrian | # 6 | 2013-07-21, 09:42 | Report

All of the big names?[*]
[*] Unless Jolla pulls a Nokia and sells a 2013 device with 2011 hardware

Shipping the Jolla with GLES 3.0 enabled in Mesa shouldn't be too big a deal.

Heck, they should be targeting a mobile GPU with OpenGL (non-ES) 3.0 to please the desktop Linux fans, but IIRC the only mobile GPU that does this is the Adreno.

The only worry is that there's so much OpenGL ES 2.0-only hardware out there, and Sailfish licensees who'd like to produce, say, a mid-low end phone would probably find themselves fragmented out of some apps using fancy GLES3 stuff.

Jedibeeftrix | # 7 | 2013-07-21, 10:38 | Report

In addition to the list Hurrian noted below, OpenGL ES 3.0 compliance is becoming a standard feature in midrange chipsets too.

the adreno 305 as used in the Snapdragon S4 range, the the Snapdragon 400 range, currently found in:

Nokia Lumia 520,[37] Nokia Lumia 620,[37] Nokia Lumia 720,[37] Sony Xperia M,[38] Sony Xperia M dual[39]

HTC One SV (3G Version),[40] Huawei Ascend W1, Sony Xperia

HTC One VX,[42] HTC One SV (4G Version),[40] Samsung Galaxy Express[43]

HTC First,[102] HTC One mini[103]

Samsung Galaxy S4 Mini (GT-I9190),[104] Samsung Galaxy S4 Mini Duos[105]

Samsung Galaxy Mega 6.3,[106] Samsung Galaxy S4 Mini (GT-I9195)[107]

there is also a lowend Qualcomm chipset which has I believe has OpenGL ES 3.0 support via the Adreno 302 GPU.

Samsung have a mid-range product sporting an OpenGL ES 3.0 compliant GPU in the form of the T604:

the galaxy Mega 6.3

no doubt the IMG PVR 544 will become midrange once the rogue SoC's start turning up.

I'm sure there are more.

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Last edited by Jedibeeftrix; 2013-07-21 at 11:14.

Jedibeeftrix | # 8 | 2013-07-21, 10:40 | Report

http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p...&postcount=744

"Are you a developer yourself? If yes, you should now already that developing is moving forward not backward. Stuff changes all the time. Also developers inside Jolla knows that."

welcome to the future:

http://opengles3.com/
http://www.anandtech.com/show/6134/k...pression-clu/2

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Last edited by Jedibeeftrix; 2013-07-21 at 11:14.

mikecomputing | # 9 | 2013-07-21, 12:02 | Report

LOL I am not saying its bad going OpenES3.0 but thing is people does not give me any hints why its so damn important with this. STILL no one has answered what apps using OpenES3.0 API:s....
What new cool apps will we see cause of OpenES 3.0 etc...?

Also its funny that you give me link to someone who dislike Wayland and Qt5. Wayland is a mut if we wants latest and greatest 3D stuff escpecially cause of Android only drivers (means they have to use libhybris)

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Last edited by mikecomputing; 2013-07-21 at 12:15.

Fuzzillogic | # 10 | 2013-07-21, 12:14 | Report

Games.

10ch