Neo900 - finally a successor of N900 - Page 59 - maemo.org

endsormeans | # 581 | 2013-09-26, 20:34 | Report

Originally Posted by Fabry View Post

Nokia hasn't produced millions of N900 (less than 200.000 for me), it has paid for software development, it has build N900 when the hw was a top hw (and higher priced), it has paid for publicity, and finally it has had a discrete margin on sale price (about 700E).

So of course we need much more than 200 preorders to drop down prices at decent level (like 100-200E for board only and 300-350E for a full phone), but not certainly numbers with 5 or 6 zeros.

If you're going to quote me ..get it right. I didn't say Nokia...I said MS, Iphone , and Android.
But while on the topic...a corp can manage devel, publicity etc much more affordably and take losses in one area while benefiting in another.

And as far as much more than 200 preorders go.. and your estimate at getting a full phone for 300-350 EU....get a grip...look again at Dos1 post #5 since we would need most certainly 100 000 people = 6 DIGITS ...for the 300EU you want the phone for...

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mrk88 | # 582 | 2013-09-26, 20:40 | Report

Originally Posted by GrimyHR View Post

oh and an extremely important question, will the usb port be much stronger than the one on n900 and will we get any guaranties that it wont fall of with normal use like on n900?

So many people broke their usb ports supposedly from normal usage. Im connecting/disconnecting my n900 all the time, and the usb port still looks like new.

People yank on the cable or something

?

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Liknus | # 583 | 2013-09-26, 21:47 | Report

Hi all,
I'm new here, basically because of I just bought my "new"-first Nokia N900. I always wanted to give it a try.. And finally it's happening. I'm still waiting for it to be dispatched.

I must start by saying that I've read this thread up until the page #10. I'll keep reading the others, but I would like to post here some thoughts before I actually forgot them! : )
I don't want to be arrogant or insolent, just express what I think in my honest opinion!

I think that, in order to make this project real, you must reach a greater public. There are two current ways - I think - in order to achieve this.. 1) A marketing campaign 2) Introduce in the market something different.

Whilst the first option is out from "your" possibilities, the latter one can easily be done.
You said you are not going to dramatically change the design of the reference board - namely GTA04 - even though some of the current members here said they would spend lots of money into this project only if it will be packed with 1Gb of RAM. (Just as example)
A part from the fact that you are already loosing some possible customer (I'm an economist, or well, I'm studying economics.. So I do not understand a lot about PCB design; but i truly trust you when you say it is very problematic to do it in order to maintain up this OS), but you are also fastening this upcoming Neo900 to a less "bright" future..
Or better.. A nowadays smartphone must be responsible (It's up to the phone maker whereas to pack highend hw or to well-tune the sw) and most of all usable..

So, since the GTA04 will be one day - I dunno know when - update.. Why not start to thinking about it from now?
So.. You can currently start with some Neo900 for developers to start porting Maemo to the new hw.. and in the same time start working on the new mainboard. Even for what concern the CPU..

A drawback I would say about the N900 is the combination of its characteristic UI and the "little" screen.. Since it has not been made to be used completely/exclusively with fingers (but with the help of the sharp-pointed stick [what's its current name???]) you must use it with two hands.. And it makes it really difficult to use it with just one hand..
I want to highlight that i'm still waiting to receive mi fist N900, so I'm just guessing; but why not thinking about a new/bigger screen?
This will allows you to insert some more hw components into the case (that in this case will need to be re-design) and also a new battery.. Lots of people would like to have a hwkeyboarded device with tons of juice to power it).
And you can also think about adopting some other reference designed device (Palm/HP Pre 3 is outstanding for physical usability and build quality).

Another options that could help to achieve a far away bigger audience.. VHF/UHF radios.. Have any ideas of how many amateur radio operator would like to have such a feature on a daily usable smartphone?

And what about the ecosystem? The idea around the Ubuntu Edge was the possibility to have just one device that can be both used as a mobile device and a "portable" device which - at the necessity - can be turned into a PC.
It would be a nice idea to start thinking about something like this..
It would reach more people outside from this niche... Even because here you have a lot of N9 users.. that are gradually shifting to Jolla.. And who's probably looking at other opensource OS..

Never though about joining up more communities? If - as you wanna do - joining up Maemo.org and Openmoko community could help both of them.. Why not including some other little communities that can help out with this..
You'll have more possible customers.. More developers.. more testers.. etc.

I really understand that including these features is problably not the aim of your project.. but.. If i have to spend 400€ for a phone.. I would like it to last for some years..! : )

Now i must conclude because I'm probably out of topic..
I am so so sorry if I wrote this "piece" in a non-pretty way.. But English is not my mother language!

Cheers for Italy - Helping you out spreading this project and looking forward for further infos : )
L.
: )

Last edited by Liknus; 2013-09-26 at 22:01.

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Fabry | # 584 | 2013-09-26, 23:04 | Report

Originally Posted by endsormeans View Post

And as far as much more than 200 preorders go.. and your estimate at getting a full phone for 300-350 EU....get a grip...look again at Dos1 post #5 since we would need most certainly 100 000 people = 6 DIGITS ...for the 300EU you want the phone for...

I have read it, but probably they have production cost too high and they must change something in their pipeline to reduce it (i.e. changing production location and factory).

10 Milion of pre-paid orders needed to build the board (only the board and not the neo900 board but the more simple GTA Four) for 199E is very very strange.

If so complicated to reduce cost someone must explain why others can produce pandaboard (which is more powerful and probably with higher cost) and sell it at near 150E without needing 20-30.000.000 of pre-sold boards.
Why Ubuntu Edge ask only for about 50-70.000 units (not reached) and instead it seems that we need 50.000.000 to do the same ?
And raspberry pi foundation (ok raspberry pi is much simpler than neo900) or chinese factories how they have done to produce their gadgets at low cost ?

Last edited by Fabry; 2013-09-26 at 23:18.

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wicket | # 585 | 2013-09-26, 23:16 | Report

Originally Posted by Fabry View Post

I am not an Apple's fan but iPhone 3GS has received all updates up to iOS 6.0, so a phone older (six months) than N900 until 2 months ago was yet fully supported.

That may be true but you can expect to experience reduced performance when using recent versions of iOS on older iPhones. CSSU doesn't suffer from this.

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joerg_rw | # 586 | 2013-09-26, 23:28 | Report

@fabry: thanks for the lessons how to do my job. don't you want to do it instead?

Sure, we'll build a board with a SoC for 52USD and a modem for >100USD and several other pricey components and sell it for a 40 bucks to do you a favour.

Last edited by joerg_rw; 2013-09-26 at 23:46.

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Fabry | # 587 | 2013-09-26, 23:29 | Report

Yes but CSSU is not a newer OS and radically improved OS.
It isn't a Meamo 8.1 developed on more recent & powerful phone and then adapted to older phone.

CSSU is more like a iOS 3.1 or 3.5 (iPhone 3GS come out with iOS 3.0)

MeeGo/Nemo which is only the next step (like iOS 4.0) is already with reduced performance on N900

Last edited by Fabry; 2013-09-26 at 23:32.

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Fabry | # 588 | 2013-09-26, 23:37 | Report

Originally Posted by joerg_rw View Post

@fabry: thanks for the lessons how to do my job. don't you want to do it instead?

No I am not interested.
If you tell that with 200-500 units the price is 700E is ok.

But when you/someone other speak about milions of units to go only about 350-400E, it seems strange (not false, but at least strange).

Probably others, not me, do the job better than you/the team since prices for other gadgets are lower, much lower.

Don't hurt there is always someone better (and this is valid for everyone).

Last edited by Fabry; 2013-09-27 at 00:14.

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wicket | # 589 | 2013-09-26, 23:57 | Report

Originally Posted by Fabry View Post

Yes but CSSU is not a newer OS and radically improved OS.
It isn't a Meamo 8.1 developed on more recent & powerful phone and then adapted to older phone.

CSSU is more like a iOS 3.1 or 3.5 (iPhone 3GS come out with iOS 3.0)

Yes, but the point raised was whether or not the OS is still supported, not whether or not the OS has been radically improv^W bloated with new features. I'd rather not have the update if it's going to slow down the device.

Originally Posted by Fabry View Post

MeeGo/Nemo which is only the next step (like iOS 4.0) is already with reduced performance on N900

Not really. There's the Fremantle rebased over Debian project which shouldn't have a significant impact on performance.

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Fabry | # 590 | 2013-09-26, 23:58 | Report

Originally Posted by joerg_rw View Post

Sure, we'll build a board with a SoC for 52USD and a modem for >100USD and several other pricey components and sell it for a 40 bucks to do you a favour.

And we must purchase a 200-250E HW at 500-600E to make you more rich ?

52Usd for ONE soc, for 5000 is at 37USD each, and for 50.000-100.000 ?
Probably not more less (it is always a TI Soc).

I have not asked to sell to 40USD, I have only told that I think that prices can be cutted more with higher production (like 20-50.000 units and not millions) since others have reached the goal.
You can never reach a max of 300USD (for only board), ok no problem.
Probably it is impossible or it is not at your possibilities, in either cases we will not have an acceptable price and only very few of us will buy it.

PS
I don't think you are overcharging the price and you are trying to become rich with us, but if you reply acid (as you often do) you will get replies with same ...

Last edited by Fabry; 2013-09-27 at 00:01.

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