alternative OSs? - Page 4 - maemo.org

luca | # 31 | 2008-02-05, 22:40 | Report

Originally Posted by GeneralAntilles View Post

Probably worthwhile to do more research.

Debian ARMEL installs and runs just fine.

but some critical components (like the wifi adapter) are secret, so you can't upgrade the kernel if you want to keep it working (well, you probably can now, but you probably won't be able to in a year or 2, when the propietary part has bit rotten and recompiling the "open source" shim won't be enough).

qole | # 32 | 2008-02-06, 00:31 | Report

I have managed to get the Debian Armel distro working using the system described here, which uses a chroot and vncviewer.

PROS: You don't have to boot into it or leave Maemo or anything. You can run quite a few different windows managers well. You can run the Epiphany browser, but the DebArmel guys don't have Firefox (or "Iceweasel" as it is called in Debian) running yet. You can also set the screen size to be bigger than the tablet's screen (I set it to 770x600, which means only a single vertical scroll bar). You can get Abiword running this way. You can use the virtual keyboard and/or an external Bluetooth keyboard because you're running through vncviewer.

CONS: No sound, and running two operating systems simultaneously can have some performance impact ;-) Also, lack of Java for this architecture has left it without OpenOffice.

Last edited by qole; 2008-02-06 at 00:35.

Johnx | # 33 | 2008-02-06, 01:28 | Report

@qole: iceweasel looks like it's available for Debian armel now. version 2.0.0.9. Honestly though, epiphany-webkit works great. google maps works pretty well on it in full screen mode, too. For me the cons are enough that I'm determined to make Debian work in a standalone way.

@luca: This is very true, but hopefully a free alternative userland will encourage people to work on open source replacements for the closed kernel stuff...

Benson | # 34 | 2008-02-06, 17:17 | Report

Originally Posted by brecklundin View Post

ah, you are correct that in a Winblows system the drivers for a device might be proprietary but if a component is no longer supported by it's MFG you can replace THAT component and not have to find a whole new system.

The flexibility of the hardware platform is such that should an MFG go under a replacement for that discrete component can be had easily.

In the case of a UMPC/PDA/IT if the device maker controls how and what can be run on a device because they alone control the drivers then in a single instant the device is render useless for more than a few users who have invested significant time and money in the device. Much of that investment was based on promises or better said intimations of steady improvements which more often than not turn into vaporware.

Oh, I see, the software futures market...

Originally Posted by

Like I wrote, Sony did the EXACT same thing with their Clie's. Completely restricted the device drivers to proprietary drivers in firmware that was no user accessible. Then after people invested easily over a $1000 each (adding software and such) the platform was dropped abandoning those users to frustration.

And you got burned. That's easy to do, speculating in futures. Next time, buy something on the basis of current capabilities and potential that you can exploit yourself, and you'll run a lot less risk.

Originally Posted by

I just cannot trust any company that is this restrictive. Potentially these restrictions can control the type of content the device and run...never to be improved or expanded. I will not invest in planed and manipulated obsolesence.

Please, control content? How!? Userland is largely open-source. You can put on any open-source program you can build for it. Maybe they could cripple this in a future firmware if they wanted (which they don't), but they can't make you upgrade your firmware.

Originally Posted by

<snip>

Sorry if you cannot grasp that idea...but have been there done that far too many times. Not gonna do it again. Pal...

Cannot grasp that idea? Your idea seems to be that when systems are not modular (which is a cost of miniaturization), they must have completely open software, or you won't buy. And that you were considering an N800 for some purpose, which I presume required a compact, portable device. I think I grasped that idea pretty well:

Originally Posted by Benson View Post

But if you're really not going down the proprietary driver route again, I can't help but wonder what device(s) you'll use to fill the place you had been thinking about the N800 for.

Your options are pretty limited; I don't know of any completely open devices in this class, though I haven't looked. I'm not familiar with the Clie saga, but from your comments, it seems they were much more closed than the N8x0. I know all the serious competitors at the moment are closed.

The N8x0 is quite open; as I understand it, everything but a few kernel-space binaries is open-source, or can be replaced by open-source software. Any open-source software can probably be recompiled to run on an older kernel, so this is, practically, very little restriction.

If you can't bring yourself to buy it on account of these restrictions, I'm not aware of any similar devices you could buy instead.

Rebski | # 35 | 2008-02-07, 20:45 | Report

Originally Posted by

What about Ubuntu Embedded?

I read about it today: http://linuxuk.blogspot.com/2007/08/...a-770n800.html

but it's half year later, anyone with news?
Reply With Quote

This may touch on the subject.
http://www.itwire.com/content/view/16528/1090/1/2/
Developer Matthew Garrett is leaving Debian and he briefly mentions his work with Canonical, "I mostly worked on the integration of hardware support for mobile devices. Particularly on things to do with the Ubuntu mobile project, which aims to produce a Linux distribution that is optimised for the new Intel Menlow platform that will be coming out shortly, based on the Silverthorne processor, which are going to be similar devices to the Nokia internet tablet but with significantly enhanced performance."

So the project seems to be alive. Personally I can't get enough of 'significantly enhanced performance'.

johnkzin | # 36 | 2008-02-07, 22:29 | Report

Speaking of "Other OSes on Nokia products" --

http://www.engadget.com/2008/02/07/m...indows-mobile/

Now, pardon me while I hurl...

gentux | # 37 | 2008-02-07, 23:42 | Report

Originally Posted by Rebski View Post

This may touch on the subject.
http://www.itwire.com/content/view/16528/1090/1/2/
Developer Matthew Garrett is leaving Debian and he briefly mentions his work with Canonical, "I mostly worked on the integration of hardware support for mobile devices. Particularly on things to do with the Ubuntu mobile project, which aims to produce a Linux distribution that is optimised for the new Intel Menlow platform that will be coming out shortly, based on the Silverthorne processor, which are going to be similar devices to the Nokia internet tablet but with significantly enhanced performance."

So the project seems to be alive. Personally I can't get enough of 'significantly enhanced performance'.

Menlow is x86 based... then there's not much chance for us Tableters. But on the other hand, the Menlow based MIDs can't run on standby for several days like the NITs (correct me if I'm wrong)

Rebski | # 38 | 2008-02-08, 00:09 | Report

This article is interesting on some of the differences between Siverthorne and ARM
http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post...obile-cpu.html

As regards running on standby see the reference to "In order to alleviate some of the power difference between its chips and ARM's, Intel has equipped Silverthorne with a new low-power state, called C6."

Rebski | # 39 | 2008-02-15, 11:32 | Report

I have just spotted this information on Linpus
http://www.linux-watch.com/news/NS8274147234.html
http://www.linpus.com/xampp/webmaste...nux9.4Lite.htm

UI designed specifically for hand-held 4”- 7”screen
Normal mode uses KDE 3.5x desktop.

SYSTEM REQUIREMENTS
Intel x86 compatible
Intel, AMD and VIA at 366MHz and up
Minimum 512 MB (SATA/IDE/SSD) hard disk space required
Minimum 128 MB RAM required

From what I can see, it is very similar to the Zaurus OS - which I much prefer to the N800.

iontruo2 | # 40 | 2008-02-15, 12:34 | Report

Originally Posted by brecklundin View Post

I realize you are tyring to show how much you truly enjoy the device and how useful you feel it might be...but these tools are NOT CHEAP. $200-$250 is a lot of money to many people. That is part of the problem in today's throw-away mindset here in the US...for $200+ I expect to receive years of use and value for my money. I once was in that rarefied air income wise...but you would be surprised what a couple turns in your health and lost/cancelled health care insurance can do to a person in a decade. Things now need to be budgeted. Cheap is not needed but value is upper most importance. I would rather wait another 6-mo. to save additional funds then buy something that is just OK for a year or so.

I do appreciate your enthusiasm...it's infectious and helpful...I think your use is close enough to how I would want to use the device....so THANKS...

I really now need to read the threads here in detail. I dunno how I missed this place but it's so cool to find such a wealth of info and answers...seriously thanks!!

I am straying a little off the main topic here, so I'll be brief. My enthusiastic remarks were a 'reply' to your post. I appreciate your point above re: costs. really

. I too have lamented in these forums the need for product support longer than a mere few months and fwiw I use a Tre650 phone/pda which is now a pretty old unit. A couple hundred bucks for many is a lot, I agree, I guess my thrust was that after that one is not being drained ongoing, paying for every stitch of software for the product(ie pda) like Windows Mobile or Palm etc. at often over inflated price points.
To me that represents a huge savings in money and the bonus is the software is actually very good in most cases.
This is a good community. Some astonishingly smart people developing here. Me, I'm just a well informed user...and loving it.