pichlo | # 381 | 2014-06-02, 21:54 | Report

<OT>
Perhaps this reliability would improve if Estel didn't try so hard to p1$$ off the moderator(s) so much. He has a knack for perhaps asking the right questions but in the most provocative way. Perhaps a Diplomacy 101 might solve at least some of his problems.
</OT>

backcover_press_service | # 382 | 2014-06-02, 22:03 | Report

@misiak
Thank you for making me notice CC footer (I just registered here, honestly haven't noticed it). I have browsed through it briefly, and if I'm right that it apply to all Estel's post content (even one posted before migration), I think it makes nuking account and content from here unnecessary.

Our doubts about reliability of TMO's management stand still, though. See progress update annoucement and Estel's post, it contains link for the post that he was banned (for a month) for. Also, there is at least one example of his (CC licensed, as it seems) post that was edited by moderator (administrator, chemist) in a way that changes content, without any note/edit author/whatever. For bystanders, there was no sign that the new content wasn't written by Estel.

In my opinion, the above breaks CC rules. We don't want or have time to wrestle with administrations here, so indeed, we do it FOSS way - take our toys and fork. It would look differently if the Maemo's Community would stand against bad practices that are happening here, but people seems to be indifferent. In such case, we're not the ones to fight windmills.

Now, back on topic, please? Pretty please?
****

Arien Stokowiec

Update
I don't know for you, but I would not like to post my project on board, where I'm either terrorized by unreliablemoderators, or forced to keep my nose in my projects only, without ability to comment on other things. While Estel's writing may be provocative, we both thing that we wasn't breaking TMO rules while posting the very post that he was banned for. We also think that the moderator banning him *was* breaking the rules, and in fact, shouldn't even be granted ability to ban anyone, in the first place.

As you might have noticed, I'm much more diplomacy-inclined than Estel is (or probably, ever will be). But, people are different, and as long as they're not breaking the law/rules, they shouldn't be penalized, no matter if we like them, or not. This stands triple as much for anyone wielding moderator powers. As far as I know, Estels provocative words haven't resulted in anyone being unable to post progress update on his projects for a month.

But, if Community is willing to discuss those things, please, create separate topic for it. This thread isn't about TMO fork.

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Last edited by backcover_press_service; 2014-06-02 at 22:09.

misiak | # 383 | 2014-06-02, 22:11 | Report

Do as you wish, just remember that abill_uk whose case I linked in previous post vanished without a trace after abandoning tmo.

Can you point that one example? In vBulletin, when a moderator edits other user's posts, it appends "Last edited by MODERATOR_NAME, TIME" at the end (you cannot remove that easily). I know posts by not only Estel, but also other uses that were edited (with reasons, sometimes even legal reasons), but they had that text appended by vBulletin engine.

Ok, ok. We are talking on topic - after all, I'm commenting stuff you wrote in progress update Feel free to start new thread and move posts there, I will happily move mine there, too.

Me too, but I don't know any such bad place.

After all, moderators are "the police" of this forum, so you may think you do good, but it doesn't matter. I remember some suggestions to change the system somehow, but noone came up with solution better enought to attract other people in the discussion. Either way, I've been here for almost 5 years and this is the second time I see someone having problems with the rules (having tens of thousands of users), so it doesn't necesserily indicate that the problem is with the rules. But maybe it also means that you will be really better off keeping away, in some other place (again that wasn't meant to sound rude).

I will happily post in that thread it there is any, but I'm not the one that announced plans for it, so I'm not going to start the thread ;p

edit: I'm concerned about Estel going away. After all, he is very active member and did some useful stuff in the past (and was Council at some time if I remember correctly, but stepped back). If he thinks it will be better for him to start his own place then to accept rules of this place, it's his choice. But this place gained momentum for many years, had commercial support and was advertised by once-major mobile company, etc., etc. and it still isn't that popular after all (generally speaking).

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Last edited by misiak; 2014-06-02 at 22:17.

zlatokosi | # 384 | 2014-06-02, 22:16 | Report

Good to get an update with pictures. Keep the thread on topic everyone.

backcover_press_service | # 385 | 2014-06-02, 22:21 | Report

Fortunately or not, I don't have moderator rights, so I can't move posts from here to somewhere else. Also, I'm not here to fix TMO and it's administrators/moderators behavior, I think it's up to the "real" TMO users. If they're not interested, either I'm not.

Anyway, if such thread ever appear, I'll post example that you requested there. For now, sending you a PM.

Just for the record - for me, abusing moderation against one user amongst thousand of indifferent ones is no better than abusing half of them, so your argument from part starting with moderator's as police doesn't hit the spot. Real police answer to someone, current TMO management answer to no one. Community abandoned it's governing position.

But, again, it's not our job (or motivation) to fix it, especially that others seems to not be interested/concerned. If you like it the way it is, take your time. We don't, so we move somewhere else. IF the forum starts to work and IF someone, at some point, feel like joining in, welcome. Otherwise, it will remain a board about backcover replacement (and, in future, body replacement, and other replacement/CNC projects of Estel)
***

Thank you, we will try to keep it coming +1 for keeping thread on the (main) topic.

Arien Stokowiec

Win7Mac | # 386 | 2014-06-02, 23:24 | Report

Major part of the problem is that joerg is moderator in his own topics (Neo900, NeoFremantle). This shouldn't be the case IMHO.
I figured
option #1: give Estel his own backcover topic with mod rights
option #2: revoke mod rights from joerg
I prefer #2 for different reasons.

...just my 2 cents
<please move to new thread>

Ken-Young | # 387 | 2014-06-03, 01:07 | Report

I for one sorta hope that the final product is a butt-ugly metal beast. Maybe that's going a bit too far, but it would be fun to have a phone that looks like style was the absolute last consideration in the design. The world is full to the brim with shiny fragile phones. The press gushes about rounded edges and thinness. I'd *love* to have a phone 3 cm thick that only needed to be charged once a week with heavy usage!

Akkumaru | # 388 | 2014-06-03, 01:28 | Report

Nice to see it moving. I just hope the fat variant will come a lot sooner now

backcover_press_service | # 389 | 2014-06-03, 20:40 | Report

It will. The one and only last thing we need to overcome is problem with uniform color of anodizing (doesn't apply to colorless - natural alu - anodizing, which, BTW, is also even more resistant than colour one - not a big factor, just a little). After that, we're starting to send to pre-orderers and offer purchase to anyone, in that order. Just keep in mind that it's about 3 days work on machine itself (it need to mill it veeeeery slowly), and then 4-5 days of human work, so it might be a week or two per single unit (depending on how long ano shop does it job). Of course we will circumvent it by doing covers in series (the same procedure applied to, lets say, 10 covers, then another procedure, etc), but one still need to count a week per complete cover.

Far variant, indeed, comes immediately after flat one get ready to be shipped. Or even in parallel - really, making it flat first was just a matter of saving alu on units that failed to anodize properly, until we get the formula/matt surface right.

Also, I'm very glad that there are more people that like mean-looking devices The beauty here is that people liking shiny black devices, will be able to get them. People looking matt devices, too. Rusty devices should be possible. Surface on various levels of finish (have I mentioned that my private one won't be polished at all, still containing all the beautiful tracks from CNC mill?), etc. Everyone (almost) should be able to pick own favorite variant. Even the pink ones
***

Arien Stokowiec

hxka | # 390 | 2014-06-03, 20:43 | Report

Why on Earth do you keep to reposting the same comment ever again?