misterc | # 191 | 2014-08-05, 08:49 | Report

is the (final?) answer then that Jolla has given up on hardware keyboard?

Dave999 | # 192 | 2014-08-05, 09:44 | Report

Given up? It has never even been on their radar. Why not buy a jolla and a keyboard from dirk?

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Last edited by Dave999; 2014-08-05 at 11:23.

misterc | # 193 | 2014-08-05, 16:02 | Report

just to set the record straight...
several times during 2013 Jolla "top brasses" mentioned that a hardware keyboard TOH was a very real possibility.
any other company one would call it "marketing crap" but i guess considering Jolla's "stop losses" strategy since beginning of the year, one could call it "vaporware"

looks pretty much like soon Jolla itself is just going to be bitter memory...

ps: o, yeah, that community rubbish, were most of the keyboards had defective or poorly working keys?

EDIT: oki doki, apologies for missing Dirk's 2nd / new project. if it wasn't for an update to his project thread just after i typed this wouldn't even know about it (yet)...
o well, a troll is a troll...
when typing that i was still under the impression that it was "three in one"... the 1st, the only and the last one
my mistake

well, that may be the real cause for Jolla's trouble... fantasising that "community" is going to be their "business model" ¦-))))))))
as i already mentioned elsewhere, they obviously didn't learn anything from the Maemo debacle @ NOKIA - gawd knows they had the best seats to follow it...
no brain, no pain?

EDIT: still for Jolla to pool, for example, in Communicator fan boys / nostalgics, i think Dirk will have to seriously scale up operations... well, @ least he has a business model

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Last edited by misterc; 2014-08-05 at 17:04. Reason: oooups, just noticed Dirk's 2nd "project" ~:o}

jalyst | # 194 | 2014-08-05, 17:24 | Report

They've never said officially that a keyb TOH is definitely coming, they've agreed it might be a good idea, & something they may consider, nothing more.
They have welcomed the work done by dirk & others, & helped in small ways, but that's about as far as the extent of their involvement...
Will it come one day? Who knows. God knows they've been juggling a sh1t-load in the last 24mths, especially the last ~6, & it's only getting crazier.

I do agree though that they need far more substantive TOH hw &/or partners*, what they've delivered so far are little more than gimmicks...
We're yet to hear the full (& more interesting) story when it comes to TOH's, IMO it's due by Dec. at the latest, else they won't have delivered on the early promise/potential of TOH.
Personally I'm more interested in other TOH's, but a qwerty one is no doubt one of the most popular TOH's, if not the most popular one...


*that's partly why they'll prolly need to stick to the same form-factor for the J2, you don't build-up an accessory ecosystem by constantly changing form-factors, as Apple knows

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Last edited by jalyst; 2014-08-05 at 17:41.

misterc | # 195 | 2014-08-05, 17:52 | Report

½ way [off topic], so let's try to keep it short...

crazy?
like in keeping a project in the air for ½ a dozen yrs without ever considering making it commercially viable until, well, until it was too late?
not sure Jolla can afford that, even until the end of the year, i'm afraid
in fact, from the dramatic price drops and desperate entries in new markets (India, China (?), HK), pretty darn sure they can't

crazy?
like in just having commited over 100€ to a (most likely) new Neo900 (board) this very morning & realizing this PM that i could actually get a hardware keyboard for my Jolla for... well, comparable amount - thus saving over 500€, give or take?
then again, Sailfish isn't and never will be Maemo Fremantle... >¦-)

crazy?
like having spent over 200€ on a Moto Photon Q (with cyanogenmod) and falling back on my 1st N900 with damaged sliding mechanism less then a month latter simply because nothing will ever (again) be like this little computer in our pocket, running a pretty much full fledged Linux based OS :.|
so crazy that over 300 ppl are willing to spend 700 or more €s to get a Neo900...

pick your choice

jalyst | # 196 | 2014-08-05, 17:55 | Report

Re-read my updated post before jumping the gun, once again...
You'll find there's more common ground in our perspectives than differences.

misterc | # 197 | 2014-08-05, 18:04 | Report

(see previous post...)

they don't have until the end of the year, as i already pointed out in last couple posts... they can't afford this "community strategy" anymore that was okay / cute while Symbian was earning the butter & bread, but now? too late


if memory serves well, J2 won't have TOH... thus moot point
you don't (really) expect them to all of a sudden go into offensive, do you?
since beginning of the year, their strategy has been one of retreat :.(
not a good strategy for a start up :|

EDIT:
copy that ¦-)
than again, common ground might more be fundamental differences, no?

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Last edited by misterc; 2014-08-05 at 18:08.

misterc | # 198 | 2014-08-05, 18:16 | Report

to put it bluntly, Jolla is dead
or more phlegmatically running out of resources.
bleeding capital.
then can't even afford to sell the Jolla at a cost covering price, and they certainly won't be able to do that in markets where devices have to be cheaper
a SGS3 is about 20'000 rupees
that's less then the 250€ the Jolla cost now
and they should earn the money to dev a J2?!?
wake up

EDIT: correct that... 250€ is SGS3...
EDIT2: which is (slightly) cheaper in India

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Last edited by misterc; 2014-08-05 at 18:32.

jalyst | # 199 | 2014-08-05, 18:21 | Report

Sigh FFS, do not respond to this please, send me a PM if you want to continue discussing, this is already waaay OT...

I said that was the latest, & they did hint about ~2mth back that they hoped to make an announcement relating to TOH round about then. You don't have any intimate knowledge of their financial state, I only say then at the latest not because I know the state of their books, but merely because that's about the latest before they start to lose currency when it comes to delivering a credible TOH story. It might be as late as that simply because they're also trying to smooth out several other projects (& no I won't outline them, this is already crazy OT), ideally it'll be sooner than Dec, if it's later I think it'll hurt them too much.

There's no solid info. on what shape the J2 will take, only pure speculation & conjecture, they may drop TOH, but it'd be a mistake & a waste of LOTS of time/resources expended if they do so IMO. They need to at least see it through properly first, measure the effectiveness (or lack there-of), & then abandon it if it's clearly not helping. I've no idea what you're rambling on about in your last 3 sentences, I'm sorry.

And, you're massively assuming what the J1's RRP & ultimate street price will be in India...
We don't know that yet, for all we know it may only be modest mark-up to similarly spec'd Android devices.
They probably can't afford to undercut, but a modest mark-up might be do-able for them...
If they equalised or undercut it'd hurt them too much I suspect, as they have way more overheads than a Chinese (or similar) ODM.
But who knows, maybe they've cut some really good deals lately, you/I simply don't know...

You trying to claim that all they've done/achieved so far, is mainly because of what they did whist still at Nokia, & due to all the $/resources they had available to them then.*
If you are you'd be wrong, the vast majority of what they've achieved so far, has come from B.S.T tears "post" Nokia, there was little ground work in place to "set them up" for Sailfish.

You've got to be kidding me, go back to Nokia, f5ck no, that'd be like... amongst the dumbest things ever...
There's MANY other potential (& likely better) suitors, besides, it's too early/hard to say yet whether that's even necessary.
Please, enough with the silly little additions to your posts, it's still the same thing as continuing OT posts, as I said, PM me if you want to continue discussing this.

*haha that's funny

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Last edited by jalyst; 2014-08-05 at 20:15.

misterc | # 200 | 2014-08-05, 18:23 | Report

indeed, the only future for Jolla Oy is as a (software) department of... NOKIA Oy
:-{



EDIT(2): (and that's NOT [OT])
EDIT3: then again, who gives a F### about Sailfish OS on a Nexus for gawd crying out loud?!?
EDIT4: admittedly, our house troll would have a point... SailfishOS has to run on any cheap crappy Android device, to attract that kind of manufacturer... sad, isn't it?
EDIT5: and that's not gona pay the bills, not @ the end of the year and not ever >¦-)
EDIT6: end of topic?

EDIT7: ever heard the expression
???
the Jolla folks had a free lunch (for 6 years) when they were @ NOKIA.
no more
unless...

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Last edited by misterc; 2014-08-05 at 19:21.