rcolistete | # 231 | 2014-08-28, 17:47 | Report

Some people here just want everybody orbit around him/her, in a endless discussion.

Imagine the days spent in this hate crusade if it was used for Qt Quick (or Python, etc) programming.

w00t | # 232 | 2014-08-28, 17:55 | Report

And why is this such a surprising thing to you?

As an example, take a Jolla, and hand it to someone without letting them walk through the tutorial with zero exposure to the UI or its paradigms, and they won't be able to switch applications, because it's "different". And then they'll accidentally end up with the notifications feed, etc, etc, etc. This is why the device tutorial exists, and this is why new users - like your typical journalist would be - are put through that tutorial.

Also, unreleased software can be (and often is) incredibly broken in a million different ways.

You give that to someone from the press, and they discover that the browser plays five frames of video from youtube and crashes for instance because of some work-in-progress bug, and congratulations, instead of "Jolla is working hard on their software" as a headline, you just earned "Jolla's phone can't even play video".

Initial experience is everything with someone who isn't a "convert". I spoke about this before, but I really don't think you realise just how hard dealing with someone who knows nothing about all of this can be. To draw a sort-of-parallel, you might have just a matter of minutes at best to try get them to understand how things work and get them on your "side". Crashing software and having to spend those five minutes manually explaining/demoing the software, for instance, are going to ruin your chance for such an initial experience.

And if that person is publically covering your product, they might ruin your initial experience with a much wider audience.

And you don't think that warrants any care at all?

pango | # 233 | 2014-08-28, 17:56 | Report

Yes, that's what I want.

Because I can't possibly want Jolla to be more transparent and succeed better through the improved community reaction that would bring.

No, wait. I want the latter.

If anything, I've tried to keep the discussion around jalyst's suggestion:

http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p...1&postcount=29

Don't give a hoot about me or my words, but for Jolla's sake, think about jalyst's suggestion.

pango | # 234 | 2014-08-28, 17:59 | Report

I agree they probably have been panicking and have been trying to look perfect and thus forgot about how much trust transparency can build even through tough times - and reverse, how quickly trust erodes when transparency is lacking. I'm suggesting they not be so afraid of looking a little more rough, but also a little more open and honest in the process. I think their public image would improve.

I guess you can feel the openness of Jolla on IRC when they are not kicking or blocking you? But I do agree, aside from certain surprising non-open components (that actually make Sailfish a less open alternative than some), Jolla is quite an OK FOSS citizen. I think their participation mostly in FOSS stuff is OK.

Morpog | # 235 | 2014-08-28, 18:06 | Report

The only guy I ever ever ever saw gotting kicked there in the last 2 1/2 years was fk_lx. Have you seen what he did to the piratepads? Or on the developer maillist? He continued even after the community, not Jolla, asked him to stop his defacing and spamming. Should he do the same on IRC? Is that a sane behavior?

For me the discussion ends here. It's useless to discuss with you. I even started again to think that I'm discussing with fk_lx.

pango | # 236 | 2014-08-28, 18:08 | Report

I guess it shouldn't be. Jolla has been shown to try and protect their pristine image in ways that I have a hard time fitting with an idea of modern, agile, social tech company. They are indeed quite closed and controlled in their comms policy, very old world aside from the fluffy stuff. I'd rather see something different from them.

No no, I do think it warrants care. I just think it was shooting a fly with artillery in the context of a guy loaning his Jolla to a blogger.

There appears to be a pretty controlling culture within Jolla, which makes people afraid to step outside of that. I guess that is why people are so vague in the comms as well, afraid of a superior or team reaction and not sure what can be said and done. Some that, of course, is understandable, but I'm not getting a very open vibe from Jolla.

pango | # 237 | 2014-08-28, 18:09 | Report

Come on, people post popcorn images and make jokes all throughout the thread without me quitting. Live a little. Laugh a little. It was a joke.

That said, I believe Jolla has recently used banning and closing in other places, contexts with a few other people as well. No?

RFS-81 | # 238 | 2014-08-28, 18:09 | Report

Since this is such a major issue to you, a free tip: if you can't live with the "level of openness in communication" Jolla provides, the easiest way out is to take your money to some company that provides it on the level you need it. Problem solved.

pango | # 239 | 2014-08-28, 18:14 | Report

I can perfectly well live with the lack of openness Jolla provides, but I do see things cropping up for Jolla within the community and am offering my thoughts on how they could improve in this area.

Again, here is jalyst's post that made me respond because it resonated:

http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p...1&postcount=29

Think about his post, if not mine.

And why would I want to take the easiest way out, if I'd like to see Jolla succeed instead? I just don't think being a silent or cheering apologist is the way to go when I see something I think they would do well to reconsider.

Mine is a honest suggestion. Transparency breeds trust. And that's good for business as it is for community.

RFS-81 | # 240 | 2014-08-28, 18:19 | Report

Fine, but offering that one thought for 24 pages? I'm sure it's more than enough for Jolla to pick it up, if they're interested.