The Epic Android Thread - Page 461 - maemo.org

Tigerroast | # 4601 | 2014-12-02, 13:44 | Report

Originally Posted by mscion View Post

So my question is, and it is serious despite how I've framed it, how gnu is android? Is it as gnu as the OS found on Nokia N900 or Jolla phone. Are certain features associated with gnu removed from the gnu found on android? Just trying to understand. Thanks!

Well, to answer the original question, not very much. Most of the userland on Android is made by Google, not GNU. I'd wager that the amount of GNU used in the N900 as opposed to Android is night and day.

Don't quote me on that.

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endsormeans | # 4602 | 2014-12-02, 13:45 | Report

"Android doesn’t include the GNU C Library (glibc) , nor does it include all of the GNU libraries you’d find on a typical Linux distribution. It also doesn’t include an X server like Xorg, so you can’t run standard graphical Linux applications."
In a nut shell.....it ain't gnu. tigerroast says it aptly...n900 is day to android night. n900 is faaaaarrr more gnu-ey than android.

now chrome os that is a slightly different shade of turtle.

"Chrome OS is closer to standard desktop Linux distributions so you can use developer mode to install the missing Linux desktop software."

little better.

Last edited by endsormeans; 2014-12-02 at 14:06.

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mscion | # 4603 | 2014-12-02, 14:28 | Report

Originally Posted by Copernicus View Post

Ok, Android newbie question here. I've got an Android device, but I've noticed that there is no terminal app. So, I guess you're getting a terminal app from the Play Store or something, right? Is there a preference as to which one is best?

I use "terminal emulator"

https://play.google.com/store/apps/d...roidterm&hl=en

You might also try "hackers keyboard" if you like Ctrl and tab readily available. You can also get Ctrl using a different keyboard by pressing your down volume, then, for example, tab is press "down volume" and then "i"

https://play.google.com/store/apps/d...keyboard&hl=en

The keyboard in the previous screeshot is called "Swiftkey"

Last edited by mscion; 2014-12-02 at 14:37.

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mscion | # 4604 | 2014-12-02, 14:49 | Report

Originally Posted by endsormeans View Post

Ah-ta ...as my gran used to say when grankids were touching something hot...

the joys of the droid app market and weeding through the crap to find what you really really need.

look up Android Terminal Emulator app.
but it's ball-less ...it's an absolute nowhere.
I've spent some time and researched just what devices/platforms had the best ...umm..."flexibility" ...yea...good word...droid isn't in the ballpark I like to play in.
in the end ....root and you can use busybox...

In the end the question is...To root or not to root ...that is the question...
Is it better to have rooted and lost...than never rooted at all...
A root! A root! my platform for a root!
Rooteo! oh Rooteo! Wherefore art thou my Rooteo?

Yes. I totally agree. To make android tolerable you need to root and install busybox. In fact, I'm not sure if the command "uname -a" even works without using busybox! Eventully, install a nicer kernel that expands your phones capabilities, The one I use, built for Note 3 does the following among other things.

Supported Filesystems: Ext2, Ext3, Ext4, FAT32, NTFS, USB OTG, exFAT, CIFS, F2FS
★ Linaro GCC Toolchain Version: 4.9-2014.08
★ SETUID Restrictions Removed
★ A Bunch Of CodeAurora Fixes
★ Linux Kernel Version: 3.4.104
★ SELinux Status: Permissive
★ Kernel Compression: XZ
★ /proc/last.kmsg Support
★ ADB Insecured Kernel
★ USB Mass Storage
★ Init.d Support
★ Intelli-Plug CPU Hotplug Driver With Eco Mode
★ Implemented Patches For DriveDroid App
★ Use Android Device As USB Keyboard/Mouse
★ PowerSuspend PM Kernel Driver
★ Imoseyon's Custom Voltage Control
★ Asynchronous Fsync Control
★ TouchWake Implementation
★ Intelli-Thermal Control
★ Dynamic Sync Control
★ Simple GPU Algorithm
★ Faux Sound Control
★ Forced Fast Charge

Copernicus | # 4605 | 2014-12-02, 14:57 | Report

Originally Posted by mscion View Post

I'm not sure if the command "uname -a" even works without using busybox!

Nope, it doesn't. (Just installed the Jackpal terminal emulator and tried it.)

Originally Posted by

To make android tolerable you need to root and install busybox.

Ok, well, but doesn't this kind of answer your original question? If you're doing this much work just to make Android tolerable, just how "Android" is your Android to begin with?

Presumably, a more GNU-like distribution (or, for that matter, pretty much any normal Linux distrubution, GNU-like or otherwise) wouldn't require a whole lot of tinkering and package manipulation to be "tolerable".

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mscion | # 4606 | 2014-12-02, 15:30 | Report

Originally Posted by Copernicus View Post

Nope, it doesn't. (Just installed the Jackpal terminal emulator and tried it.)

Ok, well, but doesn't this kind of answer your original question? If you're doing this much work just to make Android tolerable, just how "Android" is your Android to begin with?

Presumably, a more GNU-like distribution (or, for that matter, pretty much any normal Linux distrubution, GNU-like or otherwise) wouldn't require a whole lot of tinkering and package manipulation to be "tolerable".

So is, for example, the command "uname" part of the GNU porfolio of software? I obviously need to learn more about this. Anyways, I have no problem with tinkering in that tinkering is part of the fun, although perhaps masochistic! Actually, what I have described is pretty routine for folks that play with Android. Also, many folks on these threads, despite starting with a more GNU-based distribution, do a heck of a lot of tinkering to make their phones "tolerable"! At least I did with the N900. I'm neither pro or against android. It just so happens that the best overall hardware has android on it so I use it. But believe me, I'm delighted Jolla is around.

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juiceme | # 4607 | 2014-12-02, 16:07 | Report

@tigerroast & @endsormeans nailed it pretty much down, but I sill want to give my 2c on top of that.

Indeed, Android has different library collection than your standard GNU environment, which leads to pretty different userland. Android kernel is full Linux kernel though, so you can say that it is a sort of Linux distribution, only very far from your standard distribution models.

You can port a lot of existing CLI software to it with (mostly) minimal effort though, there exists a wrapper thingy for that in the Android SDK. However anything that would like to run in X is not usable.

The limitation of compiling&running X applications is also present on SFOS, but that differs again from Android as it is a true GNU userland distribution where all things CLI compile almost without modifications. Running X applications would be possible on SFOS with some tweaking as has already been demonstarted by @javispedro.

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mscion | # 4608 | 2014-12-02, 17:51 | Report

Originally Posted by endsormeans View Post

"Android doesn’t include the GNU C Library (glibc) , nor does it include all of the GNU libraries you’d find on a typical Linux distribution. It also doesn’t include an X server like Xorg, so you can’t run standard graphical Linux applications."
In a nut shell.....it ain't gnu. tigerroast says it aptly...n900 is day to android night. n900 is faaaaarrr more gnu-ey than android.

now chrome os that is a slightly different shade of turtle.

"Chrome OS is closer to standard desktop Linux distributions so you can use developer mode to install the missing Linux desktop software."

little better.

Thats interesting. Is there a cellular device that uses Chrome?

Kangal | # 4609 | 2014-12-19, 16:34 | Report

Cyanogen has joined the dark side:
http://www.engadget.com/2014/12/18/m...anogen-yureka/

So Cyanogen sort of forked off from Android (AOSP) due to a vast community effort in a bid to standardize, stabilize and bring in features.

They gained a lot of momentum, and became some sort of organization.

But they waged war on the community when they tried to make their own recovery (ClockWorkMod) mandatory. Obviously they lost, because it isn't mandatory and TWRP is more popular. And PhilZ (CWM spin-off).

But all this was beginning to go south at around the time of Android 4.1.
Builds were pushed into Stable Release, despite being buggy. Longtime supported devices were getting left alone. And devices that were used to show CM's prowess were the devices with unlocked bootloaders, documentation and sources... ie the most easiest to MOD.

So it was no surprise that CM was passed by the likes of ParanoidAndroid, AOKP, VillainMOD (and lately Omni ROM) in terms of community effort and updates.

Then they announced that CyanogenMod group were going commercial as a legitimate business. Cyanogen Inc was to usher a new era for Android, by having a community developer group enter into the mainstream (a la Jolla).

All seemed butterflies and rainbows until Focal was pulled out. This was shocking news, but not so much for those keeping track of things. A dev that I personally know, Xplodwild, pulled it out when the CM founders told him NOT to license Focal with GPL and that something other than open-source was preffered. This upset him so much to abandon Cyanogen, and I agree with him 100%.

It seemed like the founders had let greed go to their head, and were eager to get rich from CM. The problem was that, it was a community effort so most (if not all) the funding then should go to the devs.... devs who do this as a hobby and not a job (and much prefer Thanks, Recognition, and maybe some new hardware to test builds on.... rather than money).

Then they announced the Oppo N1 and things looked to be turning around. But CM (stable) builds were either not coming along or were rushed, worse than before. It was a mystery why a much younger dev-group known as Omni was able to release a 4.4 ROM more than a month before CM released 4.3 for it. And remember the N1's official stock rom is CM, they hold the documentation/sources/drivers etc.

So Cyanogen Inc was looking really incompetent at this stage.

But an off-shoot of Oppo happened, its called OPO... aka OnePlus One.
They signed a contract to sell the device with CyanogenMod support worldwide, excluding China. All was going well for the 1+1, since the production issues were resolved, they announced their expansion. Great news for OPO, great news for CM, great news for open-source....right??

Well, apparently CM was in secret talks with a local Indian smartphone company called Micromax.
And when OPO announced that they had bought and were opening a retail outlet to sell the device in India, that's when Micromax made demands.

Somewhere in that time frame, C Inc, agreed to be sponsored by Micromax and provide CyanogenMod for their devices in India...EXCLUSIVELY. After these rumours floated around, Cyanogen went on record to say CM support will still come to 1+1 devices in India. And again another once/twice.

The the cat got out of the bag.

C Inc sent OnePlus a two sentence long email, telling them they will no longer be supported by CMod.
And shortly after, Micromax went to the courts and had an injunction against OnePlus to stop the OnePlus One from shipping into India.

So far, Micromax has won and the injunction stands = no OnePlus devices in India (and say bye bye to that retail you just bought). Currently OnePlus is preparing to take Cyanogen to court in California.

So not only did CM try to force the community into their ecosystem, bully devs into shady deals, failed compared to other open-source competition, tried their hand at corporate profit.... but also backstabbed the company that helped them rise into the mainstream.

Way to make an impression on the open-source community (and other oems) Cyanogen.
And thanks for giving "open-source" a bad name!

Oh, and Micromax just announced their first EXCLUSIVE device with Cyanogen support... the Yureka.
The funny part is, its not even a Micromax device, it is a Coolpad F2 just rebadged. Why is this funny? Well just recently it was found that Coolpad had installed backdoors into their devices, and labelled them as Google Play Services processes... ILLEGAL (!).

...
As of this moment, I personally won't be using CM's Trebuchet Launcher, CWM recovery, Cyanogen ROM or buy a Micromax device.

My alternatives are Apex Launcher, TWRP recovery, any oem that's responsible, any other custom rom (VillainMOD, PAC ROM, FlymeOS, MIUI, OmniROM, AOKP, PA).

Last edited by Kangal; 2014-12-19 at 16:43.

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endsormeans | # 4610 | 2014-12-19, 20:24 | Report

The bastards!
The bloody rotten bastards!
C Inc. products are now on my naughty list to never ever use...
(That's saying I ever go past nitdroid / replicant and go deep into what I consider the dark side from my maemo devices into Androidia...)