Win7Mac | # 191 | 2014-12-19, 21:18 | Report

okay... since Council elections are close and the referendum is one of the tasks for next Council period, let me revive this thread.

Most comments here indicate people are in favor of Council being disbanded. This would mean shifting their tasks and responsibilities to another group within MC eV. Naturally, this would fall into the hands of the General Meeting respectively active members. Alternatively, a working group could be established, by election or simply by volunteering. Board doesn't really come into consideration here, does it?

OTOH, the issue could as well be resolved by clearly defining/limiting Councils' responsibilities in a way that it cannot force board into anything they don't support, at least not anything that could affect their legal liability. Otherwise I don't see how we'll ever get any volunteers for board again. Just ask yourself: Would you run as candidate for board, given the above was not respected?
With my experience as HiFo director and having planned MC eV, I believe this is the way to go. It's a compromise that shouldn't hurt either side and harmonises the relation between Board and Council, which could then continue within MC eV. That's the way MC eV is designed and retaining this would minimize efforts to adjust bylaws or general regulations (of course, that'd just be a benefit but for itself should not be the reason to go this way).

I'm not very nostalgic, but I like good tradition.
My advise would be to keep Council, make good use of it and to not strain board resilience.
I'm staying out of either body in order to convey and to make sure we will have the broadest consensus possible.
Unfortunately, we can't please everybody, but if concerns arise, they should of course be considered.
MC eV regulations unlikely are perfect and this is our opportunity to improve them. Critics are welcome.

Please also note my and Woodys' posts above.
Let's make this referendum a strong plebiscite.
Peace

Wikiwide | # 192 | 2014-12-20, 01:28 | Report

Ok... I dislike commenting on highly polarised, politicised topics, but my opinion is: keep the Council. I don't see a meaningful difference between Council and "a working group ... established, by election or simply by volunteering".

Besides, I am not sure how to contact Hildon Board aka e.V., and in which cases it should be contacted, if any. At the same time, I can find Council members at IRC, meeting regularly.

And, doesn't the Council organise Coding Competitions, from time to time?

Best wishes.

Win7Mac | # 193 | 2014-12-20, 01:35 | Report

HiFo Board: board[at]hildonfoundation[dot]org
MC eV Board: board[at]maemo[dot]org

Win7Mac | # 194 | 2014-12-22, 02:24 | Report

Legally, it's not. If council wants to be external, there's no way it could overrule General Assemblys' decisions.
It also affects libility issues.

Board recruits and gets elected by active members.
As stated repeatedly, this is a legal reuirement.

That's exactly why I suggested to define/limit Council role/resposibility rather than to abandon or exclude it.

PS: updated wiki

Estel | # 195 | 2014-12-22, 05:59 | Report

I'm all for disbanding Council and establishing a volunteer's working group that get it's task (the ones that aren't obsolete, that is). The major problem with elected Council is that being elected given too strong (perceived, especially by Council members) mandate for "mundane" tasks that Council does.

It is the same with some democracies where president have only representative "powers" but gets elected - constant "power struggle. Yea, I know that it depends on Councilors elected - some don't get wrong ideas that being elected in voting gives them any more power that they should have - still, we should eliminate flaws in system, and powerless council with mandate of being elected is flawed (by) design.

Also, the Council name have accumulated (not for everyone, but I think that for many people) so much negativity, that even the name itself is a joke by now. We should erase it from future of Maemo, and replace it with respect work group(s), IMO.

/Estel

juiceme | # 196 | 2014-12-22, 08:23 | Report

Well, how would you select the people who are to do the general housekeeping tasks, then? I see elections being a good thing since that should help that people who get elected will have support, and hopefully be responsible about the tasks taken.


The past division in the Council should be just anomaly, I hope. And the difference of opinion centered on one thing really so I think there'll be no such power struggles any more.

Estel | # 197 | 2014-12-23, 02:38 | Report

Exactly, like you choose moderators for TMO or tech staff - volunteers with correct skills, assigned by Board (or accepted by general assembly or whatsnot), not elected.

General rule of thumb is that for such tasks, you assign people with correct skills, not the ones that just want to do "something". Ironically, most people interested in doing humble housekeeping tasks doesn't bother to go through some elections, promoting themselves as candidates, etc. At the same time, you're likely to end with 5 vocal Councilors, that are good at doing 20% of "more glamorous" housekeeping, a no one to do the 80% rest, especially, if some of it require specific skills.

Think of it - it would be silly to ELECT every cleaning gentleman/lady in your building, right? Sure, you can choose between few offers, but ELECTION with CAMPAIGN for housekeeping? Seriously?

/Estel

reinob | # 198 | 2014-12-23, 09:18 | Report

Which is what I said. I understand it's a legal requirement. But I also understand that the role of the GA does not quite fit in this community.

Not everyone here will want to (or be allowed to) become a member of the e.V.

So as long as the Council represents the community "at large" (i.e. not only the e.V. members) it cannot be integrated into the e.V. Which brings us, again, to the potential conflict between the Council and the GA, as the Board is bound to execute both, but Council and GA will only have a (small) overlap.

juiceme | # 199 | 2014-12-23, 11:19 | Report

I grant the "not all will want to" part but AFAIK "everyone is allowed to"
Can you prove me wrong?

reinob | # 200 | 2014-12-23, 13:31 | Report

Admittedly far-fetched, but I bet a few 13-year olds exist who would be interested.

Plus,
Which, notwithstanding that German is not my mother tongue, means that the Board can kick anyone out. There's enough animosity among a number of members here that this can turn into a non-hypothetical scenario.

Plus I have no clue if some higher-ranked German (or even EU) law prevents non-EU citizens or North-Koreans or **** for all I care from becoming members, passive or active, of an e.V. There's probably 3 books the size of my house dealing with these aspects, but I'm not going to be the one looking for that.

Re. **** I was going to add something along the lines of how some (minority of) Germans are speaking out (read: puking) their minds about some religious and/or cultural aspects which don't quite affect me but piss me off nonetheless.